Do any of you have the Granite Gear Duluth packs? If so do you like them or is there something else you would recommend. If you do could you post a link because its hard to justify paying that price for a sack of cloth

ill recommend kondos. sewn in ely, not asia. i just got the outfitter expedition (for bags, pads, and clothes) and am very impressed with the quality and overall design. some sale prices going on now also. kondos. Jan

the Granite gear packs were nice ....when they were still made here...I don't care for the material they use now. Doesn't seem as durable.

kondos, cookes, ostroms-all are packs made by paddlers for paddlers. forget the china granite gear-that name in packs doesn't mean what it used to.

the kondos packs on sale are a very good value, if not the best value. you can use the search button for many opinions-there's been slightly less than one million posts on pack selection in 2007.

I can say nothing but good things about CCS packs. I started using a CCS Guide pack and food pack this summer and WOW, what a difference. The shoulder straps and hip belt are well designed, the material is top notch and there is something nice about a product made in Minnesota. If you have ever met Dan, you know he can't make a bad product. I am happy with what CCS produces!

TB

I have used GG packs with high school groups for 4 years now. They have handled all the abuse that kids that age can dish out. Sorry, I didn't know when I bought them that they had moved production to China. But, I will probably buy more this year, they gave me a much larger discount than anybody else. On a school budget, that is important.

if you're spending public money, why not buy "made in usa" instead of china?

That should be a law. Tax dollars should stay here.

Amen on the HOME issue. Kondos has a nice selection. Couple on sale at around 25% off last I saw. If you DO go GG,I like the Superior One. Nimbus is nice, but pricey for me. Kondos Outdoors had a couple nice ones for under $150. GG Sup One is around 140 as well if you look around. I used the Kondos Outfitter pack a couple weeks ago in Shenendoah, fully loaded and it was very comfortable! Superior One is too, but a bit larger, and if you stuff it FULL, you know it at 7400 cu. in.

One would think that spending LESS of the public dollar would be more important. Schools are on very tight budgets and I would like to see this program continue. I would love to buy Kondo's and CCS, but the prices are too high. I asked about discounts, but their prices are still too high. I did buy some food bags from CCS and a harness from Ostrums. GG gives me their packs at wholesale. Maybe I should have a bakesale? Last year we took 34 kids to the BW.

Solution - buy used Kondos packs from outfitters. Frequently 1/2 to 1/3 of the price of new... always clean and mended if needed.

There - you bought American, got Kondos quality and let the outfitter buy new Kondos packs..... keeping them busy in their small shop in the woods.

All the outfitters sell used, I've bought from VNO and CBO and been quite satisified. And BTW - only the actual Duluth Pack company makes Duluth Packs - everyone else makes canoe packs or portage packs.

So, I should by used packs for the price I can get new GG packs? Just so I can say I bought US products? I would have trouble explaining that to our business manager. What kind of car do you drive? I drive Fords. What kind of tents do you use? Try to find reasonably priced US tents. Anybody shop Wal-Mart? Please hold yourself to the guidelines you would have public institutions follow.

Intresting twist to this topic I must say. I am Contracting Officer for the Air Force. And we are required by law to buy made in America and buy smaller business.

Eagle93 - I bought a used #4 sized Kondos pack from VNO for $40. I assume before you fired off your volley you did due diligence and researched this. A quick check on the GG website shows their #4 pack at $130. A NEW Kondos #4 pack sells for $99.95.
A NEW Cooke Custom #4 Sewing sells for $115.
I'm lost here - how did you research this? This exercise took me about 60 seconds.

BTW the quality of the Kondos or for that matter CCS or Duluth Packs is excellent. I was able to portage a new GG pack last summer and liked that one as well, so quality would all seem to be good and acceptable.

A used Kondos #4 in action.

Usual disclaimers etc. And no, I absolutely refuse to shop at Walmart.

I think that's great. I wish more would buy US made products as hard as it is these days. It's practically impossible to buy everything you need by buying strictly US made. Pretty sad actually.

Sorry if my "volley" offended anyone, but as a public school employee of 36 years, I have become a little thin-skinned when it comes to school budgets. Yes, I have researched and called companies to get the best prices. I do this every year. I ask vendors at copia for school discounts. One US company I did business with was Superior Quetico(?) based in the Twin Cities. They, however, are no longer (to my knowledge) making packs. As I mentioned before, GG gives me a substantial discount. I do buy used sleeping bags, pads, and other equipment from outfitters. But why buy used when new is almost the same price? With the discount, I am able to buy higher-end packs that are easier to carry. Over half of the students that participate are female and standard packs are difficult for them to carry.

now i regret i added that "not asia" after the "sewn in ely".

well eagle, time to put the numbers on the table-apples to apples-your wholesale priced china granite gear pack sewn at .25/hour versus the on sale made in usa (minnesota) pack. i'd like to see the big bucks you're saving the school district.

