Hex and I have talked about it, and I know all of you do it... that is stare at the maps of the BWCA and wish and wonder where you would like to go next. But when you get to the BWCA... What do you use to guide you around. Personally, I use a Fisher Map, and a Garmin GPS 72 handheld. I go to Maptech.com amd use their maps to get my actual GPS co-ordinates other than those I have personally marked while in the BWCA. Maptech, has a free online service where you can actually pull up the map or area you want to go to and move your mouse and at the side it will give you the co-ordinates of where your mouse it... and it has different readings for those different cordinates that you might use. But it is a very handy tool. I do not carry a compass, while I know a lot of you use a compass and would not leave home without it, but while I have used compasses before, I do not trust them as much as I do my battery powered GPS... I know... Carry plenty of batteries... it gets about 16 hours of use on two alkaline AA's. So here's the question again... what do you use to guide yourself around??

Bruce

I guess I am old fashioned.

I use my Fisher map and my compass. Thats all. I have been doing it for years and have only been "Temporarily Misplaced" a couple of times in all of my years. Guess I'll stay with the compass.

BTW-I do have a GPS I have used while backpacking, I just have never taken it with to the BW.

Hey Bog, nothing with old fashion... I wish I knew how to use one better. Then I would carry one along just in case. Only time I ever used one was when there was Fog on the Arkansas River when I was going Duck Hunting and I used it to find a heading to follow to go to the island I hunted. But, now with my GPS I just punch in "island" and it gives me the information I need, either an arrow to follow or a breadcrumb trail to back track to get there. It is neat to use the Maptech cordinates and put them into the GPS and then go to where you marked, and see how close you are...
Bruce

I am also a map and compass traveler. I carry McKenzie maps, others in the group reference Fisher maps. We have only been disoriented a few times also. I think the maps are detailed enough that the compass is sometimes just a point of reference.... But I have felt the need for it when I didn't have it available.

The more I hear about GPS the more I would like to play with one though. Maybe not for the B-Dub application but definitly for marking "fishin holes" on secluded streams.

Hex

I agree hex. I have been playing with mine and may upgrade to a version with more memory and features. Right now I have an old Garmin etrex Venture. Has enough features to get me started but needs more memory. I may upgrade and actually play with it in the future in the BW.

While I carry several compasses, usually dead reckoning is good enough. The one exception to this for me seems to be heading out from the landing toward the first portage. For some reason, having the right azimuth there is pretty important. After that, the compass mostly just tells me that I am going the way that I thought.

BTW – I have a strap-on compass around the thwart that is directly in front of my seat on all my canoes. It is nice to take a quick glance at the compass any time I like.

TB

The GPS I have is good for marking fishing spots too. I have marked several here at home and will use it more later for that. This year I am getting a mount where I can mount it on the thwart or cross piece in front of my canoe seat where it is easily visible. What I do when I come to a portage is mark it, I also mark good campspots, for instance on the CCBB someone gave me the coordinates of a good campsite on Thomas, now all I have to do is enter it and name it and when I hit the lake punch "goto" and enter the waypoint and paddle to it. The thing I like about mine is that it is really easy to use, and it is easy to enter coordinates and way points. It will also tell you how fast you are paddling, distance traveled, average speed, top speed, and how long you are actually moving, stopping and etc... I know that may not interest a lot of folks, but it is fun to play with. Since I have bought mine they have come out with neat ones that radios that will show you where you are on a map in relation to the other party members when you talk to them. I have nothing against a compass and I admire those of you who can use them efficiently... Like I said before, I will carry a compass as a backup, and I will have my maps, but it is just easier for me to use the GPS to mark all the interesting things. Also, I can give the coordinates to others who have a GPS and want to go where I have been. By the way... If you get a chance to go to maptech.com and look at their stuff, do it... it is interesting and it will give some coordinates to enter into your GPS and see how close it really is. It is neat how we all have developed our individual ways of getting to the places we love to go in God's country... the BWCA and Quetico. The greatness of it all is being there...
Bruce

I have been getting around with only a McKenzie and recently purchased a compass.

A hiking partner of mine used a GPS in Yosemite. He knew exactly how many miles we had traveled and to what elevations. The latter part I could do without, especially after climbing 4000 ft. but in a rugged place, where only a helicopter is pulling you out, a GPS is becoming indispensible. Lucky for us, the BWCA is rugged enough to make one handy. Dear Santa......

