Hey Guys,

As I get closer to 40 than I do 30, I'm starting to dip my toes into the Kevlar canoe world. I've tripped with heavy royalex canoes for too long.

However, most of my experiences with kevlars included my dad's old Blue Water...and that thing was scary tippy.

As I search the classifieds, what brand/model sacrifices speed for stability?

As always, much appreciated.

Initial and final stability have much more to do with the design of the canoe compared to the material. An example is a flatter bottom canoe will feel stable Initially, but will be easier to tip with some leaning, as opposed to a rounder bottom that will feel more tippy initially, but it will take more of a lean to get it to completely tip over.

My J200 racing canoe had poor initial and final stability, but it was very fast. What is your focus for paddling? I find the Wenonah website gives a good reference to this.

Thanks for the response.

I have looked at the Wenonah website. Definitely a great resource.

We basecamp, so most of our paddling is done without a load and for the purposes of fishing. Sometimes moving, sometimes sitting still.

I don't see a lot of Wenonah Boundary Waters come for sale very often...

So I was just wondering about the experiences people had with other brands.

I'd argue that most popular modern tandems are going to feel pretty stable so long as you aren't trying to stand up in them or do anything too wild.

We rented a Northstar Northwind 18 last year and felt secure in somewhat choppy water with me and two young inexperienced paddlers, both loaded and empty. We didn't fish out of it though.

If you want the most stability the Wenonah Boundary Waters, Basswood or Champlain are good places to start. The Spirit II will be more well rounded. Also a Souris River Quetico 17 would probably fit the bill.

My first ride in my kevlar canoe was "scary tippy" as well. Getting used to it is part of the learning process. And a fully loaded kevlar will feel much more stable as well.

The lightness on the portage also shows up on the water and along with hull shape you get tippy. Lightness also contributes sensitivity to side winds. I paddle a Magic and for the first year I needed ballast but now paddle with only my day pack and still have fun dancing in the waves. There is a learning curve but one well worth the investment.

I have a Northstar Northwind 17. I'd say if you're use to flat bottom canoes it will feel "tippy" but once you get over that you're realize it's incredibly difficult to flip it. I've Canadian style paddled it and you can get the gunwale touching the water and it feels stable as a rock. That's the secondary stability most people talk about.

I started with Royalex then bought a Wenonah Champlain. It's wider than the MN II. I have paddled for over 10 years in this and found it to be very stable and an outstanding tripping boat. And I love the lighter weight for portaging!

Like others have said, the stability really doesn't depend upon the material that makes up the canoe. It's the design.

If you like stability, take a look at a Souris River Quetico 16, 17, or 18. They are fairly light canoes, but they're rock steady stable.

I remember when my son stood up in ours while fishing years ago. At first I thought he was crazy or just showing off. Then I realized that the canoe was really that stable that he was able to stand, cast, and retrieve his line without any fear of tipping us over.

You will sacrifice some speed as a tradeoff for stability often times. So, it boils down to determining how you'd like to feel and how much you can adapt to something a little "tippier".

Try various models out and see what you like. The weight savings is a real bonus with kevlar and other composite canoes.

All the best.

bhouse46: ",,,There is a learning curve but one well worth the investment. "

Similar to learning how to ride a bike, IMO.

we have the souris river quetico 16. their website has all the specs. no issues with stability at all.
actually i keep meaning to take it out in late summer (when the water is fairly warm) and see exactly how hard it is to tip over in the water and then practice how to get back in it. lol
will do it this year for sure.

Souris River Quetico is very stable, I have one and love it. I switched from a Penobscot Roya flex 17 foot canoe.

Wenonah is having a sale in May. Go for it.

Wow! Wenonah Sale.

The Souris River Quetico 16 / 17 are definitely more stable than Wenonah or Northstar / Bell. Great for fishing. You will NOT win any races with the SR, but for me, it’s a trade off that I’m happy with as fishing is a big part of my trips.

AdamX

Thanks for the responses.

I have never tripped with a Souris River before, but from reviews I read on other websites, that was on my radar.

Does anyone know of an outfitter that sells them in the fall?

I've done a couple trips with a rented Northstar. It wasn't bad...definitely better than my dad's old canoe. Like the old joke, it was the type of canoe that you had to move your gum to the middle of your mouth to stabilize it!

IrishPaddler, where do you live? There is a Souris River canoe dealer in Eagle River, WI - Walkabout Sports.

Regarding the SR Quetico 17, on two different trips, I've spent a week paddling and fishing from the bow of one. I'm 6'3" and 250# and was quite comfortable with the leg room and overall stability.

If a Northstar felt tippy (with the exception of the Polaris (maybe) the Northstars are pretty rock solid stable), I'd look to Jackfish's suggestion of Souris River or a Wenonah Champlain.

A key thing about the Souris River Quetico series is that it feels stable both loaded and unloaded. So it works well for a trip that is a combination of loaded days moving from place to place and other days day tripping without a load.

