Has any every canoed in one of the parks. I am in the initial planning stages for my next canoe trip and am considering canoeing in one of these parks.

I've done WCPP twice, never been to Wabakimi, but know many that have. WCPP has easier ingress and egress if you don't want to fly in. If you want to fly in both are wonderful places to paddle and neither one would disappoint you. You will see a few more planes in either park, and possibly boats too as some lake have lodges on them.

In WCPP if you stay south of the Bloodvien and Gammons you will limit these encounters.

Both parks are closer to a Boreal forest than the BW or Quetico, and in general the portages are wetter and flatter and shorter.

Was in WCPP in June of this year, trip report posted on this sight. Jerry is right on. If you have specific questions drop me a PM.

I want to check Wabakimi out after one more trip to Quetico. There is also Algonquin. Wabakimi like many Canadian Parks has NO access by road. You either paddle your way in, get flown in or the train will drop you off at Allanwater Bridge.

I'm really new to wilderness canoeing. Beemer01 had an opening for my first real adventure into Quetico, which was 9 days of excellence. Prior to that I did the BWCA once, Adirondacks once, Cacapon WV once and the upper and lower Potomac many times. They mostly don't qualify as wilderness.

Let me know what you find out about Wabakimi and Woodland Caribou. Those are real wilderness. I'm ready to take the dive. . . Well after a spring Quetico.

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I've taken several trips into Wabakimi...by train from Armstrong and the other from Savant Lake on the western side. I paddled out the first time, and came out by float plane the 2nd. Outfitting services are very limited and they take advantage of that (read:$$$$).

The park itself is still very primitive and there were several times we had to cut our way thru the "portage". The 2nd time, I was doing a survey for the MNR so I had a decent map...but the first time in, the map I had from the outfitter looked like it was scribbled on toilet paper while sitting on the throne.

Campsites are limited and very primitive...there were several times I wished I had packed a weedwhacker >.

Fishing: The good news is, there are sooooo few people in there, those fish act like they've never seen a lure. The bad news is there are no smallmouth if that's your fish of choice....too far north to breed or something. You'd have to "settle" for as many Walleye as your arms can stand pulling in :-).

Let me know if I can answer anything in particular.

What would need to be planned or done differently from a trip to Quetico? I'm thinking my next trip to the Q could be sort of a practice run for the W.

Obviously it's a long drive, so I would offset the cost of gas by minimizing the use of outfitters. And I would tend to pack heavier for all the what-ifs; more food, fuel, axe and saw, beefed up 1st aid kit etc. Warmer clothes?

I think the biggest difference between W and Q is ACCESS. In this respect, an outfitter can be a big help. They were very helpful in arranging our train pickups....very early from the east side (6 am)....very late from the west side (10 pm).

First nite coming in from the west side (Savant Lake) was tricky....its a class V put-in from the train...straight down the 55 degree grade from the builtup train tracks to the water....and in total darkness. We actually got an overnite booking at a fish camp off the tracks located on Lake ??? (I'll have to look this one up)...and the proprietor was waiting for us at the milemarker to help us off the train at 10:30 pm. Spent the nite in a very cozy fish cabin and walked all of 50 yards to the lake put-in the next morning.

East side pickups are much easier from Armstrong. Pickup is early morning and, tho the put-in is still class V, at least you can see where you're going.

The next biggest difference is in campsites. No great Fisher Maps w/ the little red dots showing four-star campsites. There are much fewer campsites, and when you find one, grab it quick....we made a mistake bypassing one at 5 pm thinking another will be around the corner and didn't find one until after 11pm... in the dark....in the rain...ugly nite.

I hope I don't put anyone off going to Wabakimi by these remarks...it was a totally fantastic experience. Very different from "The Q" in that it is a HUGE park and you are much more ALONE. We didn't see another party the whole time we were in..when a float plane picked us up, we were told there were only 50-some people in the park....AWESOME. Extra caution should be observed in everything you do....help is NOT just around the corner and you prob won't see another person for days.

Let me know if I can help further....Burney

Thanks for all the great info.

I just got back into canoe tripping after a 35 year absence. Used to go to the BW (late 50's early 60's) before it was created when I was growing up into MN.

