The thread on hypothermia reminded me that this is a good time to review open water canoe recovery techniques.

Open water canoe recovery

Good to have this brought up. Something too many people, especially solo paddlers, ignore.

If you paddle solo and think you can get back in your canoe if it dumps in deep water (and you haven't practiced it a lot) then you're wrong.

Pick a hot summer day when it's too hot to paddle and find some little pond to practice dumping your boat and find out how to empty the water and re-enter. It's actually fun (except for the bruised shins) and feels great on a hot day.

Then once you get to where you can do it in calm water imagine doing it with a heavy wind and whitecaps with gear (and dog) floating all around you and 50 degree water. It will definitely make you think twice about open water crossings next time you consider taking a chance.

Alan

i solo, i know i couldnt get back in.

I could get back in - in knee-deep water; otherwise, I'm pretty sure you're right, Alan, especially in late Sept clothing.

quote kanoes: "i solo, i know i couldnt get back in."

Oh, come on! You can do it. Think back to your boy scout canoe training.

Solo re-entry

They sure picked some realistic conditions for those demonstrations!

quote SourisMan: "They sure picked some realistic conditions for those demonstrations!"

I agree.

quote OBX2Kayak: "

quote kanoes: "i solo, i know i couldnt get back in."

Oh, come on! You can do it. Think back to your boy scout canoe training.

Solo re-entry "

He barely got back in with the tandem canoe. I'd like to see that done with a Magic and a little heavier guy. In Boy Scouts we had the big ol' Aluminums and we were 100# lighter. :) Not saying things can't be done. But some of us need to have a plan B and crossing vast open water alone is taking quite a risk.

Try it with a boat full of water, too!

When I was in scouts, we had to do a solo Capistrano Flip with an old Grumman to empty the water, then re-enter without assistance. Don't think I could do it with a Grumman these days. It is fun to practice with a Kevlar boat ... in August.

Solo Capistrano flip

quote awbrown: "Try it with a boat full of water, too!"

At one time (and with an aluminum canoe) I could do the solo entry as shown in the 2nd video. I was pretty good at it...... but that was then. I doubt I could do it now. If the water was cold, there would not be many 2nd chances.

The first video showed the canoes with bow and stern flotation. That makes doing that drill a whole bunch easier.

Warm water re-entry is one thing. Cold water is another.
In cold water I have a strong tendency to stay fairly close to the shore just in case. All of these years and trips I have never once dumped but with each passing year my balance is not getting any better and my ability to get back in the canoe, or make it to shore, declines.
Always have a plan and rehearse/review it with your paddling partners, but especially in the several weeks before and after ice. Our first trip this year is June 4 and I expect the water to be very cold. Rest assured we will review who does what and how if we dump.

If the water was cold would you want to waste time trying or use what time you had to get to shore the quickest way possible?

quote hobbydog: "If the water was cold would you want to waste time trying or use what time you had to get to shore the quickest way possible?"

Yes and no, I think. If you have a ditch kit of some sort on your person then perhaps the answer is yes, get to shore asap. However, if you are in the middle of the Q and there is no one around you might make it to shore and then hypothermia will do you in if the air temp is also cold. So trying to get back in the canoe might make sense if you think you need some of your gear to survive on shore.
I hope I never have to find out.

I actually have nightmares about dumping in cold water while solo. Which is why I travel very close to shore even if it requires me to go far out of the way. It's also why I choose trips on small lakes when the water is cold.

I *can* get back into a canoe by myself...in perfect conditions. I've never practiced it in big waves, though. Might be good to try. Maybe next time I'm windbound in August I'll hop in the boat, dump a short ways from shore (with the wind blowing in), and give it a try. Don't like my chances though.

In calm water I can't quite do the Capistrano flip as gracefully as the video shows with my Magic and not even close with my woodstrip Osprey (40 pounds) with no air tanks in the bow/stern. Perhaps if I had a higher flotation life jacket but even with the 34 pound magic it tends to force me underwater before I can get the stern high enough to flip it over without scooping up more water. With the Magic I have to do a strong scissor kick and throw at the end and it still ends up with more water than I'd like in the bottom.

Alan

I'm glad this discussion opened up but have to criticize the three video's referenced. None of the three clips are very representative of the actual conditions for people on this board. We will not be using high-flotation boats or wearing dry suits (both huge advantages to getting back in). We have low flotation boats that barely float when full of water, will be wearing cloths that will be extra heavy when soaked with water, and our boats will be nearly full of water after the capsize occurs (because we tip slowly from a sitting position and/or the boat will likely be partially loaded). Use what's shown on the clips only for ideas- but I doubt it'll do you any good. It didn't for me.

Here's what I've learned from hours of practice and unfortunately real-life cold water open water canoe recovery...speaking from a solo perspective.

There are three things you need to do successfully to make it work.

