I intend to give you the whole story and see where this post ends up. My wife and I both grew up in Wisconsin. My wife in the city and I in the north woods. We moved to South Carolina and lived there for 12 years. Due to the economy I got a job back in Wisconsin after getting let go from my job in SC. In this economy I am happy to have the job, my wife hates the winter. We moved last fall so this will be our second winter back.

I have always loved the outdoors mostly for the adventure, I love exploring places I have never gone. I love to fish mostly because you never now what will happen. The fishing is never about catching for me, maybe this is what people that are not good at something say, all the same I love being on the water. I went camping with my family as a kid and it is still some of my fondest memories. This summer I took my first trip to the BW with some old high school friends and had a great time of course how could it not be an adventure. Needless to say I am glad to be back "home" and would love to share the outdoors with my children. This is one of the great advantages of the northern Midwest, and if you are not taking advantage of this you are missing one of the best things this part of the country has to offer. sorry for preaching to the choir.

We have 3 children the oldest two are old enough to start taking along on a few adventures. We camped in the back yard many times this summer, however it took us until September to go to a "real camp site". Not a wilderness site, it was a national forest with showers and bathrooms etc. Anyhow, I just am not ready for the season to end I guess. So what does any of this have to do with the topic? Even I am not sure, however I have always been very intrigued by the idea of a winter adventure like camping. I generally don't mind the cold, it does not seem to bother me as much as most people. I love ice fishing as much if not more than open water fishing. So I have been thinking a lot about taking a winter or late fall or early spring camping trip. So I have been reading the posts here and other sites. The idea of hot versus cold tents gear etc.

Well it does not take long to understand that the hot tent route is more comfortable, for a lot of reasons some obvious but many of which I would not have even thought of. It also does not take long to realize that hot or cold tent, camping in the winter requires a lot of expensive equipment. I think a cold tent would be fine for me alone, however I do not have the cold weather sleeping bag and Heavy gear that I would need to pull this off. I don't think the cold tent is an option for my children for a lot of reasons, but mostly hot or cold tent my wife will not entertain the idea of winter camping for them and certainly not her. She did not go camping with us in early September because she thought the nights would be too cold for her. So I thought I have no chance of her warming up (pun) to the idea of a cold tent even for me and the kids. So I start looking into hot tent options. A hot tent and a stove will pretty much run you $1,000. I could rent, but I would be solo, so this is still a pretty expensive weekend for a one time shot. Also since I have not been and don't know anyone that does this, I would like to try a couple of nights in the back yard or close to home so I can bail if I have to. So I have been searching the Internet and think I have come up with a way to rig gear that would not be to expensive.

However, I would like to run this by someone, the experts here, to see what you think before I go off and start this. This site was immensely helpful with planning the BW trip so I expect it will be with this.

Are you sorry that you read this far?

My plan is to buy 2 fire retardant canvas tarps that are 8 ft by 10 ft. I can weave a rope through the grommets to make one long tarp of 8 x 20. I intended to make a tipi style shelter as shown in this link. make a tarp camping shelter
I have calculated that this will give me a 6 ft 4 inch diameter and a height of 7 ft 8 inches. This is based on a true cone shaped design. I think I can make more of an oval if I need more length I am 6 ft tall.

I could purchase one 8 x 20 tarp for the same price however if I ever want to expand on my tipi to include the family, I could turn the tarps to 10 feet long on the height of my tipi. The cost of these two tarp is about $90.

Also I think the kids will love this design of the tipi versus a normal roofed tent shelter even if we are just playing in the back yard. If this does not work I think I can use the tarps for something or this could double as an ice fishing shack or I think I could even resell them.

Now how to stay warm. The Indians used open fire in their tipi's however I don't like the thought of it, sparks flying freely inside a tent seems unsafe at best, plus my tipi is crude anyhow and probably a lot smaller than what the Indians used(I am only guessing). I have no idea if I could somehow not have a tarp filled with smoke. So a wood stove? The lowest price of a portable wood stove that I found was about $250. So I go searching the Internet again. I found this site with plans to build a portable wood stove. Portable wood stove

I am only marginally handy with this stuff, though I think I might try to undertake this project, I am not sure how it will turn out.
Any tips would be appreciated or general thoughts on the plans would be greatly appreciated. Am I in way over my head here?

