I realize the "dark side" connotations that many associate with using one of these type of paddles & hope this thread doesn't devolve into a debate about pros/cons of using a traditional paddle instead.

I used to whitewater kayak in my younger days, so I have some experience with the subject matter. Although, this inquiry is aimed more toward paddle options that would be conducive to canoe country travel using a canoe.

So, without further adieu, for those of you with first hand experience. What type of lightweight yet durable options are out there these days? Also, pointers on determining length, blade angle etc. is greatly appreciated. Plus, are there any decent detachable options out there? (handy for possible use as a single blade in small creeks etc.)

Depending on your canoe width and your height and stroke angle 230-260 cm blades work.

I bet with a WW background you would want to go about 230 with a high angle stroke. An oft mentioned plaint is of course wet in your boat. If you can strive for a low angle stroke and keep the drip rings outboard of the gunwales always, you can avoid wet.

There are so many materials. I prefer either carbon AT paddles or Swift makes a nice narrow wind blade..fiberglass shaft with proprietary blade.

Bending Branches makes some good paddles. I have had my three sets of doubles now and am not sure these particular models are still made.

Wood tends to be heavier. Lots however depends on your budget.

Its a big question you asked and there are so many choices. I prefer the lightest paddle. I have to hold up that shaft all day.

Personally my style might be quite different from yours. I come from a sea kayaking background and have used Greenland paddles, Aleut paddles and a variety of Euro paddles with fat blades and skinny blades. My stroke is very very low angle. Never does my hand come above my nose. Now your style might differ. When I say a 230 works for me, that may be all wrong for you.

I would go with a skinny longer blade for all day cruising. They do not accelerate as well as fatter rounder blades but..are you safety boat and have to do rapid acceleration and deceleration..which is hard on the joints with the mass of a canoe..?

I got into the double paddle when I started kayaking about 15 years ago. All my canoe partners had moved away and my canoe stolen one winter so what was I to do. On last year's canoe trip I took my double with and soon pulled it out to replace the single blade I was using. I was stern and appreciate the balanced movement rather than one side at a time and the ability to course adjust with a novice paddler in the front. As he improved I still felt an advantage having the double blade. I would go for long enough to reduce the drip and maybe a larger blade for canoe than kayak. I agree with the high angle stroke. Lots of brands and quality variation. As you know, light is nice and expensive.

I think Lendal makes paddles that can be converted to a single blade.

Oops, just checked and it looks like they may not be doing it any more. Or maybe the option will come back as they redo their line of paddles.

TB I assume your going to be using this paddle in The Pearl. I am by no means an expert on this subject but Ben schooled me on the length needed. His humble opinion was to use a 280cm that's a 9 ft paddle. I tried it with my solo and it worked very well. Best part was I stayed dry no water drip off the paddle. Maybe Ben will see this after he kills that skunk and put in his 2 pennies.

Sunny also had a 230cm if memory serves and said it was too short.


JB

This little discussion is going on under solo canoeing forum right now

Yak Paddles

Here is the deal, I don't think ANYONE can tell anyone else what length they need. Some folks tried to help me with that, so started with 240, (to short) lots of water coming down the blades into the canoe and on me. So BB fella told me 260, still to short for ME, so Ben (nctry) said go with a 280. So did Martin, so went with that, and it is the best for me. Now that is in a solo canoe, and not all of them are the same, So I have conculuded the best way is to try several and make up your own mind.

By the Way, I have a nice 240 for sale to anyone who wants it.

SunCatcher

Lots of factors to consider - your height and frame, canoe width, center of gravity height, natural stroke preference. Personally, I use a 260cm but could use one a little longer for my Wilderness. I don't use a high angle stroke because that is tiring. If you want a carbon one-piece, I know where you can get a solid carbon fiber one with a ergonomic handle and touring blade shape. They can't do a two piece one over 260cm.

For solo I switched to a double blade and my canoe does so much more of a very straight line. It is so much more efficient for me.
Single blade when I go tandem.
The only problem I do get a little wet with the tandem and do wear rain pants at times.

quote PINETREE: "For solo I switched to a double blade and my canoe does so much more of a very straight line. It is so much more efficient for me.
Single blade when I go tandem.
The only problem I do get a little wet with the tandem and do wear rain pants at times."