1) free yourself from the boat (this may be more of a challenge then your think, especially for those who use a canoe cover or kneeling with feet beneath a seat or thwart)
2) get the water out of the boat
3) get yourself back in the boat

In my practice sessions it was the second step that I struggled with. The silly C-flip would not work well enough to get enough water out of the boat. I am strong and in good shape- didn't matter. Even with a life jacket, when I did the flip there was just too much weight/too little floatation. My head was quickly pushed under the water surface. Step 3 is not possible without getting this one right. The simple solution is to have something with you to bail the water out while you float along side in the water. Your leech bucket would probably work. Don't bother with a kayaker's bailer pump- you'll need something you can handle with one hand. I refined my bailer to a "Tide" laundry soap container. Cut the bottom off and leave the cap on. You will be able to bail a lot of water fast with a nice handle that works even when you're fingers succumb to the cold water. In real life situations, I owe my life to this bailer!

OK, so with the water out of the boat now's your time to hop back in. Maybe you can do it or maybe you can't depending on your coordination and physical abilities and on your particular boat. If you can't get back in from the side, try it from the stern. In cold water you may only have one shot at this, cuz if you fail you're back to step 2 bailing and the 10-minute clock may run out on you.

Like I said in the 1-10-1 rule thread, best thing to do is practice all three steps under controlled conditions. Then you'll know how to do it or you might learn that you can't do it.

I agree with BeaV. I've tried these tricks and couldn't come close with my Royalex canoe and no air bags. It only rides with the rails about 1" above the water when dunked. Just barely enough flotation to keep it from sinking. The guys in the video's can only accomplish what they are doing because of the float bags.

The idea of a bailer is a good one and I believe it's required equipment for any canoe in Canada, along with a PFD, a floating rescue throw rope and a whistle.

quote awbrown: "I agree with BeaV. I've tried these tricks and couldn't come close with my Royalex canoe and no air bags. It only rides with the rails about 1" above the water when dunked. Just barely enough flotation to keep it from sinking. The guys in the video's can only accomplish what they are doing because of the float bags.


The idea of a bailer is a good one and I believe it's required equipment for any canoe in Canada, along with a PFD, a floating rescue throw rope and a whistle.
"

I respectfully disagree. With proper technique and practice, I know the solo Capistrano flip can be completed with heavy wet clothing on in rotten, high wind conditions. Float bags actually make it more difficult for water to drain from the upended canoe.

OBX2Kayak: "

I respectfully disagree. With proper technique and practice, I know the solo Capistrano flip can be completed with heavy wet clothing on in rotten, high wind conditions. Float bags actually make it more difficult for water to drain from the upended canoe."

It must depend on the boat and the amount of flotation provided by the life jacket. I know that when solo I have an extremely difficult time doing the C flip with my 34lb. Magic and even less luck with my 40lb. Osprey. My head is pushed under with both of them and I have to resort to a quick throw which still leaves a few gallons of water in the boat.

I think the float tanks in the stems make the biggest difference as they keep that end of the canoe from diving when you start to pick up the other. I've had my best luck with putting a paddle float between the carry thwart and stem and then inflating it. Once inflated it's wedged in place and keeps that stem floating very high. Then I swim underneath the boat and come up in the air pocket about 3/4 of the way back from the floating stem. Raise the boat as high as I can and then give a quick scissor kick and throw to flip it over. This is the only way I can get an empty boat.

Clamoring over the side hasn't been too tough in my Magic but waves and heavy wet clothes would make it much tougher.

Alan

quote OBX2Kayak:
I respectfully disagree. With proper technique and practice, I know the solo Capistrano flip can be completed with heavy wet clothing on in rotten, high wind conditions. Float bags actually make it more difficult for water to drain from the upended canoe."

I shouldn't have referred to it as the "silly C flip". I'm sure it can work for certain canoes/people combinations, but it did not work for me with my Mad River Malecite.

Mainly I just want to caution against a false sense of security thinking that anyone can get back into their canoe after a capsize.

quote BeaV: "

quote OBX2Kayak:
I respectfully disagree. With proper technique and practice, I know the solo Capistrano flip can be completed with heavy wet clothing on in rotten, high wind conditions. Float bags actually make it more difficult for water to drain from the upended canoe."

I shouldn't have referred to it as the "silly C flip". I'm sure it can work for certain canoes/people combinations, but it did not work for me with my Mad River Malecite.


Mainly I just want to caution against a false sense of security thinking that anyone can get back into their canoe after a capsize. "

I agree. Open water recoveries are something that every paddler should practice before they need it.

quote HighPlainsDrifter: "
At one time (and with an aluminum canoe) I could do the solo entry as shown in the 2nd video. I was pretty good at it...... but that was then. I doubt I could do it now. If the water was cold, there would not be many 2nd chances.

