I posted a year ago for advice, and everyone was super helpful. At the time, I already had a Wenonah Champlain, and was looking for a canoe to add flexibility to be able to provide canoes for trips of sizes 1-4 people. Everyone suggested I add a Northwind Polaris as a great canoe that can be used as a solo or tandem, depending the need. I did, and just got back from a trip where I paddled it solo. It was a wonderful canoe!

Now that I'm home, I'm pretty certain I want to sell the Wenonah Champlain and buy a different canoe. It's a very large canoe, and everyone I trip with is small, our gear is lightweight and compact, and it's just a *lot more* than I need. It's also very wide and very long, which can make storage and transportation more difficult.

I haven't researched much yet, but which tandem canoe would you buy for tripping, fishing, and small folks/compact gear? I'm thinking that replacing it with a Northwind 17 (or Northwind 16?) makes sense. I'm not limiting the options to Northwind, but I do want a lightweight kevlar canoe, which seems to rule out a Souris River 17 (which weighs 44 pounds to the Northwind's 38-40 pounds).

44# is too heavy? Anything under 50# is good, and when the difference is only 4# or so, you're splitting hairs. The SR Q17 is a very nice canoe. Durable, easy to paddle, lots of legroom for the bow paddler and, yes, light weight. I would definitely include it on your short list.

I would go with a Souris River Quetico 17. We rented one this summer in wabakimi. The large guys I was with beat the crap out of it and it held up great. I was impressed so I am buying one now. I carried that thing straight up and over a steep portage and did not notice an extreme difference in weight compared to my northstar magic.

I third the SR Q17.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a Souris River Quetico 17 compared to a Northwind 16/17 or Wenonah MNII?

newguy: "What are the advantages and disadvantages of a Souris River Quetico 17 compared to a Northwind 16/17 or Wenonah MNII?"

I've looked up these canoes extensively online and about the only drawback I've noticed for the Northwind - and someone please correct me if I'm wrong - is that the outer layer is Kevlar which fuzzes when abraded. The outer layer of of the SR17 is fiberglass and is relatively easy to maintain.

Apart from that I cannot speak to their relative performance.

Consider a Wenonah Escape. Sweet, quick, easy to paddle canoe. May not be quite as quick (efficient) as a MNII (although it may be more efficient for smaller paddlers). The paddling position is ideal for smaller folk with the gunwales close to the hips of both bow and stern paddlers.

The Souris River 17 possesses more initial stability than an Escape. The SR is considerably less efficient and, in my opinion, less durable as the cross rib construction makes oil canning more of an issue (almost unknown with a foam core layup). Cross rib construction also reduces bow to stern stiffness further reducing paddling efficiency.

It is my experience that the epoxy resin that SR uses is more subject to UV degradation, though this should not be an issue with proper storage.

Banksiana: "The Souris River 17 possesses more initial stability than an Escape. The SR is considerably less efficient and, in my opinion, less durable as the cross rib construction makes oil canning more of an issue (almost unknown with a foam core layup). Cross rib construction also reduces bow to stern stiffness further reducing paddling efficiency.

It is my experience that the epoxy resin that SR uses is more subject to UV degradation, though this should not be an issue with proper storage."

I will speak to these comments only in general terms because I have no specific knowledge comparing the efficiency of paddling different canoes.

All I will say is that I've spent week-long trips in my buddy's SR Q17, primarily in the bow (since it's his canoe, he got the stern) and it paddled fine, had plenty of legroom, never felt slower (or faster) than any other canoe and it's weight was enjoyable on the portages. Stability was excellent in all aspects, especially fishing.

"Considerably less efficient" and "less durable"? I really don't understand how those two comments could apply to the Q17.

One comment on the Wenonah MN II... if you're considering buying one, be sure to paddle it with your regular bow paddler first. There is very little leg room up front for anyone who is of average height. Very narrow.

Jackfish: "44# is too heavy? Anything under 50# is good, and when the difference is only 4# or so, you're splitting hairs. The SR Q17 is a very nice canoe. Durable, easy to paddle, lots of legroom for the bow paddler and, yes, light weight. I would definitely include it on your short list."