I use Mckenzie maps and a brunton eclipse compass. i have only been lost one time, and i was actually in the right place, i was just disoriented. has anyone ever tried canoeing at night? I heard a story about a guy who's partner broke his leg and this guy paddled 2 days and 2 nights straight through to get him out. i couldn't imagine trying to do that. also, i've been trying to get ahold of any old logging maps or mining maps of the bwca. does anyone know if any still exist, or where to get them?

I have never been lost-only temporarily misplaced. I suspect it is the same with you. LOL

kclamken,

If you look closely on the McKenzie maps in areas you can find some old logging trails. I wondered what the black dotted lines were for the longest time till we were in the PMA's last year and crossed a couple.
Another trick is to compare the online maps on this site or terra server and cross reference the topo maps with the areal photos. You will be able to see trails on the areal photo that don't exist according to the map. I use this frequently to navigate the logging roads here in the U.P.

Hope this helps,
Hex

i have a huge collection of maps that almost borders on an addiction
i have everything from prim maps to fisher to Mckenzie(bad spelling)
to maps i got from an ex-girlfriend who worked for the dnr (search and rescue maps i think). i've also gone to the U (u of m) in the map area of their libary (oh so extensive) and photo copied things, poseing as a student.
i do much more camping in the north woods than just the bwca, as a matter of fact ive been out every weekend for the past 4 now and am going out again this thurs night. so i neeeeeeeed lots of maps to see who owns what and the such.
but as far as getting where im goin i use a garmin too. and bring a fisher map with me.
im glad too see the post about maptech though i think they'll be able to feed my addiction even more.

good luck fishin too all
and remeber keep only dinner for the night and make em small

Saw this thread from the past and decided to bring it back up. Not sure what other people do, but in a pinch this works well.

With just a fisher map,....try to orient yourself before setting off, or when first arriving on a new lake. Stand on a known location marked on your map, such as a portage trail or campsite. Point the map in the direction you wish to travel, using your initial and intended points of travel to create a line. Now, sight across the map, and looking out into your intended path, view your route. Take note of major features along your route and use them to help guide you. I generally try to notice all major points, large islands and possibly any vertical features that may help me to keep track of where I am. If there are many islands together, I try to keep view of the largest island when possible. This may sound simple, but if you keep track of where you are, it's pretty hard to get lost. I have passed smaller points, bays or islands and briefly mistaken them for my next 'check point'; it is good to stay alert first time on a bigger lake.

I don't have GPS and have never used my compass, although I always bring it. So far have only taken 2 wrong turns when not paying attention, but was lucky and discovered my mistake within minutes. You can use this to travel across land with remarkable accuracy as well. Have used this sight-line method in the past to find property corners on large, wooded lots when nothing else was visible to define the property line.

I use Fisher maps and dead reckoning. I do carry a compass, but I have not had to use it. I find half the fun trying to figure it out where I am going after checking at the map and looking at the surrounding area. I have made mistakes, but sometime I get to see something I wouldn't have seen otherwise. I have never gotten lost.

Marc - I used to be able to say that. Then I travelled to the Numbered Lakes and Insula.

Adding to me confusion was the fact that my son - who normally has a great sense of direction - was 1000 miles away. Dad isn't has good with a map and compass as he thought he was - though I will say that I found the aforementioned lakes to be harder to navigate that the 100 mile Hunter Island loop I did in Quetico!

Bought a GPS and topo maps to augment my declining skills.

I'm in the Fisher map and dead reckoning crew, also. I have gotten seriously turned around once, interestingly enough on the numbered lakes! I'm starting to notice a pattern here. We tried to take a "portage" that ended up being a moose trail. I was too stubborn to admit that I was probably lost. One of our group fell portaging and cracked a rib...it was a seriously humbling experience that could have ended much worse than it did.
Moral of the story- anyone can get turned around. No matter what method of navigation you choose, if you aren't sure where you are, stop and figure it out. If you must, backtrack carefully to the last place that you can positively identify. Better safe than sorry!

Yeah, I don't do GPS, Call me an old stick in the mud, but the only electronic device I carry camping ever is my headlamp. I definatley belong to the McKenzie map and dead reconing crew. I take a compass, but I have rarely used it, and mostly it is when I'm in the forest and don't have the shore line to guide off of. I just don't like the idea of relying on gadgets, and carrying around tons of batteries. Besides, modern innovations like GPS, kind of take some of the fun out of wilderness camping.

