heres a debate for the interested....

17" Souris River Quetico vs. 18" MN II Wenonah ????

looking forward to hearing the opinions....pleae describe in detail...

thanks

DuRoche

Here are my thoughts: (remember these are only one persons opinion who has paddled both)

Speed vs stability-MN II is faster, SR more stable. MN II is stable under paddle (secondary) but may feel a little tippy when sitting still or moving slowly (initial stability).
Glide-Wenonah glides farther and smoother with each stroke-SR slows if not being paddled.
Tracking-both track well and turn OK. A slight edge here to MN II.
Cost-SR less money
Ability to handle wind and waves-SR stability helps in big seas, but the higher bow makes it a little more susceptable to being blown in the wind.
Aesthetics-MN II is better looking IMHO
Ability to take abuse-SR seems able to take and flex over rocks better
Capacity-Both can take all the gear two need for a week or two
Company History-Wenonah is a fixture in the canoe industry-much longer track record of satified customers, SR is a realtive new comer compared to Wenonah.
Wenonah based in the US, SR based in Canada.

I own a SR Quetcio 17 and love it. There is no such thing as a perfect canoe. You can not make a mistake with either of these proven craft. To me it came down to what I could afford at the time. If I had enough for the MN II, I would also consider looking at the Bell tandems and have them enter into the equation.

I’m curious of opinions as to how these two canoes compare to the Bell Northwoods. I’ve read each company’s brochure and want to hear how actual BWCA users think they compare. What’s the best trade off between paddling, portaging, and lazy days fishing, exploring and taking pictures? I have paddles Wenonahs and enjoyed their speed. I am renting the Bell next week to try for the first time (on paper and in the store I sure like that one). I am curious about the Souris River who’s size and shape I think may compare to the Bell. I have also wondered about the long term durability of the Souris River canoes as I’ve often heard epoxy based resins break down more rapidly over time.

I have not paddled the SR. I have the paddled the MN II and the Bell Northwoods both are fine boats. I really don't think you could go wrong with either...that being said I thought the Bell handled better under load but that certainly has a lot to do with loading doesn't it!! I decided the Northwoods was the boat for me.......I had a hard time getting used to the tractor seats....a bunch harder to shift you weight to help balance out the canoe every time the pup decided to lay in a different direction.

This is great! I m so glad that I've finally found a place where I can gain some true paddlers insight into different canoes. Most of my days on the water have been in an aluminum monster. However, this past summer I had the opportunity to paddle in a kevlar canoe. I was hooked. I digress... Basically long story short I recently purchased a souris river 18' wilderness canoe. I have done my homework and for the money this was the best option. Have I choose well? I would love to hear any and all commentary on this canoe. Thanks!

also check out wenonahs new boundary waters model (17').

Bogwalker gives an excellent review of both canoes. I'll ad my 2 cents worth.

I would agree with most of his review. Essentially if you are looking for the most stable platform out there to fish and haul gear you can't go wrong woth the Souris River Quetico line. The MN II is a fine canoe and many like it---so I think you would be happy with either.

My personal decision was to to buy the Souris River. I chose it over the MN II becuase the Souris River was wider easier on my feet especially in the bow and I like to fish alot---the Souris River just felt better--more stable to me.

While it is true under flat water the MN II is faster and will glide better---I have found I rarely paddle under those conditions. When it is windy/wavy the increased stability actually makes up for the lack of speed (which isn't that big of a difference) and now you are faster than the MN II under those conditions.

So to sum it up for me--Souris River more stable, comfortable, and safer on big water/waves. They also claim they are more durable, but I haven't had mine long enough to comment.

Finally what you want in a canoe is a personal decision, you really need to try these canoes out to make a good decision. I would rent one or go to Paddle Daze in Ely (fishing opener) Redrock (souris River) and Piragis (Bell and Wenonah) both will have these canoes ready for test paddles.

Tim

Hey, how 'bout the Grumman 17 foot lighweight AL canoe?? Aka - The Silver Bullet :)

Souris river is ok but I don't think are as well made. Wenonah on the other hand will last longer. It may feel a little more tipsy or heavy. But longevity is no contest Wenonah.

another vote for souris.

