Afternoon all ~ I have a question that I would love everyones ideas on. I am 7 months pregnant with twin boys. I just can't wait to introduce them the the BWCA. My question is " At what age would you bring children into the BWCA? For how long? Also do you have any helpful hints on camping with kids." Thanks much and paddle on :)

I know my opinion differs a lot from most people on this matter but here it goes,,,,, I say wait until they can truly enjoy it. That means "they" enjoy it not "you" enjoy it. Babies belong in play pens not portages. OK,,, bring on the backlash!

pickle

Good question, I would say as soon as they have learned how to swim and have experienced no less then say 5-10 pre-BWCA trips. During these pre-trips teach your children how to camp in general and build up to the BWCA. I've seen people in the BWCA with infants, to me this is insane but thats my opinion.I don't know what these people where thinking, personally I would NEVER do this. I beleive my son was about 7-8yrs old on his first trip and by then was a very good camper(he allways wanted to start our fires)and could handle a paddle fairly well. Now he's 16 and speaks of his own trips to the BWCA. Interested in what others say about this.

I think waiting until the kids are at least potty trained would be my minimum age. This cuts down on a lot of waste that you would have to pack out. ICK! ! ! (full diapers weigh more and take up more pack space)

Like anything else, it depends on what your kids are into, what they like and how they behave themselves. My little guy has been paddling with me for a couple summers on a local lake. He just turned three so we'll see how things go this summer. When I feel he's a "big boy" and can listen and sit still enough he'll be more than welcome on my trips. Just make sure your first time in a canoe and camping with the kids isn't in the BW.

I know some have brought their kids up in diapers but that's just not my cup of tea.

That being said, I took my daughter on her first trip last year when she was nine. My only regret is that we didn't start going 5 years earlier. You can do a real easy "kid" trip. Just remember if you bring the kids set your standards to their level of travel, don't push them too hard. I let my daughter pick out food, we brought a few games and she had her own pack with "her stuff" in it. Including pajamas, blanket, etc.

Hope that helps a little bit.

I know you will get a lot of varying opinions. It comes down to you knowing your kids best and keeping their best interest in mind. I do know that the kids do not join you on your trip, but rather you facilitate their trip.

Personally I feel that kids should be out of diapers and if they don't swim, at least be comfortable in water. Other opinions will vary.

For me, I gave my kids a lot of outdoor experiences like family car camping, day fishing excursions, day paddles, picnics, hikes, etc. All were family friendly. I kept the BWCA to myself until my kids asked to go. For my son it was when he was 12. my daughter, who is now 15, has no desire to go. Maybe some day, but not now. Fair enough I say. We all have our own interest and I am not going to force mine on her.

Don't get me wrong, she likes camping, but she likes it in a developed campground. She likes kayaking on the lake. She likes hiking on developed trails. But no desire for anything more rugged.

It would probably be good if the kids could walk on their own accord or at least wear a life jacket that is secure. Other than that, I'm not sure if there is such a thing as too early. Obviously it is a personal choice of the parent and certain measures will need to be taken to ensure that all have a good time. That said, I have been backpacking with my infant son at 2 months old and he was a happy baby. I will probably wait until he is 2 or older before he goes to the BWCA. I really like having him and my wife with on vacations and, as long as he keeps having fun, it is imperitive to me that he be included whenever it is remotely practical for me to include him on the outdoor trip. More responses here:

I know a few kids that are 35 years old that I would never consider bringing on a trip.

Maddog - yeah I know some of those "kids".

WOW great thoughts. Thanks so much and keep them coming. This is an interesting topic. I would agree they NEED to know how to swim and basic camping skills. Car camping it is :) Thank you so very much for your time in replying to this post. This is very important to me. Take care.

I s'pose it just depends on the kid. I had many great trips with my oldest son beginiing when he was 6. Just the two of us. First trip Lake One to Insula. He couldn't really help paddle at all. I just warned my wife that if it was windy we wouldn't come out on the specified day.

