I will be taking a group of high school students for a 3 night 4 day trip this summer. I have not been responsible for a group this size in the past. I am looking for some advice from anyone who has taken on this type of group. I am sure there are things I am not even thinking about that could impact the success of the trip.

There will be two adults including myself and 6 students. All but one have never been to the BWCA, nor have they had much camping experience period. Most of them have at least some experience in a canoe; however, I do plan on spending some time with them on the water prior to the trip.

For their first trip, I certainly don't want to destroy them with long difficult portages or big scary water. I guess I am looking for any tips or things to consider when canoeing with a group this size. Perhaps ideas for good areas to consider.

My main goal is to create a trip that will result in these kids absolutely falling in love with the area.

I would say get the kids involved in the "where" of the trip. And try to make it their trip. Also I would try to find some falls and a good swimming area.

E-mail sent

Mike

What kinds of things are you doing before the trip to prepare them?

Where are you located? Maybe someone here would be interested in giving a short presentation on canoe camping or provide some thoughts on how to prepare.

I will start off by showing them some videos and pictures of my past trips. I will get them familiar with some of the gear by bringing it in and letting them get their hands on it. I plan on bringing in the tents and having them set them up so they don't have to do it for the first time in the field. We will of course go over safety both in camp and on the water.

My biggest concern is food. When I go, it is with one other person and we pack VERY light. We stick to only dehydrated food and fish of course. I want the kids to enjoy the trip and I know food is a big part of a teen's life! I worry that eating a dehydrated menu for four days will get old for them. I just simply have some anxiety with brining refrigerated food just because I have never done it.

A couple of thoughts based on many trips with youth groups:

1.) Food - I have done freeze dried and put together my own menu from the local grocery. By far the better results were going local. You can do really well with a little planning and a couple of recon trips to your local supermarket. There is a huge array of dried food options that will allow you to avoid the weight of carrying fresh while still having appeal to hungry kids. I know for the past 4 or 5 years (I cant remember before that) we have fed groups of 9 for 5 day trips for around $350.00. If you are a bargain shopper or freeze dry on your own I am sure you could do considerably better.

2.) Know your kids!!! I would recommend spending a day on the water paddling before you ever take them to the BWCAW. You will learn who to put together in a boat as well as who can and can't paddle and portage. It will give you an opportunity to correct a few things before you leave. We have made this a habit for many years and never regretted it.

Also, know the level of discomfort the group will tolerate. This will help you avoid pushing them too hard and destroying morale on day one. This is a mistake I have made-once. I won't repeat it because it can get ugly fast! Even if you have only been to the Boundary Waters a couple of times your ability will far exceed most newbies. Make them ask you to do more- not beg you to do less. Thank You for introducing new people to the area we love! Well done.

I think you will get lots of good advice here and I agree that preparing them ahead is a good idea. They need to be aware of what they are in for, especially the physical aspect of the trip (paddling and portaging), along with the rewards of accomplishment and incredible beauty. They also should be ready to deal with the elements(weather) that can make or break some trips; if the elements don't cooperate they can still have a good time if they have the right equipment and mindset.

If they don't have at least a minimal competence with canoeing, especially the stern person, they will get frustrated fast as they zig zag down the lake (or worse).

Finally I would set a hard and fast rule from the start that everyone wears their PFD while on the water... no exceptions.

I haven't done a trip with only HS students but did do a trip with 6 nephews who ranged from 12 to 22 or so. I've also taken other newbies. My advice is to plan for a first day that might not get too far. Getting organized on portages and even keeping the canoes going straight can take a bit. And the more practice you can get in beforehand the better. Even if you can't get everyone practicing paddling if you can get a few of them ready to paddle stern that will help.

Sounds like you have some experience and some good ideas, so I may not be able to help, but I'll throw a list of thoughts out...

1. I'd go mid July or later. Weather is more stable. Rain tends to happen more after dark. Bugs typically thin out a little. Water is warmer for swimming.