L.T. Sulley,

I'm curious to why you think the Souris are not well made and that a wenonah will last longer??

I personally cannot refute your claim on longevity as I have not owned a canoe long enough to see how it will hold up over time (for either manufacturer). On the other side I have seen nothing to support your claim. What I have noticed is that outfitters who see the most abuse on their canoes have been providing more and more Souris Rivers for rent---why is that if they are not well made--they certainly are not cheaper.

Personally I saw my brother in law trip on a portage and throw a Quetico 18.5 up in the air--then landing on a rock with only a scratch---that impressed me on durability--I've seen other kevlars crack/break with less stress. My Souris River has seen well over 70 days of hard travel in Quetico over the last 5 years with no signs of damage just character marks.

I think all of the main canoe manufacturers (Bell, Souris River, Wenonah) provide good quality canoes--but each line/model has it's own advantages/disadvantages.

Tim

Souris Rivers will last longer, hands down, no question, they are more beefy.
I've worked on canoes all my life, what you lose to the weight and speed of a Souris 16 or 17 you gain in the durability. They are excellent outfitter canoes.
That said.
The MN II is an awesome canoe for good paddlers.

The new Boundary Waters is a strange canoe...

If I were comparing the SR Quetico series to Wenonah, I think the more prudent comparison would be that of a Champlain. That said, I have only paddled a Champlain briefly, but seems more in the mold of the SR. I have paddled a MN II twice for week long trips in the BW/Q. It was the first Kevlar I ever paddled and I didn't really like it - too narrow for me.

I had the same questions 3-4 years ago and ended up purchasing a SR Q17. I really liked that canoe. We actually took a trip two years ago and had a couple guys rent the MN 2 and we got to compare the canoes head to head. Not saying the MN 2 isn't faster, but to me it wasn't really noticeable. It doesn't seem as thought it carries as much either and when it is empty was kind of tippy to fish out of.

Last year I upgraded my canoe to the Quetico 18.5 and it paddles very similar to the Q17 and hauls a ton of gear, or an extra body.

I really think both canoes are good quality canoes. If you like to fish, or carry larger loads, I would look at the Champlain and the Quetico series, or one of the Bells. Obviously the MN 2 is a good canoe and lots of people like them. It just wasn't really what I was looking for.

Personally I think the best scenario you could come up with is to take a trip to the BW with 4 guys and rent one of each. See which one you like.

One more thing to whoever said the Wenonahs were prettier :), I have the Le Tigre version. It is black and gold and the only thing it is missing is a big Tiger Hawk (Hawkeye Logo) right on the front (still working on finding one). How can you not thing this is aesthetically pleasing:)!

"Souris Rivers will last longer, hands down, no question, they are more beefy."

saw a souris 16 solo last season that had scratches and gouges on top of each other-so much so that it looked like the canoe had been sandblasted. unbelievable wear and tear, but no patches, no repairs, no refinish. outfitter's choice-more every year.

The wilderness 18 is a nice canoe-not as stable as the Quetico series but it is sleeker and faster and more similar to Minn II than a Quetico version is. I agree it is closer to a Champlain in its ability to haul gear but do think the Champlain might be a touch more stable. You would need to paddle both to tell.

As far as durability my SR has been through some rugged areas in the BW and Quetico and still is in great shape. I also own a Wenonah Prism and fell the two are fairly equal in terms of durability with maybe a slight nod to the SR. That is probably more to do with material makeup than workmanship.

I love the way my Mn2 paddles. It's a little tight in the front but fine in the stern. My friend has a Q 18.5. Yes, it's a nice stable platform but a little harder to manuever. Durability? If I was an outfitter I would split those hairs, but for the average B-dubber who goes 2-4 times a year plus a few be-bops around home, it seems either would last. My .02.

Don't confuse longevity with durability. This is a huge generality, but for those using a canoe a few times a year, it is probably a moot point.

Wenonah is made with polyester or vinylester resin. Souris River is made with epoxy resin. Epoxy resin is more durable. Poly/vinyl has more longevity. I'm surmising that outfitters like the epoxy because customers can be hard on their canoes and epoxy will hold up better. I also surmise that the outfitters are not as concerned about the canoes' longevity because they like to sell off a canoe after three years of use or less to keep their fleet newer.