We've rented SR Q17s in Quetico and Woodland Caribou numerous times. They are fine & they haul a load for sure...not a fan of the ribs.

However 4 or 5 pounds is a very heavy split hair, and I for one would have that as a major consideration.

My opinion based on the needs and usage you described:

Go with the Northwind,16 or 17 foot will make a difference though. The 16 is more versatile to potentially solo (although I wouldn't solo a whole trip with it). The 17 has more room for a tripping canoe and will be slightly more stable/track better.

As far as Wenonahs, I would have suggested a Spirit II, but this might be more canoe than what you're after if you enjoy your Polaris for a tripping model and want to downsize from your Champlain. The Minnesota II can move but as others have said they are very narrow in the front and not a great boat to fish from (also 18.5 feet long).

I don't have anything against the SR Q17, but didn't love anything about them either. One of those did everything good boats but nothing about it wowed me (have only used on one trip so not extensive tripping experience with this model).

Two boats I haven't see mentioned are the Wenonah Boundary Waters and the Northstar Seliga. The Seliga has less bow room, almost on par with your Polaris.

I've been able to rent most of the canoes noted above from outfitters to try them on a trip, and Piragis let me try several models that were on hand during an afternoon which provided a lot of in-seat knowledge just by taking them down to Semer park and paddling them around the big island.

My trips are typically single portage, 3-5 days, and bow paddlers are typically 5'9" to 6'3". Fishing happens, but rarely is the trip built around fishing, and on some trips, fishing never happens. I like a fairly stable canoe with some rocker. Shooting for white cap stability and responding to where I want it to go.

So my ranking for the canoes I've used in the BWCA
1) SR Quetico17

2) Wenonah Boundary Waters (virtually a tie with the SR, easier to find in a rental fleet. If your objection to the SR is the rib design vs. foam sheet, then go this route).

3) Northstar Seliga (a touch more width in the bow could/would(?) move this one up. If I owned one, I'd consider moving the front seat back a few inches to get some extra width for the bow paddler, but I don't have spare k's to play with this idea.)

4) Wenonah Spirit II (found it hard to keep my line in a quartering wind. I know several people who use them in the Mississippi backwaters and love this hull)

5) Northstar Northwind (Any time I am out of sync with bow paddler, we develop an annoying roll, further out of sync= more roll. Duplicated with multiple bow paddlers. Took three trips to figure this out. I've asked a few others and they haven't noticed any roll so it might just be me, or they are always in sync with their partner.)

6) Wenonah MNII (Its a straight line animal, and as expected doesn't want to turn. Also narrow in the bow)

As usual your mileage may vary.
Good luck

Having owned both the Northwind and the SR17, I would go with the Northwind. The SR17 was a great canoe when my girls were little; incredibly stable and I always felt safe in it. That said, the thing was a tank to maneuver in rough water. Someone mentioned that the SR17 has a fiberglass outer layer; mine did not-it was a kevlar layup, but I never had any issues with that and I ran that boat hard for 20 years and over 40 trips.

The Northwind 16 I now have is much more maneuverable the SR17. There is one for sale on this site at a pretty decent price.
Northwind 16 For Sale

I have a SR 17, but it is not something you would want to solo on any sort of regular basis (ask me how I know).

For everything else you mentioned though, it's a beast. They are easy to repair because of the fiberglass outer layer.

One downside which I have personally experienced is their tendency to oil-can due to the flexible rib design, though this is generally found on heavily used boats. And the ribs are prone to cracking (which leads to the oil-canning). Again though, they are easily repaired and there are not many boats out there with a larger payload and better stability in all conditions.

As a follow up, since I don't have experience with a Polaris, why not a 2nd Polaris?

I enjoy the Souris River Quetico 17. We've spent many a trip in this canoe. It handles big water/waves (Musclow Lake/Woodland Caribou), can become a good solo boat, stable enough for a labrador, four packs, two people, and a good size fish on the line, but try all the canoes that grab your imagination. Lots of good stuff out there.

I had no idea there were other tandem canoes besides a Minnesota 2, the things we learn here.

cmanimal: "As a follow up, since I don't have experience with a Polaris, why not a 2nd Polaris?"