Amen to MrBarley. Many Wallyworlds have been built on the by-passes of many small towns and interstates rendering the old downtown section hardware,variety,family owned stores to rough times. Our society (or us as a whole) have let it happen to save a buck and save an extra stop. Many from necessity. It's hard to research who makes it in US and who only assembles components, or warehouses it and labels it. I think we were much better off when we were TRULY an Independant nation. But who will stop the ball. Total boycott is the answer but it won't happen. The first stone? I can't throw it until I take careful inventory of ALL posessions and cook down some corn for methanol to run my internal combustion motors. Oh, back to packs.....where was I? Research,Research,...... oth

heck, ill stir the pot.

who here buys or rents a souris river canoe instead of a wenonah, bell, etc...?

hahaha

I buy the best value for the money or to meet special needs. To buy out of loyalty to a particular company, or out of patriotism, sends the wrong message to the marketplace. The marketplace attempts to respond to what customers want to buy. If you buy a lesser value, that is what you will get in the future.
Many people recognize that the buying of Japanese-made cars by Americans forced GM, Ford, and Chrysler to improve their products. That's the way markets work.
For me, some of the best values are made in the good'ol US (my Mac computer), some in Germany (my VW diesels), and some, heaven forbid, China.
Buy for the quality, special needs, or the price that is best for you alone.

jeriatric nails it. its a global economy and theres no turning back. value for your money employs alot of people. when Japan or Germany ships vehicles here they are not accompanied by Japanese or German workers to sell or service them. an aside, wouldnt it be great to find out that chinese handcuffs were manufactured in mexico? (trying to add a little levity here) Jan

I haven't bought packs for 4 years, so my info isn't current. At the time I bought, each pack was $70 cheaper than the comparable pack from Kondos and CCS. I even inquired about "seconds" from Kondos and they were still more. This was an apples to apples comparison. Included were any discount offered. When it comes time to order for this summer's trips, I will post any info regarding prices.

Kanoes,

I personally own 3 We-no-nahs and the canoes we use for school are also that brand. Why We-no-nah? Beside being great canoes, Mike gave us a 45% discount. Our school district is 20 miles from the factory. Mike supports scouting and school groups. We bought 4 Rx Sundowners for $2400. They have made 8 years and 29 trips to the BW. I have inquired about Bell since they are now manufactured locally, no deal.

i only brought that question up (SR v Wenonah, etc.) to bring it a little closer to home. hell, my car is 100% Japanese. bought for quality and value. the "not asia" was thrown in because of the assumed demise of GG quality now. i wish i would have phrased that differently...

Jan

sotaman,

First, thanks for serving your country during difficult time. My older son is currently doing his 3rd deployment.

Buy whatever pack you like. All of them mentioned are good quality. All have some features others may not have. People tend to think what they have is the best, that's only natural. CCS and Kondos are quality products. We have a Kondos tarp that withstood 50+ mph winds. Still perfect. The lighter weight fabric used in GG packs is supposed to be more abrasion resistant.

Eagle - I apologize for making any assumptions about prices and discounts offered to schools. You have fixed budgets and demands that certainly exceed whatever you are allocated.

I'm sure this board, and I personally would be honored to help in any meaningful way when you need equipment for the kids. The main thing is to get them up there to experience the BWCA.

Please contact me off board.
Dan Cooke
Cooke Custom Sewing

Eagle

Thank you for the comments this is a very interesting debate and just by the nature of my job something I deal with on a frequent basis. Is it right that we tax payers pay more for something "made at home" then the savings. Sure is to some extent. But there are a lot of times this get used and abused and wonder how some of this gets written in to law.

There are a lot of times we will set aside certain buys and projects for small disadvantaged business. And we will expect to pay quite a bit more in the long run also in ND everything is a small business per the standards, they just about are.

Anyway this is a very interesting subject that I have enjoyed and commend you all for keeping it civil. Trust me being here in Iraq and to buy and find the best value for you the tax payer is my job and something very trickie to do and explain to the user we are buying these supplies for.

We have 2 #4s and like them quite a bit. After going from the the regular canvas and leather Dultuth pack with a rope for a waist strap to these, it was like heaven :p

I bought both of ours at the U of M's gear sale. Every fall, the Outdoor Events/Rec Sports division sells off all thier lightly used gear for a fraction of the cost. I paid about $65 for my first GG #4 two years ago, and liked it so much I went back last year and got a second.

At that price, it's hard to beat.

Beemer,

Thanks for the offer. At present, we are doing pretty good on gear. We have been careful how we spent.

