i've been thinking about why i love camping. and i've been thinking about why i love gear. and the answers to those questions seem at odds with each other. there are many reasons, of course, why i love camping, but one persistent reason has always been the thrill and satisfaction of living with limited stuff. at home i have a house/office/garage/shed full of stuff that is supposed to be useful, but generally it just clutters and complicates my life.

on the trail, i have what i am carrying -- no more no less. and i have to meet my needs with what's at hand. as a kid who grew up among suburban yuppies through the decade(s) of conspicuous consumption, i find the minimalist reality of camping soothing. i use what i have, and i improvise and innovate as necessary. although i'm always evaluating how well my gear is performing on trail, i'm not pining for a better pack, a lighter bag, a fancier spoon. i actually feel perfectly content with what i have.

but when i'm not on the trail, some switch flips inside me. i shop. i scheme about acquiring more things -- all under the guise that my acquisitions will allow me to more fully enjoy my minimalist zen on the next trip, but that's a pretty thin veneer over my latent materialism.

i have been struck -- even confounded -- by this contradiction in my character. it makes me wonder about the size of the consumptive footprint i leave so i can go out into the woods and "leave no trace." what are the aluminum mining and processing operations like that produce a tent pole? what are the ecological costs of kevlar? but those questions are really just diversions from the struggle to reconcile the contradiction of being, at once, a minimalist and a materialist.

i thought if anyone could relate, it might be someone in this forum.

DEEP!

Mogos,
You're a deep thinker like me!
I wish more people were into thinking.
Dick

When on the trail you are away from advertising in all its forms including (if your mail is like ours) a plethora of Campmor, REI, Piragis, ..... catalogs. Not to mention the most effective form of advertising: word of mouth which around here is word of fingers. Probably lets you clear your head.

Mogos, I have the same struggle.

Right now, we're trying to sell our condo and have packed up much of our belongings and put them in storage (we donated stuff, too). I don't know where all that stuff used to be, because it still feels full. And I'm getting by with less just fine. But I find myself thinking about some of the things I have packed away. Sometimes they call to me. My extra bowl for my KitchenAid mixer...wow, that would be nice. My angel food cake pan. Certain books. My craft things. I have craft things to fill an entire room, and now I only have one big tote and a couple bags. Picture albums. I hope those didn't get ruined spending a winter in a cold garage. I struggle against buying more. My daughter turns 12 tomorrow...she doesn't really need more stuff, does she? But we're having a birthday party for her...there's a crapload of stuff she doesn't need. I'm hoping for itunes gift cards. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if kids didn't bring a present. ;-)

Sigh.

All the more reason, though, to get out there, and to take the kids. We HAVE to show them how to get by with less.

Excellent post/insight. I agree the concepts can be conflicting. For me, carrying everything I need to survive is definitely part of the thrill of tripping.

I grew up with parents who saw no need to improve on something that was already remotely functional - and still use a dilapidated canvas hand-me-down army tent that we used when I was a kid. Screens are duct taped, etc. So, I cannot blame my parents for my love of more (and more) gear. In fact, I think that backfired. I lived with so little for so long that I exploded once I could afford new stuff on my own.

I slept with an old army sleeping bag (cotton) which my grandmother re-lined with new flannel before I took it to college. I used that same bag and a variety of quilts/blankets, none under 20 years old, while I camped my way through my 20s. No tent, cheapo tarp and clothesline. There's a lot of that frugal person left in me and I do love to find deals AND buying used is 100% ok, but I also love having stuff that WORKS and that is not a barely-functional relic (no objection to a totally-functional relic).

"Stuff that WORKS" is re-defined over time... from car camping with a pile of wool blankets on a groundcloth, to huge heavy inflatable pads also on a groundcloth, to closed cell foam for canoe camping with a Timberline, to lite inflatables, to Expeds... it has all changed over time with changes in camping style and with "means" to acquire it. Truth? I still own ALL OF IT. The wool blankets are in the laundry room, the huge inflatable pads are in the basement, the closed cell foam is in the garage, and the lite/Exped inflatables are in the gear closet. All still "functional" so can't toss it, but some rarely used any more (maybe the upcoming slumber party for kiddo's birthday?).

Sigh. Yes, I can relate.

Nola, your story reminded me that my sister sent me a book while my new house was being built.

I had lived in a small cabin that was originally summer quarters and was kind of slowly turned into a year round home. It was still tiny at 1300 square feet (well, tiny for a family of five, a palace for a single person). I felt we were bursting at the seams, and I'd always dreamed of designing a home, so eventually after about 9 years, I did, and increased the square footage significantly (and brought things up to code, etc.).

The book I got from my sister was a Native Alaskan tale about a small home. The wise elder told the worried family to bring in one animal after another. The family followed the elder's advice and brought into their small home animal after animal. Eventually, the elder said they could let all the animals go - and voila, they had a bigger home. They were all very happy.

I love my new home, but honestly some days I wish I had followed the advice of the elder in the story. More space = more stuff, and I am drowning in it.

YES on bday presents... I'm hoping for movie tickets or museum memberships or consumable food or SOMETHING besides "stuff"!

