Did not wish to hijack a thread so am asking here, the discussion on the numbers possibly being down in Quetico brought back an experience from this past May that those of you who do cross the border more frequently might be able to answer.

My wife and I drove from CT to the Detroit area to visit our son and his family. We took a route that put us entering and exiting thru Canada.

We found the Canadian officials to be polite, matter of fact in attitude and quick.
On the U.S. side (We have passports)we found the officials unfriendly, slow, suspicious and in one case down right rude. Was this typical or did we hit them on a bad days.

Total time held by Canadian officials 15 minutes. U.S. officials 1 1/2 hours.
Boppa

I think it is typical, co-worker had same experience flying back from
Jamaica. I guess it is how they are trained.

It sure put me off. Like you said, Canadian side, friendly, efficient,
set standard questions. US side, suspicious, rude, condescending,
and random unrelated questions asked. All they need to do is
run my passports, ask the $ purchases & alcohol question. They
don't need to know where I've been, how I heard about Quetico,
why I don't sound like I'm from Georgia or who is going to play
the Loon flute we declared.

I tried to Google what rights US citizens have when returning back
into the USA but did not find much. Only thing I found was that
they have to let you back in but it did not say they could not detain
or search you or ask you any question they wanted. If anyone has
any insight or links about this, I would like to hear / see them.

my all time worst border crossing, including outside north america, was crossing into canada at international falls pre 9/11. since then, no problems either way until 6/07 crossing into the US where our stuff was searched and we were threatened with jail and a fine for bringing in a third of a nasty shriveled up lemon in a ziploc-that's the only lame thing they could come up with and i think they got pissed. that lemon was purchased in the states and was so old i forgot it was even in there. the lead agent was a gal in dire need of a shave-i don't think she liked us. we were delayed over an hour. the vehicle ahead of us had canadian plates and was just waved through, never even tapped the brakes. i have no idea why we were picked out of the crowd, and were finally turned loose with a stern "bad dog, bad dog" type of warning. i have to admit, i didn't have a good feeling about it. at times, it seemed like they were just daring you to complain.

That's pretty much the norm, although you will get some pissy Canadians sometimes.

jd probably happy with job load since 911 and subsequent busy times. With all the press and pressures on borders lately, I imagine everyone is just trying to do a thorough job and takes extra time. Maybe they got up on the wrong side of bed that morning.

I don't want to make excuses and I don't like rude people, but the bridge from Detroit to Canada is the busiest border crossing between these 2 countries. as overthehill has pointed out there is a lot of pressure on these men and woman and the terrorist only have to be right one time, we have to be right every time and at this time of ridiculous political correctness they have to check out people who are obviously not the enemy. I have heard that everyday they pick out every 10 cars or certain color cars and check them out regardless of who is in the vehicle. I know personally I wouldn't want to be the one that lets in the terrorist. as for them being rude and unfriendly there's no need for that.

I always thought it was a requirement for U.S. Customs officials at the Canadian Border to "wake up on the wrong side of the bed" :) This has always been this way as far back as I can remember (mid 1980's) September 11 maybe didn't help the situation, but I wouldn't give it as the main reason for the slowness/troubles crossing back into the U.S. from Canada. Maybe poor training??? Mostly it is the attitude you get that puts me off the most. Like they are some type of king of the world?? The only time we weren't hassled was in the late 80's the border guard just so happened to grow up near where we lived---easiest crossing ever.

Heaven forbid you make a joke or be light hearted :)---stick to yes sir, no sir (or mam) and make sure it is easy for them to get at anything you packed.

Tim

In closing my thoughts on border crossing and getting back to important canoeing concerns I will say that while I can envision the job of border professionals became tougher since 9/11. I cannot help but question their motives- A)Is it an implied position of power that they get off on or just a lack of training?

The Mrs. and I were pleasant - had passports, drivers license, insurance card and car registration all in order. I cannot think of a reason why any "red flags" would have started to wave.

