Went in to Wood Lake yesterday and was surprised to see two rowboats. I was a little rude inquiring about legality, but the rower said they rented from an outfitter. What are the regs?

I may be late to this, but what is the actual difference between a rowboat and a canoe? Aside from the obvious. Rule-wise, I suppose I'm asking about.

Rowboats use an oar that is a lever with a fulcrum. Thus, under the rules it qualifies as a machine (albeit a simple one). My wife loves to row and we have an alumacraft setup with a Spring Creek rowing rig. It is really fast compared to paddling.

I always thought rowboats were allowed just no one uses them

I've seen those rowboats on Wood as well. Funny, because I never see rowboats anywhere else, but every time I go through Wood I see those rowboats. The people paddling never seem to have gear.
I noticed one year there were rowboats stashed in the weeds on the east side of the put-in.

That portion of Wood Lake is outside the official BW border.

andym: "Rowboats use an oar that is a lever with a fulcrum. Thus, under the rules it qualifies as a machine (albeit a simple one). My wife loves to row and we have an alumacraft setup with a Spring Creek rowing rig. It is really fast compared to paddling."

Makes sense in a purist manner. Curious to see what the actual ruling is on this.

We used to use those back in the 70’s before wood was Bwca. Used to split the lake where now it’s pretty much all bw. My hunting buddies cousin who grew up in Ely worked for outfitter who had them down there and we’d use them to duck hunt. We carried a little three hp merc down there with over a hundred decoys. (Two separate blinds). We’d go mea weekend and almost always dealt with ice. One year going in we met a couple in a canoe desperately chopping their way out. They were so happy to see us at four am. Back then it was a good bluebill flyway. Oh the memories!

I've always thought that the no rowing rule was going too far and needs a legal challenge. If you are paddling, your lower hand is the fulcrum. I'd like to see Adirondack guideboats on the lakes. I wonder if rowing, and sailing for that matter, is legal on motor-legal lakes?

"Watercraft with types of rowing devices that were in regular use in the
BWCAW, prior to the 1979 BWCAW Act, are permitted. "

Superior National Forest Plan document, "BWCAW Management Direction" section

nctry: "We used to use those back in the 70’s before wood was Bwca. Used to split the lake where now it’s pretty much all bw. My hunting buddies cousin who grew up in Ely worked for outfitter who had them down there and we’d use them to duck hunt. We carried a little three hp merc down there with over a hundred decoys. (Two separate blinds). We’d go mea weekend and almost always dealt with ice. One year going in we met a couple in a canoe desperately chopping their way out. They were so happy to see us at four am. Back then it was a good bluebill flyway. Oh the memories!"

I'd like to hear more duck hunting stories from the BWCA. Can you go to the hunting forum and tell some more? The ducks fly-way has definitely moved west.

thistlekicker: ""Watercraft with types of rowing devices that were in regular use in the BWCAW, prior to the 1979 BWCAW Act, are permitted. "

The problem with this is the farther we get from 1979 the less visitors or law enforcement know about what was in regular use. Is the drop-in fixed seat rowing station I have for my Prospector legal? I have always gotten "no" as an answer from inquiries to the USFS.

I would be happy with rowing being legal on the motorized lakes. I think that would be fair. There is no nicer way to troll for lakers.

sedges: "I've always thought that the no rowing rule was going too far and needs a legal challenge. If you are paddling, your lower hand is the fulcrum. I'd like to see Adirondack guideboats on the lakes. I wonder if rowing, and sailing for that matter, is legal on motor-legal lakes?"

I agree, but would you need a motor permit, paddle permit or would they make a row only permit. I’m sure you can with a motor permit anyways.

In 2015 saw a grungy looking dude in a rowboat on the Granite River route just north of Clove Lake. He looked like he'd been in the wilderness for 3 months.

That rowboat looked heavy, I always wondered how in the heck he portaged it.

In college some of us would take a 19 foot square stern and put 2 rowing rigs (spring creek) on it and make good time to whatever lake we were headed for. Never were questioned by any USFS or game wardens.

I was on Basswood lake earlier this year and saw two rowing rigs and had the same question. The first was an aluminum fishing boat just north of the no-motor line. I assumed they dismounted the outboard and rowed further up the lake. The second was a solo canoe that was seen rowing across basswood one morning up by the falls.