I think with the Tipi shelter I should be able to run the stove pipe out of the center of the shelter. I am thinking that I might need some sort of collar to attach to my tarps and then run the stove pipe through that so the tarps do not come in contact with the hot stove pipe. I was thinking about an aluminum collar since I think it does not conduct heat very well. I am not sure how much heat would be lost through this sort of design. I would guess someone might have a better idea on this for me.

The one thing about a hot tent that I do worry about is the ventilation. I know every year someone dies in their ice fishing shack due to ventilation issues. I would think this shelter would have no problem with ventilation. Any thoughts on this?

On the ice fishing shack thought, I would need to come up with a center pole. How does PVC piping work in the cold weather? Do you have any other ideas? How could I stake this out on ice?

So what have I missed? I would love to hear any and all thoughts including gear, the family, winter camping in general or what ever. I know you guys are creative.

Thanks for reading this far through the post. Do I get extra trees for the length of the post?

Jerry

Hi Jerry. I will make a few comments and I am sure others will as well.
First be very careful with your heat source. A wood stove is great but it needs to be tight so your tent won't fill with smoke because of a back draft. If you can make it great but make sure it is sealed where it is supposed to be and vented where it is supposed to be. The biggest stove you can buy or make won't be quite big enough (if you know what I mean)
I think your tent idea is sound. It should provide enough ventilation but maybe not enough room. You can just sew in loops around the base edge and use snow stakes to hold it out. A snow stake is a simple pine branch or sticks crossed and buried in snow. In a few hours you have to dig it out because it will freeze into place.
Aluminum is an excellent heat conductor and it will get hot quick. Consider using a piece of fiberglass cloth sewn into your tarp for the chimney exit. Your chimney needs to be supported somehow so it won't fall over. That's why you see them sticking out the sides of wall tents and supported by a stick. You hate for it to blow over in the middle of the night. A metal ring sewn into the fiberglass to hold the chimney pipe would work.
Don't forget to tramp down the snow where you will sleep. This will make a solid base for you when sleeping because of the refreeze principle.

Good luck and ask more questions. Winter camping is awesome.

Whattya mean do this on your own!!! I for one am game & I am pretty sure you can convince a certain English teacher to try it (though the tent would need to be significantly longer).

Regarding the aluminum ring = yup makes for a great way to transfer heat quickly to the cloth. If you use a piece of triple wall flue (like code requires for wood burning appliances) then you should stay below the "flash point" of the suggested fiberglass. They also make a fire retardant insulation for ductwork that I might be able to get my hands on. Or we could make a "vent penetration" made from fire proof material that gets attached to the canvas.

If you want to try the winter thing out and not suffer a horrifying death by TeePee fire may I suggest a "Yurt-to-Yurt" cross country ski trip. I clearly am not in shape for it yet but give me a couple of months and I can be. Here is a link:

http://www.boundarycountry.com/yurt-ski.html

Call me & let's discus.

Rojo

As said, the quality of the stove will dictate how safe your shelter is. I would suggest getting someone with experience to help build it. Now, with that being said, lately I have been reading 'On Your Own in the Wilderness by Townsend Whelen and Bradford Angier' It was written many years ago about Whelens wilderness experiences. This guy would go deep into the woods (think 100 miles from anyone) with a 30 lb pack and a rifle, and stay for weeks or months. He made many different styles of canvas shelters (one of which I am currently making, a Whelen Lean-To) and tried a number of different stoves. He spoke of one that he'd found in an old trappers shack which was made from an old metal washtub. The tub was setting upside down in a bed of sand. This is what sealed the large opening. There was a hole in the top for a stove pipe and another to feed wood in. The hole for the wood was sized to fit one of the trappers kettles. This would seal that hole. For the draft, he simply made a small hole in the sand at the base of the washtub. His point being, that with a little thought, and/or, a lot of desperation, or need to stay alive, one can fashion a heat source from most anything. He also spoke of making a stove from two pieces of stovepipe... the kind that snaps together. Snap one to the other to make a larger cylinder. Of course, sealing the ends is a little more difficult. This requires lacing a round disk into the ends.
Regarding finding a canvas shelter that can be heated, watch ebay for a used, metal framed, canvas tent or, search on a 'boy scout' tent. I bought a boy scout 'Baker Tent' (about 8x10) like new, for $40. Of course, I later broke down and bought a Snowtrekker. Oh... for winter, you may be changing your name to 'Heavy tent'