We as canoe owners will handle and treat our canoes better than renters treat outfitter canoes. We don't drag them on the rocks nor ram them into shore, so the durability issue may be less important. I believe both materials are plenty durable enough for private owner use.

We as canoe owners probably have the ability to store our canoes better as well. An outfitter would need a warehouse to store their canoes in the off season and even if they did the canoes would still be outside the entire season. UV light is the big culprit. Our canoes spend less time on the water than an outfitters and most of us can store them under cover, so again the longevity issue may not be a big concern for private owners.

I guess what I'm saying is that, while their is a difference between Souris River and Wenonah in durability and longevity, IMHO practically speaking for privately owned canoes the point is moot.

Great point, Bannock.
I was typing my first reply from the perspective of an outfitter.
Souris Rivers last longer in outfitting simply because they are made from thicker and harder material.
In the hands of a competent private party any canoe will last a long time.

I agree with Bannock, there is a 180 degree diff with the way people that rent a boat and those that own their boats treat them. Not to sound disrespectful, but lets face it there is a big diff. We have all seen rental boats that were 1 season old that looked like they had seen 10yrs of private use. Outfitters trade boats every couple years some every year. So to say one or the other is a better boat or more durable is a mute point. Paddle each boat and buy what feels right, if you take care of any boat with a little common sense and respect they will last you a life time. A friend of mine repairs all brands of boats and has seen his share of both W and SR, neither boats is impervious to the elements, they each have their own inherent design flaws. I guess in a perfect world we could take the best attributes of all manufacturers designs and materials etc to build the perfect boat. But in the real world we just find what fits us best for a given set of needs. Thats half the fun, we get to buy more than one new boat every so often to fit diff needs as time goes by. The debate goes on!!

cedarboy

And if all else fails, buy Royalex.

Yeah Trygve.

My first three BW trips were in an Old Town Penobscot 16, which was such an improvement over the old aluminum tanker. Then we got a Mn II, which we love dearly. It's been on many BWCA and Isle Royale trips and is holding up well, but it sure doesn't have the ruggedness of the Royalex, or the Aluminum!

Yup, it's some tough stuff.
It's not pretty, nor professional or practical, but it is tough.
They make nifty sleds, you can pile a bunch of people in them and fly down hills in the winter, or get out on a lake, tie it up to a snowmobile and fly around the lake. A lot of fun.

"And if all else fails, buy Royalex. "

:-) I like royalex. I own a wenonah Prospector 16 and a Nova Craft Bob Special in Royalex. I take the Prospector to the BW. But for portage weight, you can't beat kevlar.

BTW - my first kevlar canoe was purchased late last September and had its first BW trip in early October. Prior to that my solo was an Old Town Penobscot 15 in Royalex, of course.

What kind of kevlar did you buy?

Last September a couple of friends took a weekend shorty to Isabella with a borrowed SR Q17. Somehow, the laminated kevlar separated. Red Rock exchanged it free of charge. We usually use a 17 foot Penobscot.
Yes, it weighs 65 pounds, but you can beat the ---- out of it.

I've had the same problems several times. The Souris 16 and 17s have sealed bulkheads and water gets into them occasionally. The kevlar then begins to separate if you don't dry them out. Most have plugs that you can take out, then leave the canoe upside-down in the sun for a day or two.

"What kind of kevlar did you buy?"

Wenonah Encounter KevUL.

BTW it's for sale. I didn't like it. If anyone wants to know more they can either email me or we can start a new thread. I don't want to hijack this thread more than I already have.

What didn't you like about it?

Well I guess I am a little biased. I own a royalex wenonah, also the company that makes royalex ships through my fathers copany. Royalex does most buisness w/ wenonah. I had a brand new souris river kevlar through my outfitter last year. They were worried sik about people destroying the canoes on rocks. When we asked about wenonah they had much more favorable opinions. I'm still wenonah.