2. If you have any athletes, check to see when their softball/baseball playoffs are, and avoid those dates. You'll be less likely to have a last minute dropout.

3. If any of them plan on fishing, I'd go barbless, or crimp the barbs. You could probably limit the gear to floating rapalas and slip bobbers with leeches, and have plenty of success.

4. I would want to personally inspect whatever footwear they plan on bringing, and do it a week ahead of time so they have time to get something else. You don't want to be at the entry point and someone is in flip flops.

5. A guy I know just took his kids for the first time to the bdub, and left them on their own to pack "their" stuff. One of them forgot a sleeping bag. That's tough on a week-long trip. I'd want to go over each persons bags prior to leaving town. You could have them drop their gear off at your house a day or two early, for inspection.

6. Regular food will stay cold in a chest cooler for 4 days no problem. I know most of you portage folks are going "ugh". But if you are limiting yourself to short portages, it wouldn't be a big deal. Then you could eat eggs, pancakes, bacon, sausage, steaks, brats etc. kids seem extra hungry up there. Lots of good food will help keep them in a good mood.

7. No cliff jumping. I'm not so afraid of the jump for them, as I am climbing up the cliff with wet feet. It's a recipe for a nasty fall.

8. If they are not experienced canoeists, and swimmers, I'd avoid areas with heavy current.

9. I'd consider leaving the hatchet at home. The vast majority of severe injuries in the bdub are from a hatchet. You can get by with out it.

10. bring several ways to start a fire with you, and let them all have a turn at it. It keeps them entertained, and gives them a good education. If you're real adventurous, you could see if they can start one from scratch. It's fun to watch them fail anyway.

11. Do a search on here for games. There are lots of games you can play with dice, and it doesn't take up much space.

12. I'd take a look at savage voyageurs camp chair. It's made from available wood, you would just need to bring the seat material. If you're in the twin cities, I have some extras made up. That'll keep them busy for a while too.

13. Don't skimp on bug spray.

14. Plenty of toilet paper, and you be in charge, so it doesn't get left behind.

15. I'd consider staying in a bunkhouse the night before. It makes it a little less hectic the day before, giving you a little buffer before you enter the wilderness. It also gives you one more chance to make sure you have everything before you enter.

16. I'd make sure each canoe has a map. And that everyone gets involved in navigating. It's a great life skill.

17. One of the adults should always be the last one across the portage. Double check for left bags/gear.

18. Make sure they have comfortable life jackets THAT FIT.

19. If you have girls coming along, you might want to include "feminine products" on their list of items to bring. They won't necessarily think about it.

20. It's no fun portaging 95lb canoes. I'd make sure they are no more than 65, 40-something even better.

Check the camping recipe section on this board for meal ideas if you need some.

Sounds like you're on the right track. I am glad to see folks getting kids involved in the boundary waters. Good luck on your trip.

quote josterchild: "My biggest concern is food. "

Food....I could write a novel on food in the BWCA and menus! You are so right, it's a big part of teenagers' lives, but no problem. It's fairly easy to have an awesome menu that is pretty cheap, not super heavy, no refrigeration needed. The grocery store is your biggest ally in this, there is just so much dried food and shelf stable food.

For example....dinner could be Alessi Tuscan White Bean soup with cornbread, and S'mores for dessert. Or tortellini in Knorr pesto cream sauce with a bunch of pouched chicken, and blueberry openface pie for dessert.

Make dessert....those kids will be burning up loads of calories, and nothing hollers "you are living the good life" to teenagers than chilling by the fire with a chunk of freshly baked brownie or pie! It's pretty easy to do...I prefer the Jello Mold Oven, but some people like reflector ovens more.

Want more ideas? Just ask, either here or email me. I could send you copies of menu plans for groups that size for 4-6 days, I've got 'em.

#1 Thing everyone wears their life jacket whenever in the canoe. It's really not a bad idea to wear them swimming too. You can rig them where you put your legs in the arm holes and it almost makes a seat to float in. The water can be cold even in summer.