Thanks portage keeper, a very interesting post! I might have to get a copy of that book. I might also have to look into that lean to idea. I have been having trouble getting the tipi idea to work how I thought it would. I have purchased my materials for the stove an am going to give it a try. Great suggestions on what to look for on Ebay etc. I will keep you informed on my experiences. It is kind of fun trying to think about and design something myself. Of course with lots of help from others like this.

Also you have figured me out, you always pay somehow. I guess I still choose to pay with my back, very soon that might have to change that ... until then I might have to consider a new name.

I'm really interested to see how this works out. I've been wanting to figure out something similar for both winter camping and elk hunting. Another time that drying equipment is extremely important. It's really annoying driving 1-1.5 hours each way to get to a laundromat (obviously not an option in BWCA).

How about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/12x12-Canvas-Herder-pyramid-on-walls-Sunforger-tent_W0QQitemZ270488333431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efa5c6c77

dave

I would guess you are trying to advertise Dave. The whole point of the post was to avoid the $500 tent. Seems like a little more of a shoe string than I was referring to.

No, I am not trying to advertise anything. That tent is actually located on the opposite side of the state as myself, and I have no connection to it other than seeing it on ebay. When I posted the link, the price was just over $100, so I thought it would be a possibility for your shoe string budget. I also figured it could be a thought provoking post to help someone look inside the box, from a different angle. There are a lot of different tent manufactures out there that have been doing this for a long time, and maybe you don't have to spend the hours to put something together to get the job done. I am one who loves to make my own "stuff", but sometimes it is just not worth the time and effort when something is commercially available for a little bit more than my rigged up solution.

Just my $.02.

dave

First, some quick background. I’ve been winter camping in the BWCA for about 15 years. I have only used a tent a couple of times (never heated) when there was very little snow or our schedule didn't allow time to make an adequate shelter. We have spent many nights in a quinzee with temps around -40 with the coldest being somewhere below -50 actual. I recommend learning to make a quinzee and trying it out. If done properly it is safe, warm, comfortable peaceful etc. You will love it.

That all being said… they can be a lot of work to build and burn up a ton of time on the first day out in the woods. They are also not very conducive to hanging out and playing cards in. We usually ended up completing the shelter late into the evening, after a long hike, chilled and fatigued, which can be a pretty scary condition to be in deep in the north woods. The consensus in my group is to try migrating to a warm tent setup and possibly move our trip to a more hospitable time of the year than mid January when we historically go. After all these years I’m willing to give it a try.

So, although I have a fair amount of winter camping experience I am green as grass when it comes to warm tent setups. The one thing I do know is I share the other posters enthusiasm for going as inexpensive as possible and building some of my own gear. I will float my ideas and then humbly take any feedback from those of you who have “been there, done that”.

First, the tent. I was given a 10x13 (old) Coleman Oasis canvas tent from a buddy who couldn’t figure out how to erect it and didn’t want to store it. I know these old family tents are still out there, you just need to ask around. I’m hoping this is an OK base for a winter tent. It has a tarp floor and metal poles. The metal poles have a plastic ends and some plastic clips that will need to be somehow retrofitted. (Never rely on anything plastic at severely cold temps that you haven’t thoroughly tested.) I’m adding a stove jack tonight. The stove jack will be made from the material you can buy at Home Depot that feels like felt but plumbers put behind joints when soldering. This stuff will not burn or melt. I intend to glue it in place with fabric glue.