Pine,
You thought about a longer paddle?

if you cant keep a straight line with a canoe paddle youre doing something wrong.

I may be,but I have watched solo paddlers for years and they are doing various strokes to stay straight and have to constantly change sides,if I want each motion of the paddle is a power stroke. It is rare I can't keep up with the best tandem paddlers. Each paddle is a power stroke and the front of the canoe is practically a straight line.

quote Beaverjack: "

quote PINETREE: "For solo I switched to a double blade and my canoe does so much more of a very straight line. It is so much more efficient for me.
Single blade when I go tandem.
The only problem I do get a little wet with the tandem and do wear rain pants at times."

Pine,
You thought about a longer paddle? "

Yes, I have and it would probably keep me a little drier. We talked about this last year with a very long forum. One individual had great luck with little cuts in his paddle to deviate the water drip line. I do have the small rubber guards that stop most of the drip but not all. I usually get wetter if I am really trying to move along or fighting winds. To me the kayak paddle is a dream come true in paddling efficiency and fun.

I think that is why kayak sport is growing.

quote kanoes: "if you cant keep a straight line with a canoe paddle youre doing something wrong."

And so it begins............ :(

Like Pinetree I always use a double blade when I solo in my Magic on BWCA trips. I carry my bent shaft single blade as a backup and also use it when I go out fishing from camp.

I find with the double it is easier for me to keep up with my sons in their tandem canoes.

I always use my single blade when floating my local trout streams where I don't have to worry about keeping up with anyone or paddling miles across big water.

IMO which style of blade you choose is a personal choice. Choosing a double doesn't mean you don't know how to use a single properly.

It could be a fun ride.
The traditionalist vs whatever. Just like anything, some people will do better with certain equipment,and to each his own.

To each his own......Yes.

There is nothing wrong with being a traditionalist and there is nothing wrong with doing things a bit differently.

While trout fishing my local streams I frequently see the look of contempt from some traditional flyfisherman as I pass by in my canoe or when I've stopped to fish with my spinning reel.

Of course the looks of contempt are more frequent when they walk past our group as we are catching trout after trout with our spinning gear and they struggle to catch a couple trout all day.....

I've used fly fishing gear and occasionally still do for fun. But I find I enjoy catch-n-release numerous trout a lot more fun than catch-n-release just a few.

quote TuscaroraBorealis: "

quote kanoes: "if you cant keep a straight line with a canoe paddle youre doing something wrong."

And so it begins............ :("

Sigh. Yes I too know how to double blade and single blade. And hit and switch. I teach all three.

Nothing says people have to fit into one box.

The OP had nothing to do with the merits of each paddling technique.

I use a bending branches slice solo canoe paddle (fiberglass shaft, 260cm) with my magic. It seems to work best with a short, flat stroke. I get a few drips in the canoe, but nothing substantial.

I tried a 240cm paddle and it was too short...got a lot of water in the canoe. If you like to paddle with a high angle, and don't mind the drips, the shorter paddle may be just fine.

quote TuscaroraBorealis: "

quote kanoes: "if you cant keep a straight line with a canoe paddle youre doing something wrong."

And so it begins............ :("

naah, was just one little snide comment. :)

I paddle my Prism with a 2-piece FoxWorx dbl blade--wood shaft/wood & carbon fiber blades. The 260 cm length (8'6") is a bit of a span but it moves me quite efficiently & fast whenever a situation demands it. Low angle paddler. I maneuver my canoe with ease and never get wet (from paddling). I call that an efficient use of energy and never have fretted or even bothered to be attentive of what others think of it.
I do bring a standard canoe paddle as backup and will use that one when in narrow, reedy paths of waterways. Downside: I've become accustomed & spoiled with the dbl blade usage that I've not mastered single blade strokes. Also, I find it's noisy in comparison to dipping single blade.

(edited)

quote mjmkjun: "I paddle my Prism with a 2-piece FoxWorx dbl blade--wood shaft/wood & carbon fiber blades. The 260 cm length (8'6") is a bit of a span but it moves me quite efficiently & fast whenever a situation demands it. Low angle paddler. I maneuver my canoe with ease and never get wet (from paddling). I call that an efficient use of energy and never have fretted or even bothered to be attentive of what others think of it.
I do bring a standard canoe paddle as backup and will use that one when in narrow, reedy paths of waterways. Downside: I've become accustomed & spoiled with the dbl blade usage that I've not mastered single blade strokes. Also, I find it's noisy in comparison to dipping single blade.