I started my second son at age 4 and he did great. Just along for the ride of course. With kids I fish little, let them paddle if they want to, we play, we swim, we read, we nap. It's great. I am taking two 7-year olds this summer. One of them mine and the other one is my son's friend. I never let them out of my sight and they wear whistles all the time. I have few rules other than no silly horseplay that could get them hurt. The other boys dad is coming too but he has never canoe camped before.

I took my oldest son car camping at 2 weeks old. All 3 boys have been hiking and camping and paddling on easy trips from an early age. But for the BWCA I would at least make sure diapers were no longer necessary. My first BWCA trip was when they were 15, 13 and 9. However, I did start taking them on week-long Ozark river trips (no portaging) at age 10. They had to be old enough to paddle bow for a 12 - 15 mile day, be able to do some draws and prys for navigating through current and help with camp chores before I wanted to take them on a week-long excursion.

I would definitely start the BWCA trips earlier, but it is 18 hours driving one way from Nashville and for lots of reasons (limited budgets, vacation schedules, job changes, wife's hesitation), we didn't start going to the BWCA earlier. However, we have alwyas led an outdoor lifestyle, so even though we didn't get to the BWCA early on, they definitely had many other wilderness experiences to store up in their memory banks, to develop outdoor skills and most of all, to spend real quality time with me.

sm67....CONGRATS on twin boys!!! Your definitely getting some great advice here and I enjoy reading what others have to say!! I guess from my perspective I grew up in the bw, of course we also live in ely, so it's easier for our family. My parents took us everywhere in the woods with them partially because babysitters were too expensive at the time and also because there never seemed to be enough just family time so the best escape was just to get out there and enjoy each others company away from it all! I'm not for sure just how old I was for my first trips but i know i was young , i believe my younger brother was just a month old. My dad was "super man" in our eyes the way he packed and carried everything plus an aluminum canoe and when us kids got tired on a portage he would bring all the gear to the end then come back and carry whoever he could not convince to walk the rest of the way. I have a baby boy that'll be 1 in the end of summer and i plan on camping quite a bit this summer, although i don't think i have the energy or desire to go as far as my parents went our first years of life. I sure am impressed when i look back now at all the work they did just to get us to the best fishin spot and quiet camp sites away from everyone else!!! I think you will know when your kids are ready for a bw trip but i think that if you go before they actually know whats going on be prepared for most likely a bit more "work"!!! Not sure how much wilderness experience you have but you may want to read up on some safety precautions too. .... and also if you go while your kids are infants....think of things like bug bites , allergies, having plenty of fresh filtered water all those "little" things that in the excitement of going you may not think of. Congratulations again...how wonderful a gift children are!!!

i took my grandson out for his first bwca trip last fall. he was 6 years old and he had a great time. just he and i and i dont think there's anybody else i'd rather go with from now on (dont tell tina i said that!) :o)



devyn and i have been camping since he was 3 years old and i agree that the kids need some car camping and campground experience before taking them into the real wilderness. but what an experience for them, huh?! makes me sad to think of all the kids that miss out on stuff like this but im very happy to hear so many of you want to get the kids out there.

btw devyn cant wait for our 4 day trip this year...and neither can i!

My 5yr. old son and myself went on 1 winter camping, 2 dogsled and 5 canoe trips this year. 1 was a week long trip on dogsled, 2 were five day trips in canoe and the rest were weekends. He has been doing outdoor stuff since he was born (wife took him snowshoeing daily in Grand Teton N.P. as an infant to lose her baby weight). The key is to remember that little ones cannot move as fast or go as long without stopping. Allow lots of piddle time and include them in packing and prep as well. Keep them in their life jackets on shorter portages and when loading and unloading canoes. (will cushion the many falls) Remember that everything in the outdoors is new and exciting. Be prepared to stop and chase frogs, look at bugs, trees, flowers or sticks. Most of all have fun with them and ensure they do as well.

and btw this is the kind of partner i want with me on a trip...one that has no problem double pack portaging! :o)