I figured that some diversity would be good!

I owned a Souris River for 20 years. Great canoe.

I now own a Northwind 17. Great Canoe.

After reading your thoughts and how you liked the Polaris. I’d get the Northwind 16.

The Northwind glides better and you aren’t splitting hairs on weight. Lighter is less work whether it is 1# or 30#. It isn’t the only thing to consider, but it is a factor. The Northwind 16 is 39# the Quetico 17 is 5# heavier.

You could get the Q 16 at 42#, but once again if you liked the Polaris you will like a Northwind model better than the SR Quetico. I am not knocking the SR canoe. They feel more stable. Especially in rough weather, but the Northwind feels more stable than the Polaris in my opinion so for you I’d lean towards the Northwind. The weight and handling will be more to your personal liking based on your OP.

T

Sounds like you're on the right path.

Northstar has a helpful little info sheet that includes the optimal wight loading for their boats (along with hull dimensions and #s for different layups). No sense in buying more boat than you need.

A narrow bow (and for that matter stern) station makes for more efficient and easy paddling. Not sure I understand the concern for wider bow (unless you like your tackle box open below your seat). For the last 15 years my tandem trips have been in MNII or Escape- all my paddling partners have been over 6' and with size 12 or better boots, none have complained about the bow station. Though none of them have been particularly heavy (200# for the largest). The SR 17 paddles more like the Wenonah Boundary Waters/Spirit II. Steady, stable, fairly slow and inefficient. Champlain a little more efficient and can carry more. Northwind 17 quicker yet, Wenonah Escape and MNII even more efficient.

I believe the cross-rib construction reduces durability because the increased flex from stem to stern makes oil canning more likely (this flexibility also reduces efficiency when paddling). If you follow the threads on canoe repair you will note that nearly all the questions about oil canning and hull deformation concern boats manufactured by Souris River. I have been tasked with repair of quite a number of canoes and my experience indicates that cross ribbed hulls are more subject to deformation.

I am biased towards sleek, efficient asymmetrical hulls- eg Northwind, Escape, MNII, SR- Huron/Jensen- more than willing to give up some initial stability for glide.

I just wanted to comment that I think the Northwind 17 is way too much boat for you. I owned a Bell Northwind...the same boat. It felt sluggish compared to a Bell Northstar or Polaris until you got 500 pounds in it, then it started to feel properly loaded. If you state that you are small and light I think it's a poor choice. I think you can't go wrong with a NW16 as someone already recommended (NW16 actually has slightly higher capacity than Polaris), and if the efficiency of the Wenonah Escape appeals to you it could be a great choice and would be a bigger contrast to your Polaris. It's still 17.5 feet but must be better suited to your needs than a NW17 based on banksiana's recommendation.

Banksiana: "A narrow bow (and for that matter stern) station makes for more efficient and easy paddling. Not sure I understand the concern for wider bow (unless you like your tackle box open below your seat).

I am biased towards sleek, efficient asymmetrical hulls- eg Northwind, Escape, MNII, SR- Huron/Jensen- more than willing to give up some initial stability for glide."

For the bow space it’s more about where your feet go. Narrow and short makes your feet feel cramped. They feel like the are on top of each other and you can’t stretch your knees/legs as much. It get’s uncomfortable the longer you are in the canoe and the bigger you are.

The SR is probably the best suited for comfort for the bow paddler but admittedly I am in the stern most of the time and haven’t paddled every boat. My wife and I tried the MN II after using a SR 18.5 and Northwind 17. She is not huge :) 5’7” wears a size 10 shoe and she said never again. The MN II was very uncomfortable. Now we put a lot of miles and time in the canoe on trips so YMMV.

T

There's a store in the Twin Cities offering new Northwind 16s/17s for $2795. I normally wouldn't purchase a new canoe, because I'd rather it already have scratches and I save some money. Is this "too good to pass up" or just a normal sale? Website says retail is $3,195.

newguy: "There's a store in the Twin Cities offering new Northwind 16s/17s for $2795. I normally wouldn't purchase a new canoe, because I'd rather it already have scratches and I save some money. Is this "too good to pass up" or just a normal sale? Website says retail is $3,195."