I will be using an outfitter since I don't have a lot of the gear for canoe trips I am in the initial planning stages I will be getting the park mapthis week. I will look it over, search the web and talk to the outfitter about routes # days etc.

If things go right it will will be a great trip.

I also am consideering Wabakini in the future. Maybe '09. Where did you get your map(s)?

mdelljb
I am also considering 09. I am talking to an outfitter (Goldseekers)
Here is their address website and cost of the map.

http://www.goldseekers.net/html/home.html

Here is their address
Send a check for $15.00 USD to:
Goldseekers Canoe Outfitting
Box 1288 Red Lake, Ont.
P0V2M0

I used Wabakimi Outfitters out of Armstrong for the eastern put-in....and Canoe Frontier in Pickle Lake for the western trip.

Longpaddler
Does Wabakimi outfitters support WCCP also. They are on my list when I Wakakimi.

I'd be interested in comparisons between Woodland Caribou and Wabakimi. Anyone been to both and care to offer some opinions/observations?

My mistake for the earlier post about Goldseekes They are for WCCP.

Hi GrampsB...not sure if Wabakimi services WCPP or not anymore. I haven't received any flyers from them in several years. Canoe Frontier may very well fly there...I know they go to Polar Bear Prov. Park, Winisk and about 6 others.

7 guys on this thread. Just a wild idea. Let's see if we could get a bunch of us together and just do it.

1. Priorities
2. Personalities
3. Equipment
4. Money
5. Time

We have always used Goldseekers bunk house when doing the WCPP. Albert sold the business this spring, to another very nice family from Red Lake. I met Keith at canoecopia in Mad town, and he and Debbie will continue with what Albert started up there. Honest, nice, and knowledgeable.
I would recommend them whole heartedly. As for flights into the park, I it's Chimo air that you need to contact. Again, good people.
Like I stated before, both parks are equally beautiful, and both will give you the solitude you look for. WCPP is a bit easier to access is all.

Jerry

1. Priorities Fishing Solitude
2. Personalities Grampa easy going
3. Equipment Have all my own camping equip but not for canoeing
will be purchasisng all but canoe this year
4. Money Not a problem by then
5. Time Most any time starting May - Sep can only do 8 10
days out since I am from the DC area.

Priority - Wilderness
Personality - Energetic, but will move as fast as the slowest person
Equipment - SRQ 18.5 and have or will buy any equipment needed
Money - Can afford all expenses incurred by me.
Time - After May 08, 8 - 14 days

I am originally from Temple Hills, MD. I now live in KS.

June is out for me Have to go with the grandkids to Disney World

I'm just entertaining the thought to see how it would go. I won't know what actually days I can get for leave until about 60 days out.

I have been to both parks. WCPP I have paddled with Jerry R and agree with his assessment for the ingress and egress. I just got back from my second tour of Wabakimi doing survey and portage clearing for a project that a gentleman by the name of Phil Cotton is coordinating. I am doing the physical mapping of the canoe routes as the product of our work. Both parks are great but Wabakimi is more remote as far as access is concerned. There are a couple of YMCA groups out of Ely that have been in there this year and are planning to make Wabakimi an annual trip due to the fact the Quetico and BWCA are too crowded. One way to enjoy Wabakimi is to train in and paddle out. This can be done in a 12 day trip out of Allan Water to Caribou Lake. The further north of the Ogoki River watershed you go, the less people you will see thus flying in is a great option and paddle out to Caribou lake works well. Mattice Outfitters can help you out here. As for WCPP, good option as well but I wont re-state Jerry’s thoughts since he is bang on. Goldseekers is an excellent option especially with an overnight bunk stay before heading out. Great shuttle service if you need them.

Barry

Psukontaraks,

Maybe a private group thread for this potential trip, for those that might express a strong interest?

I have had WCPP and Wabakimi on my radar for some time. I'm a possible for 2008 and could definitely be in for 2009.

Excellent idea. If we find a couple of guys who are interested then we should find out what would make it a good trip in terms of gear, time, money, solitude, fishing, level of difficulty etc.

I would opt for a trial run in Quetico that simulates conditions we might find in the Big W.

