Just curious what the youngest age kids people have taken to the BWCA. My wife is expecting, and although we would like to push the envelope of when we can resume our trips to the BWCA with the baby on board, I want to know what others feel is realistic.

Right now I am thinking that as long as they can fit in a life jacket, they will be good to go. Being able to walk would be a big plus. Of course it will not be a "normal" trip for us ever again and we will have to change our practices to make this work out, but just wondering what the youngest age people have exposed their children to the BWCA and if you would recommend it at that age.

Can't say i've ever taken a baby into the BWCA.

But I think my first trip was a little before my second birthday, and I'm here to tell the tale.

Go for it.

They make some really good life jackets for babies, ones that are pretty much little baby life rafts... Can't say I know who makes them though, I've just seen them.

A point to remember, your child will remember the trip and either be hooked for life or turned off but just that... what he remembers!

Things to consider:
1. Time of year... Bugs love to eat kids!!! And many bug sprays are not to be used on the very young!
2. Length of trip... 3 days of roughing it may seems short to you, but a long time to the very young! On another board someone was asking advice about taking a 2 yr old on a 2 week trip!!
3. Make it short... one or two short portages and stay close to the entry point to be able to leave if you need too!
4. Make it interesting... Take the time to make the trip interesting to them, whatever that takes!

There are many other things to consider as well... but in short if you bring a child that young into the wilderness be ready to make a lot of sacrifices... the trip will be more about them... than about you

Children that young will generally not remember whether it was the BWCA or the YMCA... in other words it might be best to start small at the local campground and prepare the child for the experience rather than just diving into the wilderness...

Bruce

Also... remember the leave no trace!! If your child is in diapers they have to be carried out! Could add a little bit to the journey out, depending on how long you stay in....

Bruce

You're not going to like this ... but I didn't take my son until he was 13. You'll do what you want, but for me I can't imagine the hassle of an infant. I know people that take young ones, but for me, I would just hate it! All the attention; all the care; special food; ... DIAPERS!

What I did was take my kids car camping, and hiking, and canoeing, and fishing, and other outdoor outtings, but no BWCA trips. My wife would watch the kids when I went to the BW. I'd watch the kids when she went to New York. Then we'd all do the family camping trip.

I did take them to SNF Campgrounds and even an overnight canoe trip outside the BW. I decided I wouldn't take my kids to the BW until they asked to go. My son was 13 when he asked. My daughter has no desire to go. Life is too short to make her do things she doesn't want to do. She does do Girl Scout camp every year and is a Counsellor in Training. Next year she is elligible, and plans to apply, to be a hired, regular Girl Scout Summer Camp Counsellor. Still, she has no desire to go to the BW.

Another requirement I had is that the kids be able to swim. Sure we all wear PFDs but things happen. One year my son accidently sort of skied down a slippery slope of granite and right into deep water. I laughed. He laughed. Neither of us would if he wasn't able to swim.

My two cents -- Give your kids lots of outdoor experiences. Help them develop outdoor skills. Take them to the BW when they're ready. Don't spoil the BW for yourself. I know I just plain wouldn't have gone if going meant I had to take and care for an infant.

Jeez, by the time I was 13 I had soloed to Hudson Bay... Twice!

I wonder if anyone has given birth in the BWCA, you know, trying to get in one more trip before the stork visits. You always hear about women giving birth on the sides of highways, etc. There would be plenty of water to boil. LOL!

I was 11 on my first trip. I wouldn't take a kid much younger than 9. I guess a baby may be different. I'll just say It's an extra camp chore....

I'll second the thoughts above regarding tailoring the trip to the kid. But with planning and scaling back distances, you can take babies. I started BW trips in 1984 with a babe in diapers. My wife and I just couldn't handle backpacking with babies/small children anymore. We took it very easy on ourselves. We got a tow to Splash and then took the pull through to Ensign and base camped for a week. The nice thing about babies is that they don't really care where they are as long as mom and dad pay attention to them. I'm sure there are other spots that allow you to get away quickly with bearable effort. I got the idea from my older brother who was in the same situation, but with older kids, so he came up with the idea first. I'm from a family of 6 kids, and 5 of us have done the same thing with our kids. All in all, I think we've 15 kids under 5 (probably 10 of them in diapers) to the BW. The kids have all loved it and will go back as often as we can get them there - including the girls.

Just don't plan on any long days. But we've always thought even an "easy" trip to BW where you can still hear the towboats is better than camping out of your car anywhere else.

Take a look at the little one in this canoe.

My son was 5 when I first took him and he loved it and still does 8 years later. He was a handful at 5 though. Use your best judgement because you know your child better then anyone else here. Good Luck.