You are right about just getting the kids up there. We provide kids this opportunity for $75.00/week. When out superidendent approved this course, he wanted everyone to be able to afford it. Our local teachers association also gives "scholarships" to any in real need. It is truly a joy to watch kids grow and develop in the BW. Some kids come back every year they can.

How does one find out when the U of MN has their fall sale?

Jeriatric wrote -"To buy out of loyalty to a particular company, or out of patriotism, sends the wrong message to the marketplace. The marketplace attempts to respond to what customers want to buy. If you buy a lesser value, that is what you will get in the future.
.....the buying of Japanese-made cars by Americans forced GM, Ford, and Chrysler to improve their products. .....Buy for the quality, special needs, or the price that is best for you alone. "

It's pretty much impossible to avoid "Made in China" products, and I agree you should buy what suits your needs - if it's best price or nothing, then sometimes you have to buy a China product.
I avoid "Made in China" products when I can (no, not always) - even if it means paying a little more. Not so much out of loyalty or patriotism, but because of revulsion at a government that treats its citizens and workers as less than human. I weigh the fact that the Chinese government is benefiting when I buy a product made by people toiling, like slaves, against the "great value" of the item. I think people at Kondos or CCS are allowed more than one bathroom break per 15 hour shift.
That being said, sometimes you can't really avoid it, and just hope that the particular company sometimes drops in to verify (or try to ensure) that the manufacturing conditions aren't too brutal.

Well put Howard - too many times there is no practical choice. Tents, sleeping bags and too often clothing come to mind.

However I just bought my wife a wonderful winter coat from Wintergreen, made in Ely - and I have to say that their prices are not that much higher than a similar coat from Northface - so occasionally there are competitive alternatives. I'm happy to put a bit back into the Ely economy.

How does one find out when the U of MN has their fall sale?

I'm on the Rec Sports?Center For Outdoor Adventure mailing list, which keeps me updated with e-mails. You can do that, or just check the Rec SPorts Web page frequently.

Their home page is: http://www.recsports.umn.edu/coa/index.html, and you can sign up there for the e-mail list. They have pretty decent trips, as well, if you're in the Cities.

Their winter gear sale started today, actually.

Here's the text of the e-mail:

Just a reminder the Gear Sale begins today! Doors open at Noon. Over 1,200 items this year... stop by a check it out. Sale is in the University Rec Center - COA Office - 1906 University Ave SE. It is a fun event!


Here is a list of some of the items:



Rossignol Touring XC Skis (waxless/fish-scales) (skis and bindings only)

168cm (85-125 lb person) $50

178cm (125-150 lb person) $75



Downhill Skis and Snowboards $10-$100



Sierra Designs Summer Sleeping Bags $30

regular (up to 6 feet)

long (up to 6'6')



Backpacks - New & Used $20-$150



Misc Climbing Gear - crash pads, shoes, ice tools, crampons $30-$250



Crescent Moon Snowshoes $80-$100

Small (85-170lb person)

Regular (170-250lb person)



BRAND NEW Gear:



Marmot Fall-Winter-Spring Clothing $10-$200

Rain Jackets, Fleece, Winter Jackets, Hats, Gloves, Pants

Many women's and men's size mediums!



Outdoor Research - Fleece, Winter Jackets, Hats, Gloves, Pants $10-$100



Winter Hats $10

Winter Gloves $10-$80



Swix jackets, hats, gloves $10-$75

Ahnu Shoes $45-$60



Annual Winter Gear Sale – Center for Outdoor Adventure Office

Sale Begins December 5-6 (Wednesday – Thursday, noon-7pm)

University Recreational Center – lower level

(612) 625-8790

Are you looking to sell or purchase outdoor winter equipment? COA will be selling some of its winter rental equipment as well as hosting this fun event for others to sell and purchase equipment. Stop by and check out the great deals to be had. There will x-c skis, snowshoes, downhill skis, snowboards, boots, poles, ice climbing equipment, winter camping, and mountaineering equipment. Sale is from Noon-7pm on these days. Come early, the good stuff goes fast. If you are selling equipment, there will be an 8% process and handling fee, at the time of drop off. Items are limited to x-c skis, snowboards, downhill skis, boots, poles, snowshoes, goggles, ice axes, crampons, ice climbing boots, sleeping bags, sleeping pads, backpacks, 3+ season tents, stoves, headlamps, down or fleece jackets, waterproof breathable jackets, and wind or insulating pants.

im just concerned that China will start throwing some of that left over lead they have into GG packs. 7400 cubic inches, 35 pounds empty.

:)

Oh, me lumbegoo!!

Good one, kanoes!

I bought a GG Nimbus 3 years ago. I don't know when they started to farm out to China but the one I got is awsome. If Ely makes one that is comparable and I would have seen it before I bought the GG, I would have bought it just on the merit of Ely.