I first took my daughter to the BWCA last summer when she was three. We stayed at a cabin with Seagull Outfitters and day-tripped all over Seagull Lake for the week. We even portaged into Alpine Lake. We had a great time and she even caught a couple bass on the ice-fishing pole (perfect size) I rigged up for her. My wife and I have car camped with her several times since she was six months old in the national parks out west and she loves it all. I am very lucky to have such an outdoor girl. I am thinking about actually doing a regular canoe trip with her this year. Perhaps Alpine or Red Rock lake for a few days to see how it goes. The only part I am a little unsure about is the portaging, since I'll have to carry everything while watching her to make sure she stays close. Like others have said, if you plan around the abilities of your kid, you should be fine.

I prefer smaller lakes also just for the safety aspect of wind or dumping the canoe. Not sure if that was stated already.

greenydd,

Two things.

Number 1 - Adorable kid!

Number 2 - Where did you get that canoe "rope" suspened seat? Very cool! I guess I could make one. Cool Idea. I've only seen the preformed plastic ones.

maddog...thanx for the nice compliment about my grandson. yeah hes pretty cute...hes definately a keeper! :o)

boy i wish i could remember where i got that seat from...ive had it for many years and couldnt even venture a guess. but i'll tell you its sure come in handy on many a trip. especially this one with devyn. when we paddled he was in the front but while we fished i wanted him close and having that seat worked out perfectly.

maddog.......i just pulled that seat down and i found a name imprinted on it. WYNN MANUFACTURING COMPANY, INC. ST PAUL MINNESOTA. who knows if there still is such a company but if you happen to look for it and find it, please let me know. im sure having a second seat might be helpful somewhere down the road.

greenydd,
Thanks for checking it out for me! I checked online and could not find anything that sounded remotely like canoe stuff. If you've ever got the time, take a couple pics and email them to me. I'd love to get a close up! Thanks again!

maddog...can i get an address for you or should i just post the pics here?

I owned a sling seat a long time ago. It was an Old Town but I just went to their webpage and it looks like they no longer have them. They only have the snap-in seats now. I did find one at Great Canadian. Look at item "e" here, or at Campmor.

greenydd,
Just click on the little mail envelope beneath my screen name.

Thanks!

It depends on the family. I brought our first daughter when she was 12 weeks old and our second when she was 6 months old. They are now 2 and 3 and the oldest has been on 5 bw trips and the youngest on 3

No easy answer here. Depends on the kid(s) and abilities.

With a young family you do not want to take chances. Safety first. The wilderness does not forgive stupid mistakes...... and things do happen regardless of all preparation.

You start early. The child must be able to swim before he/she steps into a canoe. My two children were accomplished swimmers, loved to camp (in the typical small USFS campgrounds), and could paddle (in the bow). It was easy for me to extend things that they already liked to do into a wilderness adventure.

I started my kids on short trips (no portages).....in the BWCA that would be like a typical Lake One "adventure setting" (except ours was in British Columbia). My daughter was 8 and my son 10. We used 2 canoes. My wife paddled stern with my son in the bow and I paddled stern with my daughter in bow (split up the power).

I always asked my family "what do you want to do for vacation?"....... before the words were out of my mouth the answer came back "canoe trip"....... of course that suited me just fine.

I wrote a short trip report called Saskatchewan 1993 of the way we were. Take a look at it. On those trips, I carried one fear. What if I or my wife was injured and someone had to go for help. That would mean a child stays with the injured while the other parent and child paddles out...... that is a sobering thought and worth thinking about.

My son (turned 27 on our last canoe trip) still paddles and he is my paddling buddy

Good luck, take it slow, keep your eyes open, do not push it

My daughter took her son on his first quetico trip when she was eight months pregnant, he will be going on his first carry his own pack trip when he will be two years and a week in July. He has had a year to get ready by taking day trips on Rainy Lake. A lot of comments talk about the abilities of the kids, the real question should be depends on the abilities of the group. One of the hardest things is, keep the trip in perspective to the groups skills, without putting the child at risk. I have seen parents with kids from seven to two, five of them. the two year old just turned two and was on his third trip. I have met another family of three girls and one toddler. They were so good at it, that their teenage daughters carried two of our packs on the portages because they had the time. I think newbies that are full of BS and no skill or newbies that go mental when they realize they can't turn around and go home as soon as they feel uncomfortable about something are a far greater danger and a far greater temptation for me to get mad and make them walk home.