Priceless! What a great shot Zig!

my son Brady was 9 months old on his first trip to the BWCA. We took a family trip to Insula in 1988. We had 4 boys along ranging in age from 9 months to 8 years old. The secret was a nice sand beach campsite and a rope swing over the water.

Everyone should know that baby picture came from a Canadian web site called Blazing Paddles
I am not promoting them, just found it to be an interesting site. I also built my reflector oven from their free plans.

Ok. So here's the posting that finally gets me kicked off this board. But the question was asked, so here's my reply:

The BWCA is no place for infants.

1. What would happen if the canoe tipped?
2. What if the baby became ill or injured and needed medical help fast?
3. What if something happened to Mom and Dad?
4. What if a major storm blows through camp?
and on and on and on....

The BWCA is a wonderful wilderness for those with the wherewithal and ability to make the informed choice to tackle an experience where he or she can be entirely dependent upon themselves for their own survival.

This universe of people includes many adults; certain adolescents; select children (with adult guidance); and absolutely zero infants.

A wilderness experience is wonderful. The health and well-being of an infant is much more important -- the most important responsibility a parent has in the world. To subject an infant to the inherent dangers of a wilderness experience such as in the BWCA is irresponsible, self-indulgent and careless.

Save the first trip until at least the youngster can carry a pack, cast a line, right himself/herself in a canoe, swim independently to shore, hike a mile, and enjoy the challenges and beauty of the experience without taking on risks that he or she is in no way able to manage or mitigate.

The BWCA is not a place to bring an infant.

I'm not looking for boos or cheers here. I just need to express an important side to this serious issue.

Be afraid everyone, be scared of everything! We've only raised kids in the woods for however many tens of thousands of years we've been on this planet.

They are very vulernable- so don't you dare put them in an automobile! Those things are dangerous.

And don't pick them up, you may drop them.

Also, don't ever send them to daycare, they may get sick! Or even worse, they may get a plastic block stuck in their ear!

Thanks for all your input. Even nolanbunch. Despite a little heckling from others, I'm glad you shared your opinion. I'd like to hear even more from others.

And once again, we have reached a concensus - The first time a kid should go to the BWCA is somewhere between 9 months old and 13 years old (or never). In other words, everyone has to decide for themselves.

I figured there would be as many answers for this question as people on the board - but there are more people on the board I'd like to hear from still...

I think a really good point nolanbunch is making is that professional medical attention isn't readily available. You're traveling in a primitive area where you are hours from medical assistance, not minutes. A 1 year old can't tell you what's wrong, and you don't have the convenience to see a doctor just to make sure they're OK.

Great points of view from everyone.

Taking an infant into the BWCA or the Q is a definite risk but everyday life is fraught with risks. You, as the parents, have to do the proper research and planning to reduce the risk to the lowest possible level. It seems you're on the right track so far. After you have reduced the risk as much as possible you then ask yourself if you're comfortable with the result. Only you can answer that question. I myself could live with the risk but not with the extra workload required to care for an infant out there. One of the reasons I canoe trip is to relieve stress and an having an infant or toddler along would bring about the exact opposite result in my case. Have a great trip if you decide to go and let us know how it turns out.

We are taking our kids in this year for the first time ages 8,6,and 4. We cant wait. Wish we had started with the oldest one sooner but better now than later we feel. I think it is a comfort level with some people. We are comfortable with taking our kids in. Some people are not, thats ok. Maybe its because of my tripping exp that gives me this comfort level, whatever, I just think this is one of the greatest opportunities I have, as a father,to introduce the canoecountry wilderness to my chidren. We only have so long to really make a diff in our kids lives before they are off on their own. They grow up too fast!!

cedarboy

Here Here Cedarboy! Well said

Okay... A touchy subject for many here! I appreciate everyones viewpoint and Nolan you will never be kicked off here for stating what you feel! We all may get some (hopefully) good natured ribbing and that interaction is what makes this board as good as it is!
I made a statement above about how I feel about bringing the very young into the Wilderness! And I stand by that... but I also have to say I have never had "babies" as a matter of fact I did not have "kids" at all until I married their mother two years ago! Now I have 4 teenagers!! And on their first trip in... I learned a bunch!! I love the wilderness as much as anyone here!!! and I want to share it with my family!!
The thing to remember here is that all parents are different, what I may see as a dangerous situation, or potentially dangerous situation someone else may not!! I am learning that from my wife!! All of us have different opinions on various things concerning child raising. I think the most important thing is using common sense! That said I will stop about raising children!