Everyone is providing great points to think about! I really appreciate all the ideas. I agree with what everyone has said. The number one rule, which has already been communicated in a letter to parents regarding the upcoming trip is that PFD's will be worn 100% of the time while on the water. NO EXCEPTIONS. As far as the gear goes, I will have complete control over that.

To provide a little background . . . I am a special education teacher and last spring, the school social worker and I created a new program we call TRAVERSE (Teaching Respect Attitude Versatility Empathy Responsibility Success Ethics). The purpose is to work with at-risk teens working on developing a variety of skills, in which they are deficient in for a variety of reasons. We were fortunate enough to receive a rather large grant last summer.

The students have already had a variety of experiences ranging from college visits, fine dining, volunteer and service work. A trip to the Bdub provides a whole bunch of skills they can transfer to a variety of areas within their lives:)

For the purpose of sustainability (as this trip is something I plan on doing every year) of the program, camping gear will be purchased for the entire group. So, the good news is that I know they will have proper sleep systems and shelter.

Clothing will certainly be something I go over with them way in advance to the trip. We do plan on heading in the last week of July and being able to swim is the main reason for that.

I have already made the decision that we will be renting lightweight canoes. Looking back on a few of my first trips, all I seem to remember is fighting the canoe on portages!

I agree 100% regarding the hatchet. I don't even bring one myself on my own trips. A collapsable saw and some controlled batonning is all that is needed.

I was fortunate enough to do some camping with this group last summer in the Duluth area, so they have been introduced to some elements.

I also own a PN60 with spot, which I know will create peace of mind for the parents.

Fishing will be kept simple. Fortunately, I have enough gear for a group twice the size that is going:)

Cliff jumping will NOT be happening.

In terms of EP, I am kicking around the idea of the NE area. Personally this is an area I have not canoed in. I know Johnson Falls are in that area. Just peeking at the map, it seems there are some smaller bodies of water in that area with some possible day trip options.

quote dogwoodgirl: "

quote josterchild: "My biggest concern is food. "

Food....I could write a novel on food in the BWCA and menus! You are so right, it's a big part of teenagers' lives, but no problem. It's fairly easy to have an awesome menu that is pretty cheap, not super heavy, no refrigeration needed. The grocery store is your biggest ally in this, there is just so much dried food and shelf stable food.

For example....dinner could be Alessi Tuscan White Bean soup with cornbread, and S'mores for dessert. Or tortellini in Knorr pesto cream sauce with a bunch of pouched chicken, and blueberry openface pie for dessert.

Make dessert....those kids will be burning up loads of calories, and nothing hollers "you are living the good life" to teenagers than chilling by the fire with a chunk of freshly baked brownie or pie! It's pretty easy to do...I prefer the Jello Mold Oven, but some people like reflector ovens more.

Want more ideas? Just ask, either here or email me. I could send you copies of menu plans for groups that size for 4-6 days, I've got 'em. "

mmmm, I want to camping with you!!!

Let the kids plan the menu and shop for food. Maybe steer them here or just search on internet. Let them pick route but keep in mind you don't have to stick to it. Let them lead in canoes. Have a training session on tent set up before you go and leave them on their own. The more they do on their own the more they'll remember the trip.

I've done a bunch of trips with junior and senior high kids. You're getting good advice and your own planning is excellent. I'd make sure each kid has a rain suit, and also sandals or something better than flipflops to wear while swimming...a cut foot gets infected easily and you have lost a portager. (Ban flipflops from the trip!) Most of the kids just brought two pair of tennis shoes, one to get wet and one to wear in camp. They don't need beach towels, three pairs of socks are plenty, underwear can be washed out. Don't let their mothers pack their clothes, they'll each need a Duluth pack!

Tell the kids they will not eat like they are at home, but it'll be good and plenty of it. If the box says feeds 4, figure about 2 for teenagers. I bought most of our food from Cub and Aldi's, but I did order two types of freeze dried vegetables on line, # 10 cans, and repack into ziplock. Corn is the best. Nonrefrigerated sausage is great for packing, good in mac and cheese, and great on crackers with cheese. Chicken in tinfoil pouches, instant mashed potatoes with gravy envelopes, stovetop stuffing, and FD corn is a great dinner.