The first video showed the canoes with bow and stern flotation. That makes doing that drill a whole bunch easier."

I used to paddle a tandem canoe solo down a nearby river pretty often. I like to swim, so I'd jump out and swim with a painter in hand or mouth or something... then climb back in at one of the canoe stems to dry off and paddle a while. I'd put my arms right on the stem and one leg over the gunwale and launch myself back in - gracefully I am sure (who's watching? I'm solo!) I could do that all day back then (and yes, I'd have some bruises on my legs to show for it).

Now? Significantly heavier in person and weaker all around I am sure... that is not happening. But, I COULD likely get into a boat full of water and just paddle the full boat somewhere to a rock or island or shore. I do that every now at then near home - boat still floats when full of water, just harder to get it where you want it to go. I'm not crossing open water in those conditions, likely not even if water is warm. Usually on smaller bodies of water, or near a shoreline anyway.

Still think it's good to see how it's done. The one technique I want to try some day, is with the "stirrup" attached to a thwart. Still probably not strong enough and too heavy, but like that idea and have it in mind to do a test run when it's warm this year.

Kanoes is realistic. I like the solo re-entry techniques demoed....in a tandem boat.

Try that in a 24 inch wide dedicated solo. There is WAY less stability with a cowboy entry in a dedicated solo.

For once I totally agree with Jan.

I have seen references to a "canoe entry sling" and have always wanted to try that. The video shows a rather complicated bunch of straps, but it will give you the idea. Somewhere I read that this method could be used in a solo situation.

canoe sling entry

OK now I am getting frustrated (and worried). I tried different stirrup lengths and still could not get in my Magic. The boat just rolls and water come in over the gunnel. How does one attach the paddle to the canoe when using a kayak float?
As a side note I could only get about 60% of the water out of my magic in open water. A bailer will be a must for me.

My wife, dog and I have been doing drills the last couple of weekends. So far i can flip the boat back up right and get in first try without a hitch. The wife on the other hand really struggles but after much dilligence i can get her to flop in. The dog? No problems with her, she goes where ever i go and swims along the gunnels until i can grab her handle on her pfd and pull her in.
We are still going to keep practicing until the wife can get in by herself without my aid.

A stirrup would work for your wife probably. I'm talking as a solo the opposite gunnel rolls and swamps the boat. Will clipping packs to the opposite gunnel help during reentry? I will try again next weekend.

we had our 9 year old and 11 year old practice with the little 12 foot canoe this weekend. They were able to get in and then they even swamped it and were able to drain it and get it. Makes for a proud mom moment :)

Good stuff. Thanks.

Just so happens I was out practicing this yesterday afternoon and took a quick video

Getting the water out is the hardest part but this boat makes it much easier with large float tanks that reach all the way to the gunnels. My Bell Magic is 15lbs lighter than the boat in the video and I'm unable to completely empty it (Magic) of water when flipping because of the small factory float tanks.

Alan

I am going on my first solo in Sept. Planning to stay close to shore for the trip, and planning to take my magic to my dads pool and at least try to learn. Thanks for the video.

This brings up a great point.. . .when paddling my kayak I use a paddle float, slipping one blade in the rigging and use the rest as an outrigger. Makes re-entry easy.

For those using a double blade paddle, why could not the same thing be done? Have velcro ties on the yoke to secure one end of the paddle, use the float bag on the other.

I might try this in my Wilderness. Leave the boat full of water, use the paddle as an outrigger, then carry a kayak style bilge pump. You could pump out a canoe with one of those pretty quickly.

Leave the boat full of water, use the paddle as an outrigger, then carry a kayak style bilge pump. You could pump out a canoe with one of those pretty quickly."

A canoe holds a lot more water that a kayak and I think it would be very difficult to remain upright with a canoe full of water while both hands were on the pump, especially in any wind or waves.

I've tried a couple times to paddle a swamped canoe and it's darned near impossible. 1000 pounds of water sloshing front to back and side to side always swamps me again almost immediately on flat water. Can't imagine what wave action would do.

I think the best bet would be to empty as much water as possible on the flip and then use a bailer to scoop out the rest and re-enter an empty boat.

Alan

Thanks for the video, Alan - it was very helpful to see.

A question: were you standing on the bottom or treading water when you flipped the canoe?

Good stuff all around. Thanks BeaV for your input.

A question: were you standing on the bottom or treading water when you flipped the canoe?"

In the video it looks like I'm standing up but I could not touch bottom.

Alan

quote Alan Gage: "Just so happens I was out practicing this yesterday afternoon and took a quick video


Getting the water out is the hardest part but this boat makes it much easier with large float tanks that reach all the way to the gunnels. My Bell Magic is 15lbs lighter than the boat in the video and I'm unable to completely empty it (Magic) of water when flipping because of the small factory float tanks.


Alan"

Excellent video, Alan. Thanks.