I'm taking my 2nd BW trip this summer, so I'm by no means an expert. I 1st trip was in a Wenonah Kevlar (not sure of the model) and this year I'll be trying the SR Quetico 17, mostly based on a glowing review of Souris River canoes that I came across on Red Rock's website. I guess I'll see for myself.
Also, a general comment on people beating up rental canoes. I rented on my first trip and will rent again this summer. I may be an exception, but on my first trip, I treated the rental equipment as if it were my own. To me, this is no different than policing yourself and honoring BW rules and regulations...even when there's nobody there to check up on you.

Outfitters will thank you for this.
Canoe damage is arguably the most frustrating aspect of the business, at least in terms of equipment.

Before I ever purchased a canoe for use in the BWCA, I researched each and every style of canoe, price, durability, paddle ease and capacity as I am a bigger than average person. I ended up purchasing a new 2002 SR Quetico 18.5 in duralite in 2003 for a great deal, about half of what they cost now! Joe at Red Rock is a great guy to deal with! Anyway... Everyone has their personal preference and again it depends on what you want: Speed? Capacity? Manuverability? For what I wanted the SR Quetico 18.5 was the best choice and I have never regreted it a moment... or else I would not carry it almost 1100 miles every year from Arkansas when I go!!

Bruce

"this year I'll be trying the SR Quetico 17, mostly based on a glowing review of Souris River canoes that I came across on Red Rock's website."

I like Joe Baltich at Red Rock a lot. Good guy. I'll listen to his opinions, and take his advice on most things, but when it comes to canoes he is biased. I take what he says about Souris River with a grain of salt. I'm not saying he's wrong but he is a fanatic about them and will present them in the best possible light.

Did you know that he/Red Rock is the U.S. distributor of Souris River canoes, and one of only two or three dealers in the U.S.? He has a vested interest in Souris River Canoes doing well.

I'm not saying don't buy one. Not at all. I think it is a good product and a good choice for a lot of people. And Joe's an honorable guy. I'm just saying I wouldn't base my opinion of SR Canoes completely on the glowing reviews found on Red Rock's website.

"What didn't you like about it? "

I posted a Product Review of it on Paddling.net. Mine is dated 1-8-2007 (KenE).

Interesting.
I looked at Wenonah's site right after I read your previous post, and that's the first thing I thought. "Dang, that solo is huge"

Then I noticed that the person paddling it is wearing a lifejacket from WWII.

"Did you know that he/Red Rock is the U.S. distributor of Souris River canoes, and one of only two or three dealers in the U.S.? He has a vested interest in Souris River Canoes doing well.

I'm not saying don't buy one. Not at all. I think it is a good product and a good choice for a lot of people. And Joe's an honorable guy. I'm just saying I wouldn't base my opinion of SR Canoes completely on the glowing reviews found on Red Rock's website.
"
I did not realize that Red Rock was a distributor, but I was aware that they rent and sell SR's. Knowing this, I did some additional searching and found other good reviews (although none as glowing as RR's). Since fishing will be my main activity in the BW, the SR seemed like a good fit. Also, since I'm renting, the worst case scenario is I'm stuck with a canoe I don't like for a week.

Trust me... for fishing you will love it! Very stable platform for fishing, or at least my 18.5 is!

Bruce

At one time, I owned both a MNII and a Q17 and liked them both but for different reasons. These are just my opinions but here's my take:

The MNII is like a sports car. It is fast, glides like no other canoe I've paddled, and just feels graceful on the water. I did find the low bucket seats to be a little uncomfortable for long days of paddling. I also found it hard to control when paddling with an angled tail wind. The wind and waves catch the stern and really push it hard. Maybe I never got the trim right but it wasn't from lack of trying. When the conditions were just right, it didn't seem to matter how we shifted gear, or moved the bow seat. That said, 90% of the time I found the MNII to be a great boat that is a joy to paddle.

The Q17 is more the minivan of canoes. There's nothing really exciting about it, but it does everything pretty good. The contoured webbed seats are higher and much more comfortable - for me any way. It's not really slow, but does feel that way coming from the MNII.

As far as durability goes, I agree with the others that said there probably isn't enough of a difference to matter if you plan to take reasonable care of it. Fit and finish were again a wash on the two canoes I owned. Both had minor cosmetic issues but nothing major.

In the end, I kept the Q17 and sold the MNII but it wasn't any easy decision. I do a lot of base camping and fishing and for that the Q17 seemed a better fit. If most of my trips were covering a lot of miles day after day, my choice may well have been different.