I am very interested not too sure if it will 2008 but 2009 for sure

i just come over to the quetico side to search any threads on this subject. i was surprised to see it at the top. i was trying to do some research on the train thing but, i couldnt seem to get enough facts so i let it go until now. can we go with pleeeeease. we have all our own equipment
we dont take up much space
we could even ride in the trunk
never complain (unless it rains,bugs,no fish,long portages,heavy packs,etc)just kidding


seriously, we are extremely interested in goingto either one of the parks.

well, ok cheesehead, if you promise to carry the canoe and food pack over every portage.

deal, can my wife do all the cooking??

I've never tasted her cooking. Send me an e-mail (peter_sukontaraks@yahoo.com)

I have been thinking about a WCPP trip for a while since it is about the same driving time as it is to the eastern BWCA. I would love to put my name down for one of the trips, but i am trying to get a new job (and if i get it i might be seeing those that do go when they cross back into the US at customs) so i am not sure about the academy or time off timeframe, but in April if this gets brought back up or if someone drops out of a group at the last minute.. i am hopeful.

came out out of wabakimi last week from 2 weeks in-didn't see another canoe although 2 boats from outpost camps came by to see what we were about. portages on our approx. 125 mile route show very little traffic from this season. some portages that phil said he cleared 2 years ago had grown back in and we never did find a couple others and lined those sections. i used home brewed fugawi maps to get around and that worked out fine. we dumped twice in fast water through some extraordinary bad luck and i would agree with the comment that this is one of those places that you don't want to fool around like that. i have never gotten a good explanation of why this park doesn't get more use-some people say that canoe traffic is actually decreasing although one outfitter in armstrong said they had a good season. when phil and friends complete their mapping project and make it available to the public the interest level in this park may increase. i did see jim pearson in armstrong and although he is only providing shuttle and bunk services this season, i would consider him an excellent resource for route planning in addition to phil.

Heyall!
Wow, I'm glad to have found this thread as I'm very interested in the possibility of a trip into either one of these parks.
I'm experienced in BWCA tripping but have never done the Q and think I'm up to the task.
Looking at a different park than the Q interests me for several reasons- less people, more fish and a place that most folks haven't seen.
I'm no great strongman or record breaker, but will work as hard as anyone and fish 'til the cows come home.
To me it's all about a great experience in the woods/water and an opportunity to hang with people of a like mind. BTW-I'm in the St. Louis, MO area.
Looking to go up Mid-May'08 with a close friend- he's also experienced, a great wilderness chef. He's also got great taste in whiskey and we're both well set up for gear.

I'd love to hear about anyones plans or experiences.

Thanks.
dedgrass

pm pete (suko) and get over to the wabakimi part of the board. discussion and trip planning going on there.

if you drink whiskey, i'd play that card with this group.

My group has also tossed out the idea of a new park. We have done Quetico five years in a row and are considering WCPP. Looking for an 8-9 day trip.

How is fishing in WCPP vs Quetico. We typically fish walleyes, northern, and Lakers in that order.

We used to go to the BWCA and started going to Quetico for more solitude and better fishing. We have found both. Regarding solitude we still can go days without seeing another group. I still have places in Quetico to expore. Would driving the extra distance be worth it for a trip to WCPP vs. Quetico?

Thanks

Seems to me that this thread belongs in the 'Other Canoe Camping Locations' forum. Neither of these parks is Quetico.

Mav and others, if you research the 'other places to paddle' forum on QJ, you'll get good answers to most of your questions.

Thanks Old Salt, I will check out the QJ.

I don't see an other Camping Location forum on this website?

Considering that this is the only thread that has had a post on it in two weeks in the Quetico forum, I don't think it really matters.

some quetico discussions have been siphoned off this forum and are now over on the both the quetico and wabakimi private group forums. if you start looking around the various paddling forums, including this one, and use the search button there's quite a bit of info available. the primary outfitter at red lake (goldseekers) was sold and i have not seen much in the way of reports on the new owners. their web site is up and running so you could start there if you haven't already. park is a couple million acres in combination with atikaki on the manitoba border.

There are MANY posts on the Canadian Canoe Routes forum at
http://www.myccr.com
there are many lengthy trip reports and photos of both parks including an indepth 90 day trip in the Woodland C Park.
Also check the forums at http://www.canoeing.com i think they had several trip reports too.