For the BW, we have SR Queticos. But I keep my eye out for stable day tripping canoes out here in California. I've heard that the Wenonah Boundary Waters has a similar hull shape and I've also been intrigued by the Champlain and the Spirit II. But Kevlar canoes are pretty rare in these parts and these days they are also quite pricey.

IrishPaddler13: Does anyone know of an outfitter that sells them in the fall?

you could plan a trip into quetico and get one up here. great exchange rate on the usd.

i assume all the outfitters in the area use the SR canoes and typically sell off used ones each fall. that schedule was messed up due to covid etc but this fall there should be some avail.

you could also contact wayne directly at SR in atikokan. very nice fella. easy to deal with. they often get trade ins that they sell off. sometimes they may even have new ones with small defects that they discount.

you could even see the shop where they make those canoes. he loves to show people how it's done.

Voyageur North in Ely has sold them off in the fall before. Many other outfitters have already sold theirs off.

I own a Souris River Quetico 17 and find it to be very stable. I bought it new six years ago from Souris River and picked it up in Atikokan. That worked well. Before I purchased it, I looked at outfitters selling used ones. As I recall, there were lots of options in Atikokan and Ely.

After a trip with my 19 yr old son a couple years ago I can’t endorse the SR Quetico 17 enough. He had only been on one previous trip so was a novice paddler. We slept in a little too long at our NE site on South Arm and a West wind came up that we didn’t realize until on to the main part of lake—white caps but didn’t look impassable-until we were in it and committed. To this day I have no idea how we didn’t capsize other than the SR Quetico 17, my son putting his head down to paddle as swells came over and me somehow managing to keep us somewhat into the whitecaps. We made it to the portage into Eddy. I owe the SR Quetico 17 a great deal of gratitude as that could have turned out way different. Happy to say my son is hooked on the BWCAW and we look forward to our annual trips (not sure that would be the case if we dumped it).

+1

Love my Souris River Quetico 17. It isn't the fastest boat out there, for sure, but is extremely stable, one of the best in rough seas,and has enough rocker to be fun to fish out of but still enough to not need excessive correcting strokes. They are also a bit tougher than the other brands in my opinion, except for those few years they used a different epoxy and had rib crack issues. They look good in My opinion. The best coloring process for sure, and I like the LeTigre option. All that said, If I were buying today I would probably go with a Northstar Northwind 17. Slightly lighter, a bit faster, slightly less stable, less durable, for sure. But Ted Bell builds a really nice boat.

I agree the my Q17 will outlast many other composite canoes. Ditto my Tranquility.

mgraber: "Love my Souris River Quetico 17. It isn't the fastest boat out there, for sure, but is extremely stable, one of the best in rough seas,and has enough rocker to be fun to fish out of but still enough to not need excessive correcting strokes. They are also a bit tougher than the other brands in my opinion, except for those few years they used a different epoxy and had rib crack issues. They look good in My opinion. The best coloring process for sure, and I like the LeTigre option. All that said, If I were buying today I would probably go with a Northstar Northwind 17. Slightly lighter, a bit faster, slightly less stable, less durable, for sure. But Ted Bell builds a really nice boat."

Epoxy is a harder resin, but the hardness is insignificant compared to the shield country rock. The epoxy advantage is simply sales hype.

As someone that has repaired many canoes from a wide variety of builders I have noted no difference in wear and tear between epoxy and vinyl ester, if anything the epoxy seems to be more prone to uv degradation- unless there is a correlation between SR ownership and lack of canoe storage shelters.

This guide from Clearwater is a bit outdated since it describes the Northwind as being shouldered, and I question when he says the Q17 paddles a lot like the MNII, but it's still interesting.

Choosing the Best Canoe for your BWCA Adventure

Banksiana: "

mgraber: "Love my Souris River Quetico 17. It isn't the fastest boat out there, for sure, but is extremely stable, one of the best in rough seas,and has enough rocker to be fun to fish out of but still enough to not need excessive correcting strokes. They are also a bit tougher than the other brands in my opinion, except for those few years they used a different epoxy and had rib crack issues. They look good in My opinion. The best coloring process for sure, and I like the LeTigre option. All that said, If I were buying today I would probably go with a Northstar Northwind 17. Slightly lighter, a bit faster, slightly less stable, less durable, for sure. But Ted Bell builds a really nice boat."

Epoxy is a harder resin, but the hardness is insignificant compared to the shield country rock. The epoxy advantage is simply sales hype.


As someone that has repaired many canoes from a wide variety of builders I have noted no difference in wear and tear between epoxy and vinyl ester, if anything the epoxy seems to be more prone to uv degradation- unless there is a correlation between SR ownership and lack of canoe storage shelters."

I based my feelings about durability more on the flex rib design than the epoxy. You can practically fold the SR in half and it will be fine when unfolded. Mine saw that when my partner decided we could "float" over the dam out of Little Gabbro. Maybe not as efficient because not as stiff but very durable.