(edited)"

These look like an interesting potential option. Do you have the K3? How durable are these paddles when confronting the rocks that will inevitably be encountered in canoe country? (pushing/poling away from shore etc.) Do they offer some sort of rock guard or....

I'm glad you brought this topic up TB. I have been watching the thread with interest. I have never double bladed in a canoe but did of course in my 'yaking days. Being the proud ex-owner of a 'yak, I am also the proud ex-owner of a dble blade. So this puts me in the market for one as this is what I wish to do as I get more and more into soloing.
I'm really seeing no correlation with height, weight, canoe width, center of gravity, freeboard etc to paddle length, a little bit but not really. Is there any starting point of information that should be in hand prior to purchasing or just start doing what suncatcher did and buy and buy until the right fit is found?
It seems longer is obviously better. How does a shorter vs longer dble affect performance? It seems to me that one would go slower with a longer paddle and a bit faster with a shorter one. Any truth to this thought?

Fitgers1,

I think your observations about paddle length are accurate. But, perhaps someone more in the know (yellowcanoe) could confirm that.

In my search, I've seen some models that allow you to actually change the length of the paddle (a little) as well as the angle of the blades. Not sure if there is a detrimental downside to this??? From the information I've gathered so far, I'm leaning towards a longer (280)paddle. But, I've got all fall/winter to decide, so no need to jump to a hasty conclusion.

Longer paddles do tend to put the blade into the water farther lending to the side stroke more than a deeper cut. Computing the distance from your center to where the best blade entry point would be for your stroke would be my thinking. Longer seems rational in the canoe over yak due to this increase and because it reduces paddle coming over the cockpit with related drip on return.
Again depending on your preference for power vs ease the larger blade would be considered. The typical canoe paddle blade is larger than the typical yak blade for a reason and for my style I have preferred the larger blade with canoe and have tried all three of the double paddles I own.
Most good double paddles separate and have options to twist each blade giving options to the angle of the blade as it enters depending on your stroke style. I picked up a bent shaft and really like how it helps keep my wrist in better alignment to reduce carpal tunnel concerns.
It does not seem buy a bunch until you find a fit, more look at the physics and then consider how much you can afford to get the light durable materials.

quote bhouse46: " buy a bunch until you find a fit, more look at the physics and then consider how much you can afford to get the light durable materials."

Can I presume that 'buy' means 'try'???? As that (buy a bunch) is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Trying to get it right the first time. :)

Am lacking the technical data & specifics for presentaion but I will agree that it's a plus to have a longer yak paddle for canoeing cuz it offers an extended reach. At 5'7", non-chimpanzee arms, I know it makes it easier for me. Plus, I have shorter yak paddles which I used for comparison. My thighs tended to get a little wet with the shorter paddle.
+ canoes are generally wider than yaks.
+ paddler is situated at higher center of gravity, further off the water.
+ Poling thru shallows and pushing from shore is a breeze with the leverage.
+ Under windy conditions it sure makes it easier for me to stay perpendicular to wave action.

I'll post a pic later of my paddle as I don't have one to post now. It was a discontinued model so acquired it heavily discounted. I think FoxWorx was introducing their new models of yak paddles and this was last of old stock/style. The craftsmanship on this particular paddle is a mite sloppy in one area, as pic will show, but it's tough and coated with thick layer of resin. Not fragile or delicate blades yet it's lightweight.

quote TuscaroraBorealis: "Fitgers1,


I think your observations about paddle length are accurate. But, perhaps someone more in the know (yellowcanoe) could confirm that.


In my search, I've seen some models that allow you to actually change the length of the paddle (a little) as well as the angle of the blades. Not sure if there is a detrimental downside to this??? From the information I've gathered so far, I'm leaning towards a longer (280)paddle. But, I've got all fall/winter to decide, so no need to jump to a hasty conclusion. "

Paddle ferrules are a godsend on portages. Portage a long single piece paddle and you will be astounded how much you snag branches. Paddles that join with a pin can get jammed with sand..which makes getting the blades together or apart a sometimes issue.