This style of uncalled for aggressive questioning, suspicious attitude, innuendo and rudeness is but another victory for those who wish us harm.

Just unnecessary and sad.

By the way, I am having trouble locating that inflatable anchor - you crack me up - LOL.
Boppa

Hmmmm don't ask me I havn't gotten an RABC since before 9/11. However it wasn't much hassle than, other that the 100 mile round trip to Grand Marais.

DO NOT GET YOUR RABC FROM THE BORDER PATROL STATIONS ANYMORE!

They will kill you.

Always get it by mail. ALWAYS.

Take a chill pill man, I mentioned it was pre 9/11.

"Take a chill pill man"

i took it as advice to the forum, not you.

I won't go into Canada anymore. I am sure that Quetico is a great place and the fishing is excellent. However, I will vacation in the USA. I try and spend my vacation dollars( as well as all my dollars ) with my country. The BWCA is a great place and good enough for me. I don't like the hassle of crossing the border and never plan on doing it again. I'm sure that many of you will disagree with me but that's the way I feel. I guess if I never leave the USA I don't have to worry about getting back to it. So much for my 2 cents. Good fishing to all of you no matter where you go. Izzy

if you look the CBPO (customs and border protection officer) right in the eyes, do not wear sunglasses, do not answer question that are directed toward others in the vehicle and be as honest as you can they will be much less likely to harass you. i have crossed the border dozens of times and never been searched. I have been crossing since i wsa in my teens and now 33, maybe i just don't look threatening or something but the most i have been harassed was with a really crabby Canadian border officer who happened to be a woman and in a really bad mood. It still took less than a minute, but answering questions for a whole minute seems like forever when she makes you feel uncomfortable.

on my 4th canadian border crossing this season, i had had my truck emptied and searched. 1 1/2 hours later, and after finding nothing, all they said was "you can go now". three weeks later i crossed in again and went through in about 30 seconds. the outfitters i have talked with in the last month say that custom searches are way down the list as a reason for decreased tourist traffic this season. the main reason given was for not entering canada was dui or other felony conviction. the individual with the conviction didn't go, or if a member of a group, the entire group didn't go.

Looking for some general information on entering Quetico. How late in the year are the entry points, Prairie Portage, Cache Bay and others open.

When those are not open, what is required?

I believe the Quetico ranger stations are now all closed. If I recall they all closed on the 16th of September. Now you need to self register and pay your fees in an envelope you put in the box at the station. You still need to stop at the ranger station and obtain your self issue permit.

If you need a fishing license you will need to work through your outfitter or via mail to get one before you enter. Remember-this does not happen overnight so if you intend to fish get you license process started as soon as possible.

If you are crossing into Canada and not going through a customs station you still need an RABC (Remote Area Border Crossing Permit). There are people still patrolling the park (not as many as in summer) and if you get stopped without an RABC or proper self issue permit you will have some hefty fines and maybe more legal troubles.

Usually till the second week in September, ball park.

When there is no one there you just need to fill out a form with a CC number and drop it in the lock box. Honor system.

I am heading through Cache Bay next week. I have the proper documentation and self permit envelope for this ranger station ahead of time. Drop and go is what I am planning. It’s going to be costly at $20/night at this remote location plus the additional $30 for the RABC permit. Heck, it’s still cheaper than a Holiday Inn folks!

Oh, and my annual fishing permit I got in August while in Wabakimi was about $39~ Still it sure beats paying parking meters.

It’s a journey!

Have a good time. Be safe and let's us know how the trip goes! Trip report????

Chuck

looking forward to that report boneli.

I'll be heading up (BW only) in a couple of weeks as well and will try to post our report. It will be the 5th annual Four Solos trip which always occurs in October. Hoping for cool (hi's in the mid 40-mid 50 degree range) weather and maybe just a little snow.

Will Do!

Enjoy and be safe! This is my expensive Falls Chain loop!

Peace in paddles

Boneli

Considering the water levels, it's the perfect time to do it.