Actually saw someone with a rowing setup on a what looked like a newer wenonah canoe on our trip in May trolling around Gabbro Lake. They even had float stabilizer arms on each side. I had no idea there was a question that it could be legal or not.

years ago I would see this rowing setup on a kevlar canoe at the LGabbro landing /portage/EP and have also seen a row boat launching just before dusk at Brule Lake landing. In talking with them, both gents were fishing and had it dialed in - they knew where they were headed and how long it took them to get there.


Not the BW, but speaking of fishing from rowboats...

andym: "Rowboats use an oar that is a lever with a fulcrum. Thus, under the rules it qualifies as a machine (albeit a simple one). My wife loves to row and we have an alumacraft setup with a Spring Creek rowing rig. It is really fast compared to paddling."

under this methodology, using a standard canoe paddle is also a machine, as your lower arm would be considered a fulcrum. So under this theory, a standard canoe being powered by a paddle is considered a machine.

I was looking through pictures of a recent trip last night and ended up reading the sign at the Clearwater entry point. The last bullet point reads "However, rowboats are permitted."

Maybe I should stop asking and just do it.

thegildedgopher: "I was looking through pictures of a recent trip last night and ended up reading the sign at the Clearwater entry point. The last bullet point reads "However, rowboats are permitted."


"

Although rowboats are considered mechanized and technically are against the rules, they were allowed as a compromise in passing the BWCAW Wilderness Act. So yes they are allowed as your post shows in clear writing.

T

when you could motor across Seagull (pre 1996) some groups would portage a rowboat into Alpine and fish those falls (May)
havent seen that in awhile thou ;)

The rowboats on Wood belong to Red Rocks. He rents them to his customers.

There was a canoe with a rowing setup on it on Lake Three years ago. We were both on our way out but we beat them paddling because of the extra time that they had to spend portaging. After that I gave up on the idea of trying them out.

I agree. If much portaging is involved there is no advantage.

I have been contemplating what my trips will be like as I age. I am considering some big lake basecamps so there are day trips to do without portaging, or easy portaging. Brule(S. Temperance), Saganaga(Red Rock) and Basswood would be fun. These trips are likely to be solo, so having the rowing station will be an advantage in the wind. With the Prospector I could bring in more fresh food and more comfortable sleeping arrangements for my old bones.

Here is the simple rig. Getting the fulcrum outside the boat allows for efficient use of 7' oars. I easily keep pace with tandem paddlers.

aholmgren: "years ago I would see this rowing setup on a kevlar canoe at the LGabbro landing /portage/EP and have also seen a row boat launching just before dusk at Brule Lake landing. In talking with them, both gents were fishing and had it dialed in - they knew where they were headed and how long it took them to get there.


Not the BW, but speaking of fishing from rowboats... "

A couple of years ago, I saw an older gent with a rowing rig on a Bell canoe. He was fishing, in Gabbro.
I just assumed it was legal ?

Guessing he was a local.

Jim

One never knows how the Forest Service will interpret a rule, so be careful because common sense is normally not a factor when they do.
In the past, banning oar locks had been discussed but don't know what, if anything, was decided.
Sailboats were banned from Basswood because of a hinge (mechanical) on the mast made it illegal. The judge was asked if the hinges everyone has on their glasses were also banned? They were not :)

A few years ago I was on a basecamp fishing trip on Seagull Lake. One of the guys (a big dude who doesn't feel safe in canoes) rowed all the way down the lake to our campsite.

I have no problem with rowboats on motorized lakes--even on the parts of those lakes that are not motorized.

shock: "when you could motor across Seagull (pre 1996) some groups would portage a rowboat into Alpine and fish those falls (May)
havent seen that in awhile thou ;)"

I remember those days. And some didn't know the rules in 1997- or just dropped the motor earlier. Saw others and personally landed my biggest ever (50") catch huge Slimers feeding on Suckers at the Jasper / Alpine falls.

BWRAW?

BWRBAW??

It's been a while, but I know I've seen at least one rowboat on Brule, sometime after the 10hp motor allowance expired.

bobbernumber3: "Went in to Wood Lake yesterday and was surprised to see two rowboats. I was a little rude inquiring about legality, but the rower said they rented from an outfitter. What are the regs?"

Why were you rude? They offend your purist sensibilities maybe? They are perfectly legal and have just as much right to be there as you do.