I have infinitely adjustable paddle ferrules and as long as they are clean and the clamp screw tight they work well. I have not tried adjustable length paddles at all.

I slide my kayak paddle to the front bow and under metal cross bar brace and strap it in with a wide adjustable strap. . No problem you don't even know it is there.

quote TuscaroraBorealis: "

quote mjmkjun: "I paddle my Prism with a 2-piece FoxWorx dbl blade--wood shaft/wood & carbon fiber blades. The 260 cm length (8'6") is a bit of a span but it moves me quite efficiently & fast whenever a situation demands it. Low angle paddler. I maneuver my canoe with ease and never get wet (from paddling). I call that an efficient use of energy and never have fretted or even bothered to be attentive of what others think of it.
I do bring a standard canoe paddle as backup and will use that one when in narrow, reedy paths of waterways. Downside: I've become accustomed & spoiled with the dbl blade usage that I've not mastered single blade strokes. Also, I find it's noisy in comparison to dipping single blade.


(edited)"

These look like an interesting potential option. Do you have the K3? How durable are these paddles when confronting the rocks that will inevitably be encountered in canoe country? (pushing/poling away from shore etc.) Do they offer some sort of rock guard or...."

Did followup and yes, I have the FoxWorx K3 (260 cm)but the version before it was upgrated in 2009. After 3 yrs. of use it has just a few superficial scratches on blade facing. It has held up very well.

quote TuscaroraBorealis: "

quote bhouse46: " buy a bunch until you find a fit, more look at the physics and then consider how much you can afford to get the light durable materials."

Can I presume that 'buy' means 'try'???? As that (buy a bunch) is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Trying to get it right the first time. :)"

I think it would be best to try as many different ones as possible, especially if you can try them at the same time for easier and better comparison. It would also be good if you could this several times under different conditions. Then you could more readily decide what works best for you. I recently used a really long one from Rockwood. I don't know how long, but it was the longest one I've ever used. I'd guess at least 260cm and maybe 280cm. I'm sure Mike could tell you.

I liked it more than shorter ones I've used, but was only able to use it in the conditions that existed at that time and did not have others available for immediate comparison, only the year-old memory of it.

I can tell you that the really long one has a lot of leverage. That can be good and bad I think.

I think maybe a advantage to a shorter one is how far away from the canoe and the angle and position of your arms will be at to be most efficient. I will have to look but I may be at a 240 now. I can paddle all day. I will say don't get a cheapy with plastic handle that is slippery,I did make that mistake.

My buddy, on a trip in May used a double blade otter tail paddle. He killed my brother and I 90% of the time. Not so much in bad weather, but when the water was flat, he cruised. I gave it a try, definitely got a little wet. Want to try it out next year for myself. I can't imagine how fast a tandem could go with a kayak paddle at the bow and a single blade in back. I would definitely add this to the arsenal, so to speak.

Just my 2¢

For those that are using & recommend a paddle over 240cm in length. Once you found a paddle you liked, did you have to special order it? I've noticed several companies (for example Bending Branches) that only offer paddles up to 240cm in length. Or did you just settle on another companies similar paddle that offered your desired length?

Don't have any experience with them, but BB makes double bladed paddles in 260 and 280cm. They're hidden on their web site under canoe paddles / solo.

BB Slice Glass

BB Impression

If you got the cash monies Pat at ONNO paddles will make you one hell of a double blade, likely the best out there, plus his two piece can be adjusted 10 cm, so you have a little room to play with. Keep it long to reduce water in the boat, shorten it up when doing high angle power strokes. They are all custom so length can be anything you want, he has tons of blade profiles to pick from and then a few construction options, full carbon, carbon over a core ect.. A full carbon custom from him will be cheaper than a full carbon Werner off the shelf, really great operation. I’m pretty sure I’ll be doing a full carbon two piece from him, full tour blade, 260-270cm shaft, but I’m slightly leaning towards a shorter 250-260cm. I’m not to worried about water, if its nice and warm it feels good, if its cold I’m usually wearing rain gear anyways.

I sit in a prism on the floor tractor seat,I think seat position and your height will make a difference.

