We have a large group going this year (at least 8) and I am having trouble making the dates of the trip work for everyone. So I am thinking about doing 2 permits a couple of days apart and going in in 2 groups. The problem is only one or two guys will have to leave before the rest of us, I would gladly paddle him/them out and return to the group solo, but would I need a new permit since I am leaving the BW and re-entering? Also it would be a long haul, SAK to Moose lake EP and back.

One thing comes to mind straight away.
One group per camp site. (EDIT: butthead has corrected this false information below.)
There are other "issues" but lets just get this party started first....lol
As far as the second permit to re-enter, if you don't go to the parking lot and you should be "OK."
Disclaimer: I am not a USFS Employee and these are just MY opinion.

Right..one group per camp..that would be another problem once I get back to the group..we would be on 2 permits but under 9 people. We would do 2 campsites for the first part of the trip. But after that it kinda seems pointless as we would just be taking up a site someone else could use.

I believe that you can get copies of your permit to allow your group to separate for the day (copies do not allow camping, just the right of that canoe/canoes to paddle around separate from the permit holder).

I think you're fine. A permit for each group when entering on the different dates.
As far as paddling the couple folks out early, like others have said, as long as you don't leave the canoe and enter the parking lot...but really the BW line is somewhere else up on Moose. At this point it seems like splitting hairs.
If there was a Ranger there that told me I needed a permit to re-enter. I'd just show him my stub and explain the situation. if that doesn't work, you can always fill out a day use permit at the ep to give you use until the sun goes down...at what point you'd be back at camp and back on the other permit.
All of this is really splitting hairs IMO, I think your plan would be just fine.

2 groups 2 permits, 1 camp no problem as long as within 9 person 4 canoes rule. Asked about, and done that, many times.
If you land at an EP technically you have left the BWCA and need to get another permit.

butthead

Every canoe has a permit with them at all times when traveling. If you are the trip leader you will have a large permit. If you are in another canoe in the group you will have a smaller permit they tear off the big permit. So just let them leave on there own because they will have their own permit.

Technically if you bring your buddy back to the entry point you would have to get another permit, but not only that..."Permit stubs become invalid when the group leader exits the wilderness." So, everyone you left behind that is part of your group would now be considered to be in violation even though you left them with the stub.

Larger groups always sound like a grand idea (no pun intended), but the logistics almost always make them less than ideal. If I was you I'd trip with people that can commit to the dates or change the dates so they work for everyone if at all possible. When you try to get clever and flirt with the rules that is when you get in trouble...and that can ruin everybody's trip.

quote butthead: "2 groups 2 permits, 1 camp no problem as long as within 9 person 4 canoes rule. Asked about, and done that, many times.
If you land at an EP technically you have left the BWCA and need to get another permit.


butthead"

Butthead is correct. My wife and I meet my Aunt and Uncle on some lake every year since they have more time to spend in the wilderness.

We've pulled two separate permits for same entry point a day or two apart so other members that couldn't burn as much vacation time could join us. We all exited BWCA at the same time and camped together on same site (once with 4 people, once with 6) with 2 separate permits and never had a problem.

So if you stay in the canoe, don't touch the shoreline. You haven't exited. They can get out in the water and wade a little.

quote GSP: "So if you stay in the canoe, don't touch the shoreline. You haven't exited. They can get out in the water and wade a little.
"

I was thinking more of a paddle by, just to be safe. " sorry buddy..your gonna have to tuck and roll". :)

I would just get two permits. Hell, we had three among our group last year. It was like a personnel blender on Malberg.

quote butthead: "2 groups 2 permits, 1 camp no problem as long as within 9 person 4 canoes rule. Asked about, and done that, many times.
If you land at an EP technically you have left the BWCA and need to get another permit.


butthead"

Man I hate it when I post WRONG information...sorry for misleading everyone...butthead is spot on with his information, as always;-)

quote 2old4U: "Technically if you bring your buddy back to the entry point you would have to get another permit, but not only that..."Permit stubs become invalid when the group leader exits the wilderness." So, everyone you left behind that is part of your group would now be considered to be in violation even though you left them with the stub. "

is this stated on the permit?

Seems like a lot of permits being burn up. That bwca sigh on moose is a long way from landing... always thought 9 people in a group was a lot. But hey that's just me

I can see getting multiple permits if you have members of the group starting and or finishing on different days, such as in this scenario of the OP..

However, I could see this being abused to limit the number of groups entering an EP. For instance a group of 8 people (4 canoes), all entering at the same EP, date and time, all planning on camping together and they get 4 permits (2 on each permit).

In effect they just prevented 3 other groups from using that EP that day. Yes, it would cost and extra $18 ($6 permit fee for the 3 extra/unnecessary permits) but I could see some doing that.

Are they geographically challenged that they can't paddle themselves out?

Paddling a tandem or three-man canoe all the way back is going to be a chore if the wind is up.

quote Mocha: "

quote 2old4U: "Technically if you bring your buddy back to the entry point you would have to get another permit, but not only that..."Permit stubs become invalid when the group leader exits the wilderness." So, everyone you left behind that is part of your group would now be considered to be in violation even though you left them with the stub. "

is this stated on the permit?"

There ya go.

butthead

I used to live at 347 Meadowlark.