The stove I completed last week. After reading the post from Portagekeeper I was inspired to go to the garage and look for something I owned that could be converted to a woodstove. I must say I think I nailed it. I’m not much of a tinkerer but in a few short hours with almost no expense I was able to convert an old 5 gallon gas can onto a fantastic light weight camping stove. The stove does not break down to a small form factor but I hardly see that as a draw back since it makes a fine durable container for bringing things in and out of the woods on your sled. I have done a couple of test burns and it seems to work great. I need to test it in the confines of the tent and build a collapsible stand. I would be happy to share the plans if anyone is interested. I haven’t had time to document the construction as of yet.

If anyone has suggestions as to the nuts and bolts of using the kind of setup I have proposed I would be interested in hearing them. I’m particularly interested as to common problems with a tent after a few days in regards to condensation, freezing in, snow load etc. Thanks.

That is awesome fallsy on the stove I think it looks like it will work great. that was a great post from portage keeper. If I had not already purchased most of my materials I would have done something similar to save a few dollars. My stove is almost complete, with three kids I have had a hard time finding the time to work on it. I ended up spending about $75 on it and will post a picture as soon as I can and a review on how it works once I try it out.

I agree on the old canvas tents I have not gotten my hands on one but if you look on Craig's list every once in a while one shows up as portage keeper mentioned.

Also a great tip on the plumbers felt, I am going to go check it out as soon as I can.

Great post thanks for the help!

Jerry

P.S. I did not mean to offend you Dave, I guess I jumped to the wrong conclusion on your post sorry for the misunderstanding. I am looking for all of the ideas that I can find.

This is for Heavycanoe or anyone else who may be interested. I received this as a reply from a Craig's list add I posted awhile back. This sounds like a good tent at a good price, just not what I'm looking for right now. Here is the info the gentleman sent me. Still available as of 12/2/09. Here is a link I found from the manufacturer. I believe the guy is in Park Rapids.

http://www.rklodges.com/Lodges/A-frame/bell.html

if you are stii looking for a tent ??? I have a new bell back wedge. hevey wt fire resestant canvis with the chimeny hole for the stove pipe. it is about 8+ 12 with the bell back . also have the Poles . it was made by RK lodges . cost $300.00 will sell for $200.00 if interested call 218 732 9151 Norm or email normesther7@msn.com

Well I feel like I should give an update to our post. We did get out and camp twice this winter. In fact I find myself feeling disappointed that winter is coming to an end this year. This is not a popular opinion in this part of the country as people are making plans to go south for spring break, I am wondering how far north I have to go to still find snow to pull the sled. With the three kids I have to plan ahead and cannot just wait for a spring snow storm to hit.

I am not sure I accomplished the shoestring budget or not it still seemed pretty expensive to me to get this hobby started but we did it as cheaply as we could. Here is a recap on expenses.

Thanks to Fallsy we were able to buy the $200 tent in the previous post. Rob and I split this expense. It was cheaper to pay UPS to ship it than it was to pick it up with the price of gas so it cost us $230. We had Norm ship the canvas only and not the heavy stakes and wood supports. So we had to purchase and make these for another $30-$40. As portage keeper mentioned this is a very heavy tent the canvas itself was 35 lbs I never weighed two 8 ft and on 12 ft 2x4 and 24 stakes. I almost don't want to know. So it would be appropriate to call me heavy-tent now.

I did build the wood stove and it was also more expensive than I thought it would be. I think it cost me about $80 in supplies. It worked pretty well though. I bought a used army surplus intermediate cold weather sleeping bag on ebay for $30. I think this was an older version than I was issued when I was in the army which was 20 years ago, so this was no where near new technology, my plan all along was to combined that with a summer bag. Rob bought a nice winter bag I think Eureka that he paid a little less $100.

I did buy a couple of misc items like a tea pot for hot water on the wood stove can't think of other items right now but these were probably items that can be used in the summer as well. That amounted to probably another $50 or so.

So the final tally is

Tent – Rob and I split the cost of the tent so with shipping and supplies we spent about $135 a piece
Stove -$80
Sleeping bag $30
Other gear - $50

Total - $295 somehow it seemed more expensive than this.

I added a trip report

Trip Report