For me it is Fisher and McKenzie maps. I also use my compass most of the time. I like to shoot an azimuth to the next portage or landmark (point, island or whatever stands out) on the map. If it is a lake that you can see across you can pick out a landmark near the next portage landing and paddle right to it.
The only time I have been confused (not lost) is when I was in a hurry and did not pay attention and portaged into the wrong lake.

I love my compass!
It's great when you learn how to use it. As long as you know where you are. You can use your map and shoot an azimuth to anyplace you want to go (campsite, portage or mark your fishing hot spot).

A variety of maps, a compass, good advise! I also use a GPS as a check to my nav skills, and to navigate in fog, and poor visibility. Great for finding that spot that has no visible landmarks.

butthead

Fisher maps and a compass. I have a GPS, rarely get it out (came in very handy on the Pow Wow Trail, with the MacKenzie maps that have GPS coordinates for the trail). I have a friend who doesn't bother with a compass. He's usually O.K. but he spent an extended afternoon being "temporarily misplaced" in the southwest end of Insula. He still won't bring a compass but I think his pride is trumping his intelligence!

Part of the beauty of the BWCA is the variety of things you can enjoy...for me the navigation is a major joy. I use a Suunto sighting compass and a Fisher map (switching to McKenzie this year). I will shoot the azimuth to the next point, tell everyone in my group a easy to see landmark close to the point and have them head for that. That way everyone knows where we are going and they don't have to follow. Every portage I will tell and show everyone in the party were we are.
I do carry a GPS but that is more for fun for me than a necessity I like fiddling with all the gadgets.

It is more practical than you may think, the ability to shot a good azimuth and sight that with a good pair of binoculars helps you avoid traveling to campsights that are already occupied.

To me its all good, kinda like double portaging..it is all good!

I have to admit that I have never learned to use a compass. Is there a good book or website that I can use to learn?

I have to disagree with beavers on the usefulness of shooting an azimuth, I rarely cross a lake in a straight line, I usually take the long route around the shore cause it's easier and safer. and an azimuth wouldn't really help much. Although if I were raceing and I needed to know the fastest way from point A to point B It would come in handy. Dog wood girl try learn-orienteering.org, go to the bottom of the page and click on the illustrated guide to using a compass, or buy a boy scout book, those things amaze me.

If you shoot an azimuth to a portage landing you do not have to travel in a straight line to it. I look for a large tree, boulder or anything that stands out as a landmark. You can then paddle along the shore. Just look for your landmark and hopefully paddle right to the portage.

BTW - Cliff has a lot of map and compass how to in most of his books.

I always carry a compass, and I know how to use it. I also carry a GPS, which so far, has been a fun toy and an unused backup system. For me, the key to lake navigation is developing a sense of scale that relates what I see on the lake to what I see on the map. Once I can look out at a couple of islands or points and get a feel for their size and distance, and relate that to inches on the map, then I'm ready to go. I paddle along, constantly following my position on the map. I rarely get the compass out, but I frequently have my finger on the map. Of course navigating in dense fog or darkness is a different story, which I try to avoid.

I tend to rely on my Fishers and 30 year old Silva Ranger from my college days in Forest Management at UW-Stevens Point and the NPS in post-college years. Never had a problem translating from paper to compass.

I will say that I have been toying with the idea of a GPS - seems like a lot of you folks use them... I might give it a try this year.

Andy

I also use just Fisher maps and compass and have no problems navigating yet.

Dogwoodgirl, a good compass will come with pretty good instruction for use in the wild and with maps.

I also use a compass and a map only, also I print off lake maps from the MN DNR site for the lakes we will be paddling on..

Could have used GPS last couple years. There are a couple portages I was sitting right in front of and still couldn't see until out of the boat and on shore. One last year, I looked around by a creek, but read the map wrong it was 100' past the creek. Could have saved me some time and uncertainty, but would have missed looking around :~)

If I ever catch up on my gear want list, maybe will be able to end my GPS envy!

Always a map and compass guy. I've used both Fisher and McKenzie, but I like the added detail of the MC's. Also the colors are a bit easier on the eyes than yellow. I agree with Beavers, As long as you know where you're heading, then you don't need to take that straight line. Just because I use a compass doens't mean I shoot an azimuth and bee-line every lake I come to. SOme lakes don't need maps to navigate.