It depends on the parents and their abilities more than the kids. Patient and firm parents who have total control at home will probably have a good experience, barring unexpected medical issues or terrible weather. Overstressed, wishy-washy parents will have a terrible experience wherever they go on vacation.

That being said, there are excellent car camping opportunities or non-portaging canoe camping opportunities in SNF where you can still have a high quality experience. For young and/or inexperienced children I personally feel that would be the smartest choice.

When I was reading a message jar on a Lake in Quetico--one of the writers was a 7 year old girl. She was on her 9th trip to Quetico (her first she counted when she was still in her mother). She talked about how they traveled to the lake on a little used portage and suggested others try it in the future as it "was a road less traveled and beautifull." I was so impressed with this young girls note and her attitude. I am sure she had been coming to Quetico even as an infant.

For me personally we won't be bringing my son until he can swim and is out of diapers. But there are obviously people more capable than I who start alot younger.

So as others have stated it depends on the parents and the child.

Tim

Being a teacher I love to see families and children in the wilderness. Some kids love it some kids hate it but they will never forget it. It might take some years before they appreciate it.
The best advice given to me on this board was to make sure it is the childs vacation. This little tid bit has saved me from pushing my son too hard. He just turned 10. I let him do most of the deciding. Do we stay here another night, do we move, fishing or swimming, hiking or paddling, he loves to be in charge of setting up the tent, and building a one match fire. We gather wood together and straighten up the camping area. I figure I am the guide. When it comes to fishing if I catch anything it is just a bonus. I told him last year the only way we eat fish if he catches them. He liked that challenge. I make sure he brings a book to settle down at night and a we play some card games before reading time.
Of course as said already safety first...

Yes, I agree with the ability of the group thoughts. When I posted my response I assumed the parent/s would do a trip within their capabilities and then maybe tone it down if they needed to for the child/children. Common sense. But then again, assumption is the mother of all .... ups.

Of all the threads I read on this site none of them get me more excited to go north than the ones about/including the kids. We are shaping our children into big people the right way. It really makes me happy.

I agree it is to each his own at what age to bring children as for myself I started bringing my three boys when they were very young ages 4,2,and 1. It is a lot of extra work for the parents but my kids have enjoyed every trip. One thing to consider is flexibility with your schedule. When they say it's time to go that means now. We ended our first trip 2 days early and car camped our way home for a couple of days because they wanted change. There's no sense in turning these trips into an endurance expedition or they won't want to go back. We learned to end when they want keep things simple and bring lots of snacks. Now my boys are 15,14, and 12 and they take an active roll in planning the trip, picking out the food, choosing the fishing, and determining the rate of travel. I even got a reprieve from carrying both canoes this year as my 15 year old did one for me now next year my 14 year old wants to give it a try soon enough I will have a complete group of pack mules and won't have to carry anything. Even with the addition of our daughter on her first trip in 2005 at age 5 we began to enjoy all the first time experiences all over again, she has decided to stay home with mom after three trips due to all the unnecessary dirt. To sum it up make it fun and you will give and be given a lifetime of enjoyment.

ya know, I didn't read any or the responses here, as everyone is different with their children, of which I have 5, they are your children, and your choices

the one BWCA rule I made for my kids was, you have to be 10 to go.

ok my reasoning.....at or around that age, they can carry a pack of the appropriate amount of weight that it is work, but doesn't "kill" them, but they still feel useful and contributing. To me that is an important lesson.

they are capable of hunting up some firewood, doing some dishes, cooking some simple meals, and many other things that say a 5 or 6 year old would not be able to do. This leaves a lasting impression...."Dad, remember when I made dinner that night on Hudson Lake on my very first trip?"