We had each kid bring a daypack (school bookbag) and put their "during the day" stuff plus raingear in it, and have their name on it. Canoe portagers took the daypack and the canoe, pack carriers slung the daypack on their shoulder after the big pack was up.

Have the kids practice portaging loaded packs and the canoes, as well as setting up camp. If you have the cash, get a 12' x 16' tarp from Campmor...about $75.00, but it will cover your whole kitchen area and allow everybody to get under and stay dry.

If you can have an adult in each tent with the kids, you'll probably cut down on problems.

If you want to, email me directly. I love this stuff, and it made great memories for me and a lot of kids.

quote analyzer: mmmm, I want to camping with you!!!"

It's a common problem!

This is how I started going to the boundary waters, I took groups of mainly teenage delinquent and special education kids, I was in social work for over 20 years. For the most part we had very few problems we had to restrain a couple of kids a few times but generally they were pretty good, always took leeches and bobbers so they would catch fish and usually went when the weather was fairly warm so they could swim, usually went to ensign, basswood, knife areas pretty easy trips when we went to basswood we would go through moose to avoid big water. I would suggest a basecamp. it's a lot of work setting everything up.

You might want to check for allergies. It sucks to put the food together, and then someone last minute says "I'm allergic to gluten". It's not impossible to pack gluten free, but it's way better to know in advance.

My sixth grade teacher took eight of us boys on my first Boundary Waters trip as a reward for making honor roll (this was before Title IX ... the girls got no reward). It was a trip I'll never forget.

A lot of very good advice above. Here is one more suggestion.

Before your trip, make sure all of the boys are proficient in open water canoe recovery techniques. Reason? Your group is highly likely to get spread out on the lakes. Each canoe should be self sufficient.

The "canoe-over-canoe" assisted recovery is one approach. The "Capistrano flip" self rescue is another. Both are demonstrated in this video: Open water canoe recovery techniques

Good luck! You will be making some great memories for your boys. Let us know how it goes.

I've done many trips with inner city high school students. When I see these students(now grown) the first thing they ask me is if I'm still taking students to the BWCA. It's a trip they will never forget.

My advice would be to supply an essential and non-essential gear list to the students. Rain gear being the most important item. Remind students that whatever they bring, they have to carry. I found that students want to bring knives but I discouraged it because it becomes a toy in the woods.

Wherever you go I would plan on traveling every day, even if you're planning a layover day. A long day trip keeps them busy and seeing new things.

Impress upon the students that working together as a team is essential. My trips were always outfitted and so sleeping bags and and other gear wasn't a concern. Bring a saw and not a hatchet, not so much for safety as not wanting the students to destroy the blade.

Remind students that there are no grocery stores nearby to replenish food and drink mixes. Which is one reason that you or the other adult be in charge of the food packs. The snack items that are supposed to last 4-5 end up being gone after 2 days. also, Keep track of toilet paper. I used to carry one roll in my bag for back up.

And finally, divvy up camp chores among the group. Have a great trip!

quote OBX2Kayak: "My sixth grade teacher took eight of us boys on my first Boundary Waters trip as a reward for making honor roll (this was before Title IX ... the girls got no reward). It was a trip I'll never forget."

It wasn't the BW, but one of my junior high science teachers took several of us boys on a few days of backpacking through mountains in the Adirondacks. I forget how we were selected. My parents were great day hikers but it was that trip that got me started on camping.

This was after a few day field trip for all of the students taking biology at a field station in the Adirondacks. Part of that trip was a day of canoeing around different ecosystems and taking water samples. That was another part of my learning to love canoes (already had part of that in Boy Scout camp).

I hope they still have those trips going and that both parts are now available to the girls.

Regardless, any time you take some kids into the wilderness you are doing a great thing.

There's tons of great advice in this thread.