Take care and have a great weekend... take your kids fishing this weekend!

Bruce

Someone once said that the 2 easiest things to do in life are,"Spending someone elses money and raising someone elses kids".
See you on the water.

cedarboy

I've done it as I said, BUT I would never do it again. It was just a hassle. As Arkansasman said the whole diaper /leave no trace issue is too much to bear.

nolanbunch,
I find it somewhat peculiar that you would be worried about being blacklisted because you expressed infant safety issues, yet you had no concerns about booting your mother-in-law off the highest cliff in Northern Mn. LOL

I'm not sure I'd want to portage out the used diapers....ugh! But, that being said, my kids have been hitting the canoe trails since age 4 and loving it. Their first trip was outside the B-dub, in case no one was having a good time- since it was their dad's first trip as well. After that I just planned it like a normal trip, pushing a bit harder each year as their skills and strength increased.
As long as they can swim and understand that fire is hot, I'd have no problems taking a youngster. With anyone under 12, it's a good idea to have 2 adults perhaps, in case there is an injury or illness affecting one of the big people. Back in the day, I was a canoe camp counsellor, and did have to paddle out once to get help for the other counsellor when she got injured, so it does happen ocasionally.

I'll just toss this one out there as another consideration.

I know a family that took/take their kids from a young age. When the kids were learning to walk they had them in their bike helmets. I guess they were glad they did a couple of times when the kids took headers into the slippery granite.

Likewise they had knee and palm pads during the crawling period. I guess they decided that after number 1 child had bloody, raw knees from one trip.

Cowdoc:
You've got me totally wrong. I'm not interested in booting my mother-in-law off the highest cliff in the BWCA; just the most scenic one. I'm not an animal, you know.

Wouldn't a good time to bring them in be when they are old enough to say they want to go? Plus why put them at risk when they will never remember it anyway,,, just so you have a cool picture to show your pals of you and your baby in a canoe? (to compare the BWCA with picking them up or putting them in a car is a horrible comparison if you're trying to make a point) Introducing kids to the BWCA is great but babies and infants,,, come on.

I don't think it is anyones idea to take their young children into the woods strictly for the pictures, ditchpickle! It's an awful lot of work for that...you could just take them out on a local lake and fake it, if that were your motivation.

It's a personal choice to be made by the parents of the children in question, and as long as they take reasonable precautions, I don't have a problem with it. Besides, environment in early childhood certainly has an influence on development, and I'd be more comfortable with the woods as that influence, rather than the mall!

I'm sorry for ruffling your feathers dogwoodgirl. I'm just stating my opinion as I thought that is what this site if for. I just believe that babies belong in play pens not on portages. I'm all for kids growing up in the woods rather than the mall as I spent my childhood on the shores of Burntside Lake in Ely and I wouldn't change a thing. However that is different that exposing "babies and infants" to the challenges and risks of the remote wilderness!

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No harm done! If I were to take small kids, I'd basecamp somewhere like Sawbill....and if that were my only chance to get out in the woods that year, that's what I'd plan to do. I didn't, my partner didn't grow up canoeing, and I didn't get him hooked until the kids were 4 and 8. They went every year after that, though. The one year that we left them home, my son fixed us with a stern look when we got back and said he'd swim behind the canoe rather than stay home ever again!

My mother recently gave me an old baby picture in an orange Timberline tent. On the back it says I was 4mos.

A few years ago I was with some college friends on Lac La Croix during a storm. Trees were falling all around us, the next day we went around to check out how others had weathered the storm. On one particular site, I saw a huge birch that had fallen. Its branches were barely touching a dry square of dirt where a family had pitched their tent the night before. I was amazed at how lucky those folks were. The only other thing that I saw in that campsite was a diaper.

I could only imagine what my wife would have said to me in that situation!

The one thing I haven't seen in this thread about babies in the BW

consideration for the campers on the next site when the baby wakes up crying in the middle of the night.....fact of life babies cry, its one third of what they do. personally I did not like waking up to crying at o'dark thirty in the morning when I was unfortunate enough to camp across from a group with baby.

for what its worth, my children (all 5 of them) waited till 10 to go. Seemed like a good idea to wait till they could share the work (some) and remember it all......3 of the 5 still go every year on one of my 2 trips

my 2 cents

Nice forum. As a parent of 9, 7, and 3 year old boys and having grown up going to the Quetico are this has been my obsession for several years. How do I get back, bring my kids, expose them to the magic, and make it work. I brought my oldest when he was 4 and for him that was too young. My middle guy was 6 on his first trip and it was awesome. My biggest journey over the years was with my attitude and my expectations. Every parent has to be insightful and clear on what the responsibilities are.