Old double blade forum

quote PINETREE: " Old double blade forum "

jdevries posting (#12 down) encourages me to fashion my own t-handle to fit ferrule so I can use a single blade paddle when needed. Haven't found any online. He crafted a really nice yak paddle.

TBorealis, check out FoxWorx input on paddle size selection. note their comment for paddles of solo canoes. size matters

FoxWorx 260cm yak paddle/discounted item/3 yrs. usage

The T-handle to fit the ferrule is a GREAT idea! I'd like to see some extender tubes also designed to fit between the ferrules.

I don't understand why the T grip to insert into a paddle that is incorrectly shaped for vertical entry.. at the best it would be good emergency stuff for a ferrule that broke..which they do.

quote fraxinus: "Don't have any experience with them, but BB makes double bladed paddles in 260 and 280cm. They're hidden on their web site under canoe paddles / solo.

BB Slice Glass

BB Impression "

but be aware that you will pay extra for them, about 30-40 bucks
the BB wood 280 yak paddle is beautiful but WAY heavy

FYI BB fit chart for double blades in a canoe

quote ZaraSp00k: "

quote fraxinus: "Don't have any experience with them, but BB makes double bladed paddles in 260 and 280cm. They're hidden on their web site under canoe paddles / solo.

BB Slice Glass

BB Impression "

but be aware that you will pay extra for them, about 30-40 bucks
the BB wood 280 yak paddle is beautiful but WAY heavy

"

I admit I missed seeing those paddles when I first looked. And, yes, they appear to be WAY heavy versus other paddles.

I e-mailed BB about the possibility of offering some of their other (lighter) paddles in lengths longer than 240cm. Still waiting for a response..... Which is why I asked the question here as well.

I use a cannon Nokomis 260 cm fiberglass shaft with a nylon blade. I would not have been able to keep up with the group I was paddling with earlier this month without it. You do get wet with a dbp, and yes i know i'm using it upside down...






Photo's taken by DCooke.

Received an e-mail response from Bending Branches:

Hello Paul,
Thank you for the email and interest in our Navigator paddle.

Yes, the ferrule is standard with 3 holes for adjustment, and no, the blades cannot be detached.

We are glad to build this model in 280cm and charge $50 extra for the additional length.

Please contact your local retailer to place this special order.

Kind Regards,

Sonya Swanson
Sales & Marketing Specialist
Branches, LLC
715-755-3405 (phone)

quote yellowcanoe: "I don't understand why the T grip to insert into a paddle that is incorrectly shaped for vertical entry.. at the best it would be good emergency stuff for a ferrule that broke..which they do."

Only to get through those shallow, reedy sections on a route when managing an 8' foot paddle is awkward. (i.e. ADA creek) NOT for extended paddling on open waters.

I also flip my yak paddle upsidedown at times to push more water with forward strokes.

quote mjmkjun: "

quote yellowcanoe: "I don't understand why the T grip to insert into a paddle that is incorrectly shaped for vertical entry.. at the best it would be good emergency stuff for a ferrule that broke..which they do."

Only to get through those shallow, reedy sections on a route when managing an 8' foot paddle is awkward. (i.e. ADA creek) NOT for extended paddling on open waters.


I also flip my yak paddle upsidedown at times to push more water with forward strokes.


"

There is a problem with flipping an asymmetrical paddle. Paddles were designed that way to provide the maximum leverage with the print right side up and accounts for the angle the blade contacts the water with. I have watched so many people start out with their double blades upside down.. Its hard to convince them otherwise. There is less blade area in the water upside down. Have someone take a picture and you will see.

I have taken my double apart in mangrove tunnels..but a grip isnt mandatory. You can j stroke with half a yak paddle to get through tight areas.

quote tyh: "I use a cannon Nokomis 260 cm fiberglass shaft with a nylon blade.

"

wow, that's a high paddle stroke, just curious, have you tried a lower paddle stroke?

I'm curious why people use a high stroke, seems it would be a lower cadence, more strain, and slower. Plus in a canoe, much wetter.

sorry if this hijacks the thread, but it seems to me it's important to the length of the blade.

I have actually pulled the paddle apart and used it similar to ski poles to get through marshy areas and very shallow water. Not so good in a loaded boat, but works fine when out just getting to places I usually do not visit.