Check out the canoe stuckin Canyon Falls... Maybe there's a body underneath it.

Cool!

Sorry to steel this thread but I need your honest opinion. I tend to be optimistic when planning so I need a reality check here.

My goal is to do the Falls Chain loop as I have mentioned in the past. I will be putting in on Gull River in the morning making my way to Silver Falls and perhaps beyond (?). Once through the Falls Chain I want to continue through Kawnipi into Kawa Bay up the Wawaig River down through Mack Cr and through Cullen Lake back through Saganagons to Cached Bay and back. 5 paddling days. Or 4.5 really.

What do you think?

Boneli

You need to go the other direction, you will be going against the wawiag and the water is fairly high.

I have mentioned this several times already.

Get a tow. It will be worth it this time of year.

As far as I can see TRYGVE, the only thing you mentioned is the following quoted from the Falls Chain thread,

"That's going to be a tough route, considering the water levels.

Make sure you have a plan B.

It would be wise to go the opposite direction, although with the water levels the way they are, it may not matter.

You should be able to go from Sag to Boundary point in one day, then you should be able to make it into Mack, then Kawnipi, then Falls Chain, and out. "

There is nothing mentioned about HIGH water. Just about direction. The rest is very vague.

Since there has been a lot of rain, I was hoping for additional constructive feedback/information instead of the reply given. Boneli

Considering the rain, it may be wise to go with the Wawiag.

Considering the weather we've been having, it may be wise to get a tow.

Considering how the water is ripping through the Seagull River, it may be wise to use one of the two other landings on the Sag Corridor.



Don't camp in the Fallschain, cause the sites stink. And be careful of Canyon Falls, and the first and second set of Narrows after Bald Rock Falls.
When you're on a portage that is on the right side, make sure you keep to the right until you hit water. When you're on a portage that is on the left side, stay on the left till you hit water.

Thanks

No tows available this time of year. Can you show where the two landings are that you speak of? Do you have GPS cords if you can’t show it on a map? What is meant by water ripping through the Seagull River? Since I am not familiar with this area, do you mean there is considerable amount of flow going into Sag? Will there be any concerns heading back on the return?

The portage comment is not necessary.

Barry

The portage comment is because there are many paths off of some of the portages that lead directly to water, people have died by putting their canoes in at what they thought was the end of the portage. Through the Falls Chain, that is.

The landing you should use is the County Landing off of Sag Lake Trail, which is the last major road to your right as you head up the Gunflint Trail. It has a sign for Voyaguers Canoe Outfitters, and a pile of burned mailboxes at the end.

The flow of water into Sag via the Seagull river is pretty high, it would be very hard to paddle back up it.

Call me dense, but I struggle to understand the intricacies of legally entering Quetico from the BWCA. I almost always would be going after then entry points have closed for the season, and would really like to cross the border at some point other than those lakes nearest those ranger stations.

For example, crossing into Quetico from Crooked Lake to get to Brent. I could summarize what I THINK I need below, and if someone could confirm or adjust my "thinking", I sure would appreciate it.

Apply for RABC
Apply for Quetico Entry permit for Sarah Lake? jut guessing.
Stop at Prairie Portage ranger station for drop off fee, using an envelope I obtained with my permit in advance? Again just guessing.

Thanks for your help.

Linkslvr

If you cross into Quetico out of season from the BWCAW, you need an RABC, fishing license (can order through the mail), stop at Ranger station and pick up/ fill out self service permit--leave fees in the appropriate slot.

If the park is closed no need to reserve a permit it becomes self issuing. You just keep the permit stub on you to prove you paid--in case a float plane lands or park rangers come to check you.

Tim

Thanks Tim,

Is is absolutely necessary to stop at one of the (now closed) ranger stations? Is there any way to be able to legally enter Quetico via the BWCA WITHOUT doing that. In my earlier example, I can enter Crooked Lake via the Mudro BWCA entry point and from there easily get up to Brent in Quetico. How would you do that?

No, gotta stop and pay your dues.