We crossed Saganaga from East to west one time and you needed to count how many islands you passed because there is no map that makes the scale of paddling speed seem relevant. 2 days later we crossed Sea Gull from west to east and had a hard time navigating through all the islands. We weren't lost, but I didn't know which island we were moving around, but with a compass I could point in a general direction and go to the next largest landmark. dead reckoning won't work if there is no sun out and you're in a mess of islands wondering which is which. It also won't work well on land. I have good direction, but its proven that you will veer off course if you continuew to walk without checking your position.

Last year I started bringing my GPS just for a hobby's sake. I wanted to know how fast we travelled and so I could mark our campsites and other notes. We were in a PMA with no marked campsites or prtages so having it didn't matter much other than I had topo map data on it so I could plot the best course through the PMA. Even still, we bushwacked it using the compass. Keep your heading and follow your gut.

I agree it would be hard to go straight for a long distance through the trees by eyeballing a map. But for a short distance with the plat on a plot of land it works ok. Some of the early original section corners (ok the real bad ones) were set using a compass, and distance paced by burning a cigarette while riding on horseback. How's that for accuracy lol.

Map and compass, and I rarely use the compass.
Got slightly confused in SW corner of Insula on first visit there. Actually got the compass out.
I just like to depend on my map, my eyes and my brain. Most electronic devices in my life get threatened with a hammer quite often. I like to think that being slightly "confused" and relying on your outdoor skills is part of the adventure.

Arkansas Man: An old thread but still a timely subject. Did you ever get that mount for your Garmin? For mine, I clamped a RAM mount on the canoe thwart in front of me and the GPS was always in hands-free full view. Very solid, but I still need to find the right diameter base clamp for it. Since we rent our canoes each trip, I don't always know exactly what diameter thwart to expect.

I've taken a GPS into the BW twice now. Two years back, it was a Garmin 45XL that I got on eBay. I thought it was the cats, especially for returning to a fishing spot (and it did prove itself by pointing out a campsite to go back to after all 8 of us cruised on by, not believing) but with no mapping capabilities I was still watching the paper maps closely and taking readings. Then last year I went in with a Lowrance iFinder ExpeditionC mapping GPS with a lake chip installed. Heaven. Oh, I'm glad I know my old-fashioned compass skills -- put red in the shed and follow Fred... -- with the mapping GPS, I rarely looked at the map and never got the Silva out of the thwart bag. With the LakeMaster or Navionics chip installed, it shows very detailed shorelines (and depth contours for many lakes), even the tiniest little islands and creeks. It's just like seeing yourself gliding across your McKenzie map.

Maps, compass(rarely use), and dead reckoning. One method that I'm sure a lot of people use that hasn't been mentioned is to look at the tree line and topography. Generally the portages and rivers can be found looking for the dips and valleys in the distant tree line. I realize this does not always hold true but thought it was worth mentioning.

Schweady,
Yes I did get the mount and it is mounted on the thwart in front of the stern seat and works great... However, I mainly use the GPS for trip data as I have been the same way the last two years and have a good sense of direction there now. This year we will be doing it a little different by bringing the camper and camping outside the BWCA and day tripping on several lakes, so I may use it to bread crumb some paths or pre load some picto's or fishing areas...

Bruce

Combo of fisher for the acuracy, Mac kendizie for the detail. My compass. Very simple. Great wilderness skill especially if you get lost.

I always use the compass and maps. I use both Fisher & McKenzie maps but will choose one over the other depending on the route I'm taking. I don't really need the compass most of the time but do use it on travel days to find the portages more quickly.

Same as motdur. Fisher maps and dead reckoning. I do bring along a compass though. The terrain features can tell you alot and I am trusting the accuracy of my maps. Todd

Maps(usually a set of each), compass(rarely need), and good old common sense! Has never let me down yet! I've only been "temporarily misplaced" for a few brief times.

Bruce,
I used this same response on the fishing forum under depth finder.

I bought an Eagle Cuda 250 GPS/Fishfinder. I took my sit-on-top kayak to Insula last year. My two sons were in a canoe. They hauled most of the gear. Lucky me. I mounted the unit on the top of the kayak and placed the 12 volt battery inside the kayak. The transducer read through the hull. It was perfect for locating drop-offs, weeds, structure and also fish. The GPS part of it was great! I'll never go up there without it again. The maps that came with it showed all of the lakes. There was enough detail to navigate from Lake One to Insula without missing any turns. It also traces your route, making it very easy to go back over the same route on your way home.