A couple of things to add and I'll echo Egnuti: assign cooking and cleaning groups, with maybe one adult in each group. Boys especially are not used to cooking and don't know you have to stir things, or they forget and talk. Ban the other boys from the kitchen. I had cooking groups made up of one kid from each tent, so there were others who could take the tent down and pack while the cleaners did the dishes.

Keep them busy...it's in camp freetime when their bad habits come out. Either travel every day, or on a layover day, do a daytrip that takes 5 hours and carry lunch along. You might even split the group, with explorers going their way and fishermen doing their thing.

And the no knife idea is good...the leaders will have a fillet knife and small knife to open food stuff, and they can use a fingernail clipper for their fishing needs. Unless you have steak the first night, they won't need a knife, and the fillet knife can be shared for steaks.

If this trip goes well, see if the following summer you can stretch it to 4 nights or even 5. Your three day trip will be about over just as they get the hang of things.

I suggest doing one or two "shakedown" campouts/canoe trips. Take a little car camping trip so they can get used to setting up tents, cooking, paddling and steering a canoe, etc. These shakedown trips help get all of the bugs out before the actual trip.

As to food take some fresh type foods that you can eat the first couple of days and save the dehydrated for later in the trip. That way they aren't eating dehydrated the entire trip. There are lots of things in the grocery stores that are shelf stable. My wife just found some shelf stable precooked bacon at the store yesterday. Plan some kind of dessert like someone suggested. Think of snack foods too.

Lots of advice and opinions here. I'll only give my 2 cents on two things:

1) PFDs should be used not only while paddling, but also if swimming wading or if any part of you is going to touch the water. Even if they are the champion swimmer on the swim team. Finding a body under murky water is very difficult and drowning is likely the biggest risk you cannot leave at home but can significantly mitigate.

2) You probably already know this as an educator, but adults should never sleep in tents with minors. More to protect you than anything else against any allegations of impropriety.

This will certainly be a great life-time event for these kids and it sounds like a program that more of our schools need.

Here are a few ideas: NEVER go barefoot. Get some cheap water shoes for swimming.
I have camped with teens before, and I camped when I was a teen. When I was younger THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH FOOD! The teens I brought later told me THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH FOOD! One simple solution is instant mashed potatoes, and a lot of them. Some of the food that made me a hero to teens: Hungry Jack hasbrowns, chicken quesadillas made with real onions and chicken from a pouch, pizza, and just-add-water brownie mix cooked in scooped out orange halves tin-foiled together. I honestly think the best thing you can do is load up on fun, light food.(Pringles, any one?) For a kid, that is a huge deal. That's why folks go to nice restaurants when they are trying to make a good impression. Check out the recipes section.

Also, as a teacher, I'll tell you there is a lot of power in choice. Give the kids choices even if they are artificial (Do you want to climb down off the jagged rock or should I lift you down?) Have meetings about where to eat lunch and that sort of thing. Have fun!

I agree with the food thing, lundy.

They'll eat twice as much up there, twice as often.

Instant blueberry pancake mix, just add water.
Instant mashed potatoes. Cub has some varieties in the dollar section that I eat, even at home.
Stuffing
Spaghetti
Hashbrowns
Mac n cheese. (you don't have to use milk. Just butter will work)

There's all kinds of filling, decent tasting food, that will keep just fine.

I always do steaks the first night. Even if you're not going to bring a cooler, you can freeze the steaks and roll them up in the sleeping bags, and they'll keep until that night.

Sometimes I forget you ARE experienced. Sorry if I'm rehashing a bunch of stuff you already know.

If any of your teens are boys, forget packing light on food (and why go light--you will have plenty of extra portaging help). Teenagers eat like there is no tomorrow in the BWCA. In addition to figuring on big meals, be sure to bring lots of snacks (nuts, candy, beef jerky) and something like Crystal Lite for the water (my kids can't get enough of Crystal Lite in the BWCA). The most complained-about BWCA topics are 1) weather, 2)food and 3)fishing. At least you can control one of them.