One of the best things you can do is get out and test them. Everyone has said that. The best way to test head-to-head is to go to PaddleDaze in Ely. Its in May. Find the Piragis website for more info. They take all of their boats down to Shagawa Lake and allow people to test paddle any canoe they carry. If you want to test a SR you need to go to Red Rock on Jasper Lake. Its another 45mins or so East of Ely, but it was worth it to get the right comparison.

My wife and I took the trip last year because we will be buying a kevlar boat this year. We got there and the weather was sunny but windy. Perfect test paddling weather. You need to practice how you play. Some people refused to test out the boats in the bay because they thought it was too windy. My wife and I hopped right in and started paddling. We tested the Wenonah Champlain, Spirit II, MNII, Escape and the new Boundary Waters (a copy of the SRQ17). We also tried the Bell Northwinds. We liked was the Boundary Waters and the Champlain, but the BW wasn't available for sale yet. All the rest were too tippy for me and my wife. We do a lot of paddling in the summer, but we fish a lot too, swim from our canoe and we have 2 kids and now a dog. We like size and stability. There were whitecaps on the waves and the wind was rough, but it was a perfect way to test out a boat you plan on BWCA tripping with. The Piragis people would not let you get into your canoe from the shore or drive it onto the sandy beach. You had to load from their floating dock.
Next we drove to RedRock and grabbed a SRQ17. First of all, while we getting our PFD's on the boat was picked up by the wind and thrown against a tree!! We looked it over and it was fine. No marks or flexing on a new boat. They thought we were crazy to want to go out in the wind. We paddled out and made some turns and came back. It was too windy, but the boat stayed stable. We came back the next morning. They opened an hour early so we could try it before we drove home. We loved it. It handled well, was stable and strong. Oh yeah, and we could run it up on shore and nobody scolded us or winced when we did it.

It was a tough decision and we rented a SRQ17 and a Champlain for out summer trip and we liked the SR more, especially with bent paddles. We will be buying one this spring. It was more stable for fishing and floating. I like the seat design better and it was more stable and easier to drive in the storms we paddled in.

Someone made the point about the Epoxy getting weaker earlier, but the huge thing is it can be refinished for little money and a days work. If you crack a wenonah its not that easy. Also I have always had red boats. I want a red SR and I can get that while avoiding the 6lbs of weight in the gel coat. SR color doesn't add weight.

Our friends liked it so much they bought one when we came back from our trip. That was a $2600 souvenier for them but they really liked the performance.

with royalex....you dont have to worry about what kind of epoxy is being used. (ducking) :) Jan

Not to contradict anyone but... Wenonah canoes are easy to repair. Polyester resin and fiberglass will fix just any crack or hole and it can be done in a matter of minutes.

Souris Rivers are a little tougher, simply because their material is so stiff, hard and thick.

You can really see from the number of posts how much this is a personal preference. I like Bell canoes. I have a Northwood in Blackgold. Before I purchased I tried our a Wenonah and a Souris River. I recommend that to everyone. I have to give credit to Bogwalker and Bannock and a few others for recommending I try out the canoes before buying. I also think the posts have summed up the qualities of both of those canoes well and both are great canoes.
My question "is there really such a thing as a bad canoe?" Some are heavier some lighter, some faster, some handle big water better. But heck I would rather be in the worst canoe made on a lake in the BWCA than on a yacht somewhere else.

i concure GB...as long as its a 16 penob. lol Jan

"is there really such a thing as a bad canoe?"

Although I didn't realize it at the time, my first canoe, an orange Coleman Ram X, came very close. However, it was virtually indestructible and cheap...and, oh yeah...it did float.

Yeah, Coleman canoes are pretty bad. Heavy, flat bottomed, slow and they have a big aluminum pipe running down the middle. I have a MN II , but never tried a Souris River. I don't think they were around when I bought my Wenonah, which is over 10 years ago. I like it by the way.

I have rented souris rivers the 18.5 in kevlar for the bwca. I leave my royalex Wenonah sundowner at home. Mainly since I am alomst 1,000 miles from ely. Royalex is heavey but will last ages longer than any kevlar canoe. I'm still a wenonah type. Mine was over other canoes. As I mentioed earlyer our outfitter told us people landing on rocky shores have destroyed their souris rivers. While there wenonahs were fine.