The Great Outdoors: "One never knows how the Forest Service will interpret a rule, so be careful because common sense is normally not a factor when they do.
"

thegildedgopher: "I was looking through pictures of a recent trip last night and ended up reading the sign at the Clearwater entry point. The last bullet point reads "However, rowboats are permitted."
"

Pardon my naivete, but how could that phrase be interpreted any other way?
p.s. I've had numerous encounters with somewhat unreasonable law enforcement people, including my father, so I am familiar with the persona...

jhb8426: "

The Great Outdoors: "One never knows how the Forest Service will interpret a rule, so be careful because common sense is normally not a factor when they do.
"

thegildedgopher: "I was looking through pictures of a recent trip last night and ended up reading the sign at the Clearwater entry point. The last bullet point reads "However, rowboats are permitted."
"

Pardon my naivete, but how could that phrase be interpreted any other way?
p.s. I've had numerous encounters with somewhat unreasonable law enforcement people, including my father, so I am familiar with the persona..."

Signs can be wrong? Law enforcement is supposed to understand the statute describing the law but with thousands of statutes.....

Clearwater is a motor lake mostly.

K52: "

bobbernumber3: "Went in to Wood Lake yesterday and was surprised to see two rowboats. I was a little rude inquiring about legality, but the rower said they rented from an outfitter. What are the regs?"

Why were you rude?"

Good question, but I don't have a good answer. The words came out of my mouth and then I heard that it didn't sound very nice. I tried to recover as the short conversation ended with "You learn something new everyday... have a good day fishing!"


They offend your purist sensibilities maybe?"
haha. No. I am far from a purist. I violate laws occasionally, I leave traces, I burn trash in fire rings, I use lead jigs and throw pieces of waste fishing line in the water. Probably some other stuff, too. If anything, I was offended that they looked more comfortable in a rowboat

The Great Outdoors: "One never knows how the Forest Service will interpret a rule, so be careful because common sense is normally not a factor when they do.
In the past, banning oar locks had been discussed but don't know what, if anything, was decided.
Sailboats were banned from Basswood because of a hinge (mechanical) on the mast made it illegal. The judge was asked if the hinges everyone has on their glasses were also banned? They were not :)"

Did a lawyer actually ask the judge that question about glasses? No wonder the case was lost, what a dumb analogy :) one is a mechanized method of travel, the other doesn’t have anything to do with travel. I could care less if someone used a sailboat to be honest—I could see a good argument for making them legal but common sense would tell you glasses and sailboats are not relatable. The rule on rowboats being allowed is pretty clear though. They just don’t get used much for practical reasons.

T

I saw a guy in a canoe on Lake Four with a rowing rig attached to the canoe. He was making good time.

timatkn: "

The Great Outdoors: "One never knows how the Forest Service will interpret a rule, so be careful because common sense is normally not a factor when they do.
In the past, banning oar locks had been discussed but don't know what, if anything, was decided.
Sailboats were banned from Basswood because of a hinge (mechanical) on the mast made it illegal. The judge was asked if the hinges everyone has on their glasses were also banned? They were not :)"

Did a lawyer actually ask the judge that question about glasses? No wonder the case was lost, what a dumb analogy :) one is a mechanized method of travel, the other doesn’t have anything to do with travel. I could care less if someone used a sailboat to be honest—I could see a good argument for making them legal but common sense would tell you glasses and sailboats are not relatable. The rule on rowboats being allowed is pretty clear though. They just don’t get used much for practical reasons.
T"

The case was lost because they found that the hinges on the sail mast were "mechanical" for lack of a better term? The question about the hinges on glasses was an attempt to show how ridiculous the argument was, but the sailboat was banned-period.
They also banned Dawn to Dusk pontoon service which had a boat that catered to the Veterans and came across the Four Mile Portage before they closed it by changing the specs on allowable width if my memory serves me correctly.
As far as your point about the hinges having nothing to do with travel, neither does a power auger, or chain saw! :)
I also think that horses are banned in the BWCAW, but sled dogs are not. Coincidently, the Forest Service uses dog teams to assist them in the winter, but I'm sure that has nothing to do with being allowed?? (yeah, and the check is in the mail ) :)

All those fishing reels with cranks and gears, oh my, makes my heads spin ;)

thistlekicker: ""Watercraft with types of rowing devices that were in regular use in the
BWCAW, prior to the 1979 BWCAW Act, are permitted. "


Superior National Forest Plan document, "BWCAW Management Direction" section "

A minor example of why administrative documents should not be relied on to state the law accurately. The Act was passed and signed into law in 1978, not 1979:

PUBLIC LAW 95-495-OCT. 21, 1978