I am not sure about waiting for them to ask to go, because if they have not been there they may not know what they are missing so encourage the interest without pushing,(that in itself is a debate as long as this one) and when I say this don't think I am telling anyone they are wrong or how to raise their kid I am not a parent and wouldn't do that even if I was, but I can share my thoughts as someone who grew up in a family that played together (never went to the bwca)we boated camped fished hunted and snowmobiled as far back as I can remember. I have a picture of my dad giving me a ride around the yard on a snowmobile at 3 days old. what age you bring the kids into the bwca is secondary to bringing them with you whatever you may be doing that they are able to do and when possible tailoring it to allow for them. I am 25 married and still do much of these with my family and now my wife who will be going on her first bwca trip in June she comes from a great family who spends time together on vacation at the lake or having game night at home or hiking once in a while but for the most part was not an outdoor family. Her father once noticed and pointed out after getting to know us how my dad and I never had to say "Hey lets think of something to do together" because we didn't need to. I didn't even think of it that way until he said that. I would not have it any other way so if you get nothing else from this long boring post I admire your desire to bring your kids
That may be a little off topic and I apologize for being long winded but I would say as young as you both can have fun and be safe I also think they should be able to swim for a good distance without a life jacket I would guess this would be about 3,4,5 or so

Well for me, I took my twins into the BWCA when they were 3. They carried their own backpack full of their clothes and books. I took them to Lake One entry so there wasn't a lot of portaging. I am a firm believer that the earlier you start your kids out in the wilderness the more they will appreciate it when they grow older

I'm not saying that three years old is too young as most would not consider them babies but just out of curiosity,,, why would they appreciate it more if they started at three rather than six or eight. In fact I think it could work the opposite and be a bad experience they may not want to repeat.

I have to agree with ekffazr on this one....

"consideration for the campers on the next site when the baby wakes up crying in the middle of the night.....fact of life babies cry, its one third of what they do. personally I did not like waking up to crying at o'dark thirty in the morning when I was unfortunate enough to camp across from a group with baby."

:)
Sandy

Keeps the bears away.

Babies crying...same could be said for dogs barking.

Wow Sandy you must have acute hearing! LOL

I just think the younger you introduce children to the wilderness the more used to it they will become. I taught my kids to respect the wilderness. It shows now that they are 17, they are very much into making sure the site is better than we left.

I have seen way too many kids have no respect for the wilderness and they litter and are abusive to the wilderness. Makes me wonder what wilderness ethics their parents taught them!

I personally would be a little nervous taking a baby in to the wilderness but, hey, more power to ya if you can do it!! I'm taking my 5 year daughter into the woods for the first time, in June and it should be very interesting. She is very much a girl and bugs and her don't mix, like I said this should be very interesting! I was blessed to be able to experience my first trip when I was 9 years old and I look forward to he trip every year sometimes fitting in two trips. I think every child needs to experience the peacefulness and clear water at least once. City air tends to clog ones mind sometimes, but then decide never to do it again or return every year.

Babies/Toddlers present different issues than older kids and adults do so my thought is that planning is key in taking kids camping (or anywhere else). My wife and I chose not to take our son into the BWCA as a baby. Not because he was a baby as much as the fact that we just didn't feel like we were equipped or prepared to handle all the baby issues (diapers being at the top of the list). If you plan and prepare and don't take unnecessary risks, take your baby, relax and enjoy.

Do the right thing. Don't take a baby.

Right on Bannock...
Cub scout or Boy scout age 8-11 maybe....

I can't see too many people carrying out a bag full of diapers and I hate to say it but i would think alot of them would get left to linger for years and years in the BWCA underbush..

So I think the kid should be able to enjoy and help to conserve nature...whatever age that may be for each individual....you all know your kids....

Woodpecker

Everyone is free to do what they want, but for myself, I did not start taking kids until they could swim. My dad would not let me go until I could swim. One of my friends drowned when he was eleven, lets just say his parents have NEVER recovered from that experience. Babies in the BWCA, answer this, Who's needs are being met?

My view is real close to Nolanbunches...I don't think the B-Dub is a place for small children. 8-10, maybe if they are mature and are very comfortable in an outdoor setting, but any younger than that and I think you are really pushing the limits and asking for trouble.

Besides, I went to Florida/Disney 3 times before I was 6. I can recall bit and pieces of it, but the majority of my memories are hazy mixes of pictures and family stories. If you are going to take infants, even young children, realize that you are taking them for your pleasure and they may not remember the trip much.