2 years ago I finally broke down and bought a wenonah champlain and cant say a bad word about it. I have never tried the SR canoes but have paddled a mn 2 many times and found that I value a little extra room, especially in the bow, a lot more than a little extra speed. I have been on 2 trips side by side with a mn2 and didnt notice falling back that much and when the waves got big I felt alot more confident than my compadres. I like to fish alot and landing a big pike out of the front of a mn 2 can be a heart pounding experience. The champlain does weigh a little more, 3 lbs, but in terms of piece of mind I think its worth it. As far as durability my dad has had a wenonah 17', dont know the model, for over 20 yrs and let me tell you my brother and I have beat the heck out of that thing. It has been dropped, banged on rocks, run rapids, fell partially off a trailer in transit (if you know my father please leave these things out of the conversation) and has only needed routine maintenance. Although I am a wenonah supporter I havent heard any bad things about SR so it may be just a personal preference
Good luck with your decision
Nate

LT, I just have to ask you since you keep bringing it up. Who is your outfitter? I have never heard anyone saying you had to baby SR's? Not taking a shot at any manufacturer or saying SR is better than Wenonah or anything. But you keep implying that your outfitter thinks they are fragile? My limited experience in talking to outfitters is that they are pretty durable. When I drive around Ely, I see them at most outfitters.

I took my SR17 down the Flambeau river in Wisconsin and we ran some Class 2 rapids with it. It bounced off rock after rock and I was scared Sh**less that I was going to do severe damage to it. But it hung tough, nothing but a few scrathes. My buddy rented a Disco 179, which is one durable canoe. Mores suited for running rapids. I don't advocate this in a glass canoe, and chalked it up as a learning experiance and will rent a Disco going forward, but the fact of the matter is, I beat the living hell out of my SR17 for a good couple miles and it was no worse for the wear.

Mav

I'm not sure if it is just because there are more MNII's out there compared to SR's, but used SR's seem to go for more money than MNII's.

Might be something to keep in mind if you ever plan to sell your canoe?

As I said in my first post, I found both the SR and the Wenonah Kevlar lay-ups to be plenty durable for my purposes. Neither of them are Royalex but with some common sense should last a long time. Before I bought my SR (I already owned the Wenonah and was happy with it's durability), I contacted a number of outfitters that rented both SR & Wenonah to get their opinions on durability - I too was thinking the Red Rock Website sounded to good to be true. Most of them responded back saying that they each had strengths and weaknesses but were pretty comparable overall. My advice is to place more emphasis on which hull design suits you best as you will probably notice that more than any minor difference in durability.

"My advice is to place more emphasis on which hull design suits you best as you will probably notice that more than any minor difference in durability."

Here! Here! I couldn't agree more.

Here is another thing I'll just throw out there, a lot has been said about outfitter recommendations. I'm all for it if you are renting a canoe from them. You want to get the best available to fit your needs that they offer. The key here is, "that they offer". Outfitters have a different set of criteria in purchasing canoes than private owners. They want durability, storeability, and canoes that fit the paddling abilities of their clients, generally meeting the lowest common denominator. They generally don't rent canoes that the average Joe can't paddle. There are liability issues I'm sure, but more importantly they want happy customers. They get repeat business and good word of mouth. Customers that tip over aren't happy.

Therefore there are a lot of canoes that they don't carry for rental. When I was in the market for a new solo I wanted to test paddle some. I figured a couple day trip in the BW would be a great test. Basically I could find the wenonah Prism and the SR Q16 solo no problem. If I looked a little harder, I could find a Bell Magic. But that was about it.

There are the demo days, thank goodness, where you can try some different boats. Try to find the hull you like at one of those. It may indeed be one that the outfitters offer, but then again, maybe not.

I agree with Bannock completely.

One of the other perks about the Paddle days event was that I got to test paddle several of the solo boats including the Bell and a couple from Wenonah. That was very fun despite the windy weather.