#1) "The difference between Adventure and Ordeal is Attitude." Let them know that it is going to be tough. Challenge them to take it in stride and respond to adversity.

#2) Leave the watches at home. Kids will ask you over and over what time it is. They are conditioned through school to need to know what time it is. Who cares. You sleep when you are tired, eat when you are hungry, etc. The only thing you may need time for is your pick up day. For that, you as the leader may want to pack one and hide it away.

#3) Allowing them to plan the trip will be a big benefit to you. Use your knowledge to guide them. Even if you have are route you want to do, let it be their decision to select it (you can pretty much manipulate this to your advantage :) ). Anyways, the reason for this is A) they feel more involved in the trip and it builds anticipation (See #1) B) When they are wondering why you are paddling 10 or 15 miles today and/or have a 100 plus rod portage, you can say that is the route that they chose...

#4) Get them involved in everything. I have seen where adult leaders cook for everyone, clean up after everyone, etc. Have them cook and clean up. We did this when I was a leader at a high adventure camp with the Scouts. I know its scary (I have eaten tuna fish mashed potatoes...) but it is another way to get them involved in the trip. It also keeps them from having too much free time which usually leads to trouble...

Most of the other stuff has been covered...

quote Thump: "#1) "The difference between Adventure and Ordeal is Attitude." Let them know that it is going to be tough. Challenge them to take it in stride and respond to adversity. "

Love it.

That's a good lesson for life.

quote Thump:#4) Get them involved in everything. I have seen where adult leaders cook for everyone, clean up after everyone, etc. Have them cook and clean up. We did this when I was a leader at a high adventure camp with the Scouts. I know its scary (I have eaten tuna fish mashed potatoes...) but it is another way to get them involved in the trip. It also keeps them from having too much free time which usually leads to trouble... "

In the canoe camp that I went to we had rotating groups: Set-up and breakdown, wood and dishes, cooking. One group for each campsite. Everyone gets to do everything, and yes, keeps the kids busy which is good!

quote analyzer: "

quote Thump: "#1) "The difference between Adventure and Ordeal is Attitude." Let them know that it is going to be tough. Challenge them to take it in stride and respond to adversity. "

Love it. That's a good lesson for life. "

I worked at a high adventure boy scout camp during college for three summers. Most of the kids were 14 or 15 years old. I challenged each of my groups with this each week. I had one group of Sally's my second summer that complained about everything, the sun was too sunny, the bugs were too buggy, the sand was too sandy, it was too hot, the food sucked, etc.

So on the second day, we paddled through the mangrove maze (Mangrove swamp) in Kayaks like we did with every group. Except this time it was close to low tide. So about half way through, we are in about an inch of water and 2 and a half foot thick muck. We got out and had to drag the kayaks through it back to the bay. Think 150 or 200 yard portage with mud up to your waist. It was really miserable and they complained the whole time. At the end, we celebrated by having a huge mud fight. After that experience, everything else the rest of the week was down hill. The kids quit complaining and even the 40 yr old adults quit complaining.

At the end of the week we did a thing called roses and thorns. Out of the 6 kids, I think about 3 or 4 of them said that experience was their rose. They had a sense of accomplishment from rising up and punching adversity in the face. This is a week where we caught sharks, tons of fish, went snorkeling, etc. and their favorite part was wading through muck?!?!? (Weird kids ;) ) But during that roses and thorns session I had one of the kids say he didn't have any thorns, that was his rose, and then proceeded to recite that quote which I was saying the whole two hours or so that we were struggling through the swamp. Having that happen is pretty awesome. Watching a group of kids grow into young men in a week is better than any high you will ever feel.

The point of this story wasn't to toot my horn. It was to say that kids are tougher than you give them credit for. They will rise to the challenge. At the beginning of the week I thought it was going to be one of my worst groups ever. I was again reminded that mother nature has a way of making men out of boys. That group ended up making one of the biggest changes of my three summers. They were one of my best groups despite what I first thought. The outdoors are what so many kids are missing out on now. Thanks for sharing mother nature with the next generation!