Not sure how far you're willing to drive but I picked up a used Northwind 17 from Boundary Waters Outfitters in Ely this weekend in excellent condition for $1000. The best deals I've been able to find are from the outfitters at the end of the season. I'm in the same boat (no pun intended) as far as not needing to buy new when I'll likely put a scratch or two in it the first time I take it out even being careful.

newguy: "

cmanimal: "As a follow up, since I don't have experience with a Polaris, why not a 2nd Polaris?"

I figured that some diversity would be good!"

I have 2 Northstar Canoes; a Northwind Solo and a Polaris, but the canoe that makes me want to stray are the Swift canoes. I just like the bright colors. I have never touched nor paddled one.

I've owned a Champlain for tandem tripping for six years. I can't imagine a reason to replace this canoe for any reason.

Kendis: "I've owned a Champlain for tandem tripping for six years. I can't imagine a reason to replace this canoe for any reason."

Well, it's enormous, and neither me, my wife, my kids, nor my gear are enormous.

I'd buy a used canoe in Ely. Your kids will grow all too soon and you will be looking again in 5 yrs. I personally prefer the SRQ's for stability.

OCDave,

Do you ever use the Polaris solo? I would love to hear your comparison of these two canoes.

Jack

catadromous: "OCDave,


Do you ever use the Polaris solo? I would love to hear your comparison of these two canoes.


Jack"

I have paddled the Polaris solo but, just kneeling. I don't have a center seat nor paddling thwart. I prefer paddling from my knees, even when in the Northwind Solo but, after about 30 minutes my toes go numb. The Polaris is a lot wider and much more cumbersome as a solo than the Northwind Solo. It's as if the Northwind Solo is a sportscar and the Polaris is a Sedan. I can get where I want to go paddling solo in the Polaris but it is a slower, less precise process. Windy days with choppy water doesn't deter me when in the Solo. The Polaris, paddled solo is a bit harder to manage in those conditions.

I have also paddled the Solo with my wife seated on the floor in front of me. That is not a fun experience. The rear rocker comes up and the back end catches course altering wind.

The Polaris functions better as a solo than the Solo functions as a tandem but as I have both, I choose the best tool for the job.

newguy: "There's a store in the Twin Cities offering new Northwind 16s/17s for $2795. I normally wouldn't purchase a new canoe, because I'd rather it already have scratches and I save some money. Is this "too good to pass up" or just a normal sale? Website says retail is $3,195."

If ya can afford it, I’d buy new. That’s a good deal. In all the years of owning a canoe you won’t put as much wear and tear as an outfitter canoe in one year.

Also outfitter canoes usually are different than consumer. Internal AND external skid pates, maybe extra Kevlar…depends on the outfitter. But outfitter canoes typically weigh more than advertised for those reasons.

Don’t get me wrong the outfitter used canoes can be good deals, just if ya can afford it giving my my preference and the reason why to go new.

T

Piragis just posted up all the 1 year old canoes they have, I'm guessing they have some nice deals and some that are in great condition.

AlexanderSupertramp: "Piragis just posted up all the 1 year old canoes they have, I'm guessing they have some nice deals and some that are in great condition."

Piragis is selling a used Northstar 16/17 canoe for 2550, the OP has seen brand new ones for 2750. For just a $200 difference I’d buy new 100x over.

Even if you couldn’t get a deal on a new canoe…Piragis is only discounting their canoes 20% off of full price after a year of outfitter use. Probably the best taken care of canoes and least beat on but not a great deal. Not a rip off, just not great either.

I’d personally still buy new for my previous reasons. If ya can afford it.

T

Pioneer Midwest is the Twin Cities shop offering those discounts (not advertised on their site–mention you saw the Craigslist posting).

Piragis' boats are generally in better shape than most outfitters, rented for only one season and with any necessary repairs made. Still hard to justify only $250 off if you're also paying sales tax plus the cost/logistics of getting it from Ely.

^FWIW I've had good experiences buying boats and skis from Pioneer. Would recommend.