It looks like I'm getting into this discussion about five years late :) but I'm new to the forum but not to paddling. I've been searching for a suitable BWCA -light- boat to take my significant other to the BWCA. It's a right of passage for her. she's ben paddling three years and I about twenty-five.

I own 14 canoes, paddle whitewater and teach paddling. Not to brag but just to show I've got some background. After a lot of research and paddling two friends SR 17,I bought a red Tigre SR 17.Beautiful boat and a pleasure o paddle.

Recently on our maiden voyage at home in the Chicago area, we took it on an after work paddle on a local quiet stream (DuPage R.) after work with friend for two hours. Well, we paddled over a small tree trunk in the rive that had been there for years and did have water flowing over it. We got stuck on the log with Patti in the bow scoching into the water. The "drop" was about 8" and we herd a noise, and the boat just behind the bow seat flexed up abut 6 inches and then the outer clear side cracked just above the ribs in three spots on both sides of the boat. Needless to say I was bummed out! I feel the boat is not stiff enough and that's what caused my problem. We were in two feet of water with mild current-still not a place just to jump out. The log was black with age and blended in. I'm about to do the repair and will be on the Echo trail in three weeks.

I don't want to baby the boat but feel that for $3000 now I'm afraid to take it on any kind of moving water anywhere. Does anyone have any thoughts? I'm thinking of trying to extend the ribs which is what SR does for some outfitters. I tried to upload a photo but don't think it worked.

I'd probably give Souris River a call or send an email with pictures of the damage. They'll be the best source to answer your questions regarding repairs, or how the damage has ultimately affected the integrity of the hull. The fact Souris River uses Epoxy resin, I would want their input before attempting any repairs.

I don't know if it's feasible, but since you'll be "in the neighborhood" in about three weeks, you might consider taking the canoe to the Souris River factory in Atikokan. That is if you have the time and credentials to cross the border.

Then again, that will probably eat up a good chunk of your vacation time, so it's probably not worth the trip if the damage isn't too severe.

Souris River Canoes
106 Reid Street, P.O. Box 1116
Atikokan, Ontario CANADA

Tel: 1-807-597-1292
Toll-free: 1-888-226-6386
Fax: (807) 597-1157
E-mail: sales@sourisriver.com

Good Luck,

Hans Solo

Please do contact SR and then let us know their response.

I did contact them an sent pictures. They said that with my weight at one end and my partners at the other that was too much and the boat cracked and when you buy a lighter boat you have to compromise. He said that because the boat wasn't supported by water at either end the boat over flexed. I learned that some outfitters use SRs with extra long ribs that come up higher that the chine.

We went in circles and finally he said that he could send me enough materials to do a repair two times over. My concern is that a $3000 boat at 17 feet should be able to go over a small ledge or tree trunk found in most quiet rivers and not suffer any serious consequences. The person I spoke with said he and his wife always got out and pulled over. This is not always possible.

The damage isn't too severe. Just three or four cracks on each side of the boat just above the ribs. Interestingly, the person that I spoke too knew just where the cracks would be BEFORE I told him.By the time I get there I'll probably have the boat repaired and a piece of Kevlar on the inside too to be safe. However, I'll probably see Joe at the Red Rock Store as he's the one who sold it to me.

I can't tell you how durable the Wenonah's are but when my SR got a crack in her out in the middle of nowhere, I was glad I had a SR. The crack was about 8 to 10 inches long and below the water line. Made all the way out without taking on a drop of water. I don't think the Wenonah could have made the same claim to fame. Nuff Said.

JB

SR Q17s are tough boats. But they are not teeter totters :)

quote Openboat: "The damage isn't too severe. Just three or four cracks on each side of the boat just above the ribs. Interestingly, the person that I spoke too knew just where the cracks would be BEFORE I told him.By the time I get there I'll probably have the boat repaired and a piece of Kevlar on the inside too to be safe. However, I'll probably see Joe at the Red Rock Store as he's the one who sold it to me."

Have fun with Joe.....

quote jb in the wild: "I can't tell you how durable the Wenonah's are but when my SR got a crack in her out in the middle of nowhere, I was glad I had a SR. The crack was about 8 to 10 inches long and below the water line. Made all the way out without taking on a drop of water. I don't think the Wenonah could have made the same claim to fame. Nuff Said.


