OK, first of all, canoes are easier to load and unload I'll give them that. But if you've never been in a kayak, you should really give it a try. I bought a kayak recently and have been loving it. I got a Old Town Loon 111. It's 11'1" long and weighs 47 pounds. It has a large cockpit and a VERY comfortable seat and foot rests. I think it is easier to portage than a canoe, I can lift it with one arm and carry my gear with the other. It's very manuverbale and yet tracks very well. It is also faster than a canoe. I am 6'5" 185 and I fit easily in it with all my gear.

Don't be afraid of kayaks, they are a lot fun that you don't want to miss out on. They also make tandem Kayaks.

Don't feel bad ritterjon,
I too, was once the proud owner of a loon 138 and really enjoyed paddling it. I left it with my bro and his family when I moved and I miss it from time to time. I still have intentions of getting myself a composite sea kayak as soon as the cash flow permits. I live near Superior and that's the only way to paddle on the big lake (not realy but I don't like to chance it). I will have to disagree on the portage aspect. Maybe a carry over a 30-60 rod portage might not be so bad but I would much rather have the canoe for anything longer than that.

Hex

I am considering an Old Town Loon. I currently have been tripping with an Old Town Discovery 169 and would like to try some open water in a kayak. Thoughts?

If you want to use Kayak's where they are definitely King of the personal watercraft, go to the Apostle Islands or Isle Royale (heck, even just Grand Marais) and use a good long sea kayak in Superior. The Apostles can be wonderful to hop around in a kayak. There are great campsites and sea caves, sunken wrecks that you can see through the water.

I found this website in the March 2005 edition of Outdoor Life. The ad features the Pungo 120 "Angler". If you prefer a kayak, this one looks pretty good. Has a payload of 400 lbs including paddler.

www.wildernesssystems.com Click recreational

TR

Old post - but you carry the Kayak under one arm and your gear under the other? I assume you actually mean you carry your PFD and paddle under the other arm as opposed to a #4 pack. Tell you what - pack for a ten day trip and I'll race you across Yum-yum - I'll have my solo canoe and you can carry your Kayak.

Kayaks are lovely, but not a very good design for serious tripping.

Iv never used a canoe. Just because my family always owned kayaks when I was a kid. Now thats all I own.

Is YumTum a portage? Cuz that would be the only place you might start to catch up if it is. On open water a kayak will smoke a canoe. Especially if there is any head wind. And if it starts to pour in the middle of the trip your rain gear covers the opening and you paddle on.

I wont ever forget when my dad brought his folbot to the BW. At the end of a portage he installed his sail and FLEW across the lake.

Hey I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or made anything that allows you to carry your kayak on your shoulders or back like you can a canoe!? I've been considering bringing a kayak up to the bwca for a while because our group has an odd number of people, it was going to be 5 people now it's 3. So we're stuck either bringing a 3 person canoe or a 2 person canoe and a kayak. It's a relatively light kayak at 37lbs but I'd still rather carry it on my shoulders than by using the handles.

any suggestions would be welcome!!

Spring Creek Canoe Accessories, Mt. Iron, Mn 800-932-881
www.canoegear.com
I purchased a "portage" pad/rack for my kayak from this company. It worked well for me on a May trip in the BWCA. It's fairly comfortable and easy to install and stow. They have a picture of it on there web site. Fairly pricey, about $85.oo.

Kayaks vs canoes... isn't it great that we now have a choice? Here's my take. For tandem tripping, a canoe wins hands down. For solo tripping though, I believe the kayak comes out on top. Lets look at the 3 major aspects: Paddling, the Portage and the Transition. 1) A canoe is superior during the transition as they are easier to load/unload and enter/exit. Kayaks with large, open cockpits and no hatches make this almost as easy as a canoe and allow you to use fewer bags. 2) The kayak is superior on the water since they are much faster than a solo canoe and can handle more wind and waves allowing you to stay on the water longer with safety. Canoes are probably more comfortable as fishing latforms, but kayak fishing is growing fast and was just featured in Paddler magazine. The portage is what has always been the critical factor in the past, since there wasn't a good way to carry a kayak. There are now padded clamp-on yokes available, and for the ultimate comfort... the Knu-Pac (http://www.knupac.com) which will carry a kayak far more comfortably than carrying a canoe on your shoulders.

Though I've always been a canoeist, I have to choose the kayak for solo tripping when I do the math. In the end, it's always a personal choice and a well handled solo canoe is a joy to behold.

Hey,
Everything is a compromise. I don't think the real capabilities of kayaks for tripping have been exploited. I think a really light kayak would be better than a canoe for solo tripping. You can build an 18' capable sea kayak with stich and glue technique for about 30#. If you travel light you could stash all your gear in the water tight hatches and portage using a packframe the can be bungeed to the back deck.You would have some clumsiness at put in and take outs but this would be offset by the ability to paddle big lakes in virtually any wind conditions, self rescue by rolling, and alot of speed compared to a solo canoe. If your are travelling with at least one other person, I think the advantages tend to go away. A Minn ll would weight just 12# more but carry two people for a very decided weight advantage. Adding a self bailer and cover would allow travel in more exciting conditions,but most rational people would probably opt to wait for the wind to die down. My next project is the kayak mentioned above. I just have to finish my 12', 12# solo pack canoe that is sitting in the basement. Toodles,Frogge. P.S, Under my system you would only unload and load your kayak at your campsite.

if any one has built one id like more info about building a kayak did you use a kit if so what one or if you built from just plans any troubles tips and of course cost ive seen kits from 750 to 1200 any inf would be greatly apreaciated.

me

I've seen 2 kayaks that seem more suited to tripping than most designs.
The Swift Adirondack is 13', weighs 30# and has a large cockpit for easy entry / exit. While the shorter length would make it slower than an 18' boat, it would also be more maneuverable on creeks and such. The other boat was or is marketed by a gentleman from Minneapolis. Though I can't reca;; the product name, it had a standard kayak hull, but the decks were removable waterproof panels to keep the weight down and allow access to your gear. Can't recall seeing it advertised lately.

Hey,

I've got the plans,just need the space and time. I've built several strip canoes and an ultralight(see pic). Here's a link to the relevant web site. The stich and glue boats would be much faster and easier to build than the strip boats. I expect the cost would be below $400 if you have the tools etc. www.oneoceankayaks.com toodles Frogge