my opinion on this, is it needs to be a learning experience (but not a death march) for them. teach them to do their fair share, as everyone is expected to do, but pick up the slack since they are after all just kids

out of 5 kids, I have 4 that still go EVERY year due to the first year experience. they know there is work involved, but the rewards (stars, wildlife, peace and tranquility, companionship, fishing, seeing the fruits of their labors actually doing some good around camp, is well worth the period of time they have to work.

you are a parent, they are your children, make the call on your own expectations, however don't forget, if you bring a very small child, do you really want to wake the campers on the other side of the bay with a crying kid???
Is that fair to them???

some don't agree with my line of thinking on this, and I applaud them for that, I take them to teach them, not to do the extra work. If I have to do some extra work and they learn though, then it is all worth it. Others consider it just good family time, which can also be true.

I will always be biased on this though as one year, I was that camper on the other side of the bay

It was not fair to me

whatever and whenever you decide, though, introduce a kid to the wilderness.

I took my kids when they were 4 and 7 for the first time...lots of work but dang they had fun and couldn't wait to go back. LOTS of work, an extra eyeball per parent would have been great. You aren't really there for yourselves at this point as most parents already understand. Well, you are but...it's not much different than being home IMO.

We realized by first luck that the campiste you choose is everything. The site we used when they were young was a little bay site on Lake one just after the turn and through a series of islands...left hand side, one or two sites in.

Perfect place for kids...they had a nice protected bay as a playground where they could fish, catch turtles and frogs. We did five days and they didn't want to leave.

We used that site and an island site in Lake One three times in those years and then ventured into tougher trips.

Last fall I went back that way and further into the numbered lakes for an easy trip..never had been back into those lakes and had fun..no kids this time.

Started 'em out at 6. At 10 my oldest knew the routes & ran the motor.

Now at 12 he's gettin' close to going alone but first he needs to get proficient at carrying the canoe (90lbs.), motor & gas pack.

i took my daughter to Brule lake to avoid the portages..she was
around 6--7--that was almost 20 years ago so i'm a bit fuzzy
on how old she was..i think she only went to make me happy as she
never asked to go again..she liked day trips on the St Croix so
it was not the canoeing but the 3B's--bug--bears--bathrooms..
in the BWCA i have seen babys in canoes..one was in a little
"boat" made from a Thermarest sleeping pad..and at the Prairie
portage a lady was breast feed her little one..and at the carry
into Argo lake someone left a dirty diaper..so they are out there.

Congratulations! What a great way to get a quick start (or quick additions) to your family. My kids are on the other end of the spectrum and we're looking at being empty nesters in a year. My wife and I honeymooned in the BWCA in '82 and some of our greatest family memories are framed there. Since they're moving on to their own lives, I wonder every year if it will be the last time the kids will be able to go with us. If you are new to this parenting thing you'll soon find out that the reason young children want to go camping is to be with you. And for preschoolers they will not distuinguish between the BWCA and camping at a state park. All they know is that they'er there with mom and/or dad, there's a tent, a campfire and the other stuff that goes with camping. At that age, our need for them to experinece wilderness is greater than their capaciaty to understand it. We did a lot of camping with our kids when they were little but we waited until they were 10 and 12 before going to the BWCA. While I don't regret not taking them when they were in preschool, if we were to do it over again we would not have waited until they were that old. Our younger son was ready before our older daughter so in our case maybe when he was 7 or 8 with her a couple years older. That said, if you keep it simple you can bring any age kids on a scaledowned trip. Best of luck!

I started my daughter base camping from Sawbill at age 9. It was a pretty good age to do this. I believe I would have started earlier if my wife also had any interest.

As a side thought, I live close to Lebanon Hills Regional Park in the Twin Cities. I've noticed that they have a canoe route through the park with marked portage trails. I've never done this, but with real young children this might be a good way to get them used to whole canoeing/portaging experience.