Yes, stroke angle is an important part of picking a paddle length. High angle strokes are actually high cadence and fast. Done right they use the torso and upper arm very effectively to keep strain down. The kayak racers around here use them and some of these people are screaming fast. The good kayakers who aren't racing use them a lot and it is impressive what they can get a sea kayak to do. So, I wouldn't knock it as a stroke.

You are right, however, about getting wetter in a canoe.

I guess I was referring to paddling a tripping canoe with a double blade. A canoe is both wider and higher than a kayak. And paddling 10 miles is different than 1K.

Around here the kayakers get to together on Wednesdays, the racers on Thursday. Watching them, and talking to them, is how I learned. While the higher stroke seems to be preferred by the go-fasters, it appears to also require more energy. Those guys are in much better shape than the typical paddler. In addition, I don’t think you can compare a longer narrower craft to the ones used for tripping. While both techniques are used by trippers, the ones using high stroke are certainly going no faster, they seem to use a slow cadence when paddling long distance, which isn’t surprising, since the paddle moves far more than if it was lower. Also, lower appears to involve the core more. If nothing else, holding the paddle higher and father away from the body has to be more tiring.

Tough to make an apples to apples comparison since there are so many variables, the craft, the distance, condition of paddler, how good the technique,… but it appears to me that when I encounter someone in a kayak using a high stroke, they can quickly accelerate and leave me behind for a short time, but eventually they tire of this high cadence and I pass them and leave them behind, often it does not take long.

I dunno, I don't claim to be an expert, just wondering and stating my observations.

Yep, there are lots of reasons for picking different strokes and they do affect the paddle length. I have experimented with my kayak paddles in a canoe and because they are short (230 cm, I think), I had to use a high angle stroke. I found it very powerful but I haven't tried it for a long day of tripping. I've wanted to try a longer paddle but haven't gotten around to it. That year we decided to use a 3-person canoe so I wasn't paddling solo anyway. Besides, in the end, I really love a single bladed paddle even if I see the wisdom in a double bladed one.

The kayak racers around here are doing 5 to 10 mile races. So it is not just a sprint. However, you are right that they are using really skinny boats and are in awesome shape.

quote yellowcanoe: "I don't understand why the T grip to insert into a paddle that is incorrectly shaped for vertical entry.. at the best it would be good emergency stuff for a ferrule that broke..which they do."

Bingo.

I use the bending branches 280 cm solo. Works great paired with a Wenonah Voyager.


http://www.bendingbranches.com/paddles/canoe/solo/impression-solo

So, do you somehow (BDB's???) strap the paddle inside your boat for portaging, or just carry it?

I started with a 240cm double paddle in my OT Pack canoe mainly because I didn't know how to use a single and keep the boat going straight. Previously in kayaks only. I have learned to use the single and like it a lot better than the double for small local waters. I always take the double to the BW and use it as my main getting from place to pace paddle. I do get a little wet, even with 2 sets of drip rings, but as a wet footer (and a clumsy one at that)that happens anyway.

I've managed some heavy wind and water with the double that I don't think I could have with a single. It's just my preference.The single is always along as the backup and slow cruising paddle.

quote TuscaroraBorealis: "So, do you somehow (BDB's???) strap the paddle inside your boat for portaging, or just carry it?"

My BB Slice 260 fits nicely under the seat on my magic without splitting it in two. I use a velcro strap to secure it to the portage yoke, which is attached to the seat. As I portage, the handle sits by my right ear.

I'm an old fuddy dud on most things (i.e. portage packs), but "traditional" paddles ain't necessarily older than double blades, and I can use both. I just choose a double cause it works. 10 years ago I probably would have argued the other side, however.

TB- I've done both - six of one, half dozen of the other, although a really long one can be awkward on a tight portage. Carrying it saves fussing with strapping it in, but strapping it in makes a nice thing to hold on to.

Mainly out of loyalty to a great company. I went with the Bending Branches Navigator

Now for the first test run.....

more double bladed paddle talk

quote TuscaroraBorealis: "Mainly out of loyalty to a great company. I went with the Bending Branches Navigator


Now for the first test run....."

That really looks nice. If it paddles half as good as it looks,you got a winner.
I love the double blade for solo,it is so much more efficient.