JB "

Oh jb, I just can't let you get away with bashing my Wenonah. I know at 28 years of age it has been drug over more rocks and logs on more rivers than yours has even seen... NO CRACKS YET... By design alone, shallow arch, mine should be stronger and able to handle more stress. Hans Solo and I are about the same age and of like minds. Right now both of us are willing to carry heavier boats for they just don't let us down when the going gets tough.

jb, you also know I am looking at a Savage River tandem canoe (Blackhawk) in the expedition lay up; yet, at 48 pounds it has 6 pounds more stuff to make it tough than most light weight tandems in the 17-18'6" range.

Openboat, I feel for you but would have to agree with snakecharmer. You take a light weight flat bottom boat and subject it to that kind of stress, well, things are just gonna happen. I would not expect a light weight canoe to not suffer any damage in the situation that you describe any more than I would of my car if I tried to walk across the hood.

If you want a tried and true expedition "glass" boat, plan to carry about 63 pounds for a solo and 83 pounds for a tandem. I am very familiar with a certain brand of this type of canoe.

JW

Thanks to Snake Charmer and JB for your comments.

JB,

I'd be interested in how you repaired your SR. It looks like you added material to repair and stiffen the chine area of your boat. If I could do that it would make me feel better.

I've paddled an Old Town FB, and Kevlar Canadienne in the BWCA and they handled well. Also have taken a Royalex Wenonah Spirit 2 to Woodland Caribou. I'm 71 and in pretty good shape but did want to get away from carrying heavier boats. Your example of walking across the hood of your car is a good one. Guess I'll have to be more careful.

I may have time to go to SR after my trip to see about extending the ribs-I'm retired and have the time to go.

openboat:

you really should have started a new thread, many people who could have input will not even look at this

PS: the $3000 you paid was for the boat to be light, most places warn people about tying down the canoe on top of a car which is where a significant portion of those that are "broke" meet their demise

Sorry about the new thread. I'm new to the group. I do know about "cranking" down on Kevlar boats. I have had a Bell Wildfire for a number of years.

Was searching to see if anyone else had problems with the Tigre canoes and found this old thread.

Over the last few years, we have found that the SR Quetico Tigre style 17 & 18, but especially the 17's, have had problems at the ribs.

The canoes do flex but then the ribs start to have problems, bend in, make people nervous & are a bear to try to repair.

I don't think the ones that are just plain Kevlar have the problems the Tigre ones do but a lot of it is because the boat is made to flex and when it does, it starts to show cracks at the ribs.

We are trying out a lot of ideas to repair the SR's but haven't found a perfect solution yet.

Our SR canoes go out a lot so get a lot of use and I'm sure some people have not taken care of them too well either, but most have.

We will still be getting the SR canoes but have had less problems with the Wenonah Boundary Waters (almost a carbon copy of the SR 17, but not exactly) so we are going to be getting more of those and less SR's.

My son is my tripping partner and he does not like sitting in the front of a MN 2. He is 6 foot 4 and there is not enough room up there for him.

I do not own a canoe at this time--only renting.

Interesting thread. I rented several different kevlar canoe models before settling on purchasing a Wenonah Boundary Waters, which I think is much more comparable to the SR Quetico 17 than the MN II. I really like my BW canoe. Very stable, which is more important to me than speed. Holds a good load too.

My SR17 is on its fourth year but only has about 40 days on the water. Except for some scratches it is the same as new. I know that they had issues with the rib system in the past with the material between he ribs becoming concave. I called the factory before I bought mine and asked about that. I was told that adding ribs corrected that issue and so far so good with mine.
The problem you are describing sounds like something different altogether and I would be interested in seeing a pic.

quote Thwarted: "My SR17 is on its fourth year but only has about 40 days on the water. Except for some scratches it is the same as new. I know that they had issues with the rib system in the past with the material between he ribs becoming concave. I called the factory before I bought mine and asked about that. I was told that adding ribs corrected that issue and so far so good with mine.
The problem you are describing sounds like something different altogether and I would be interested in seeing a pic."

I think it was the year of the "bad ribs" because John bought about 30-40 of them since they were becoming so popular. Unfortunately for us that it was the problem batch year!