The guy who I'm paddling with this spring and I got together at his place for some planning. I'd say he's a cookkit junkie. He has a number of kits still in the box (mostly GSI) with the idea he may need them someday. When GSI went to plastic lids, he bought several kits with the frypan lids. He has two of most things and if I asked what he thought of something he not only had a viewpoint, but he had whatever kit or whatever I was asking about. It got me thinking how I was becoming a sort of gear junkie... I need to be able to live with what I have... I have to go now... I have an REI dividend to spend...

Very interesting topic here. After pondering your post, I've evaluated my own GAS(gear acquisition syndrome) and come up with a theory: I only take a couple of trips a year and enjoy my time canoeing/camping. The rest of the year I'm planning my trips and pouring over maps and catalogs. This browsing is in reality a touchstone to the BWCA.

While comparing the specifications of the gear I own to the gear I am considering I find myself taken back to previous times when the gear in question was being used, and how this new thing would have improved the situation. This usually leads to looking at my photos of past trips and recalling fond memories.

So I see this mimimalist/materialist dichotomy is not a conflict, it's simply a way to maintain your sanity between camping trips.

quote Kangi: "So I see this mimimalist/materialist dichotomy is not a conflict, it's simply a way to maintain your sanity between camping trips."

By george (or Kangi) I think you've got something there! I can just sit and LOOK at gear and find peace in the memories of the past or dreams of the future.

Kangi, agreed. I hope I'm not agreeing because I've found a rationalization, but I really do think you're on to something.

i went thru what i think is the normal gear buying pattern.the first couple trips were old gear,Boy Scout and Army and no tent.i just picked up stuff around the house and went.the flashlight was out of the cars glove box.then a few years of "this will make it better" then a few of "this will make it more fun" then "this will make it lighter"..so gear from the first "this wills" is still sitting around semi used.

I think you've touched on what is the whole point, at least for me. On the trail/lake, etc, priorities are stripped down to the essentials. Eat when I'm hungry, sleep when it's dark. As Sigurd Olson said so poetically, "I know now as men accept the time clock of the wilderness, their lives become entirely different. It is one of the great compensations of primitive experience, and when one finally reaches the point where days are governed by daylight and dark...where one eats if hungry and sleeps when tired... when one finally arrives at the point where schedules are forgotten... and becomes completely immersed in the ancient rhythms, then one begins to live."

Once back out of those rhythms, life is no longer stripped to those essentials and we deal with the more mundane things like work, bills, responsibilities, etc. And since we can't escape at the moment, we fill in by looking at maps (and *websites*) and plan our gear, our routes, etc. It's enjoyable to do that as well. A friend of mine calls it "displacement activity".

quote Benutzer: "I think you've touched on what is the whole point, at least for me. On the trail/lake, etc, priorities are stripped down to the essentials. Eat when I'm hungry, sleep when it's dark. As Sigurd Olson said so poetically, "I know now as men accept the time clock of the wilderness, their lives become entirely different. It is one of the great compensations of primitive experience, and when one finally reaches the point where days are governed by daylight and dark...where one eats if hungry and sleeps when tired... when one finally arrives at the point where schedules are forgotten... and becomes completely immersed in the ancient rhythms, then one begins to live."

Once back out of those rhythms, life is no longer stripped to those essentials and we deal with the more mundane things like work, bills, responsibilities, etc. And since we can't escape at the moment, we fill in by looking at maps (and *websites*) and plan our gear, our routes, etc. It's enjoyable to do that as well. A friend of mine calls it "displacement activity"."

This is spot on for me.

quote mogos: "i've been thinking about why i love camping. and i've been thinking about why i love gear. and the answers to those questions seem at odds with each other. there are many reasons, of course, why i love camping, but one persistent reason has always been the thrill and satisfaction of living with limited stuff. at home i have a house/office/garage/shed full of stuff that is supposed to be useful, but generally it just clutters and complicates my life.

on the trail, i have what i am carrying -- no more no less. and i have to meet my needs with what's at hand. as a kid who grew up among suburban yuppies through the decade(s) of conspicuous consumption, i find the minimalist reality of camping soothing. i use what i have, and i improvise and innovate as necessary. although i'm always evaluating how well my gear is performing on trail, i'm not pining for a better pack, a lighter bag, a fancier spoon. i actually feel perfectly content with what i have.

but when i'm not on the trail, some switch flips inside me. i shop. i scheme about acquiring more things -- all under the guise that my acquisitions will allow me to more fully enjoy my minimalist zen on the next trip, but that's a pretty thin veneer over my latent materialism.

i have been struck -- even confounded -- by this contradiction in my character. it makes me wonder about the size of the consumptive footprint i leave so i can go out into the woods and "leave no trace." what are the aluminum mining and processing operations like that produce a tent pole? what are the ecological costs of kevlar? but those questions are really just diversions from the struggle to reconcile the contradiction of being, at once, a minimalist and a materialist.

i thought if anyone could relate, it might be someone in this forum."

I can definitely relate - I enjoy the thrill of being outdoors and getting by with what I've got in my pack and canoe. I also like the planning aspect of the trip. It's half the fun. And the gear buying is all part of the experience for me - getting that extra piece of gear I never had or a lighter, more durable version of the old gear. I don't get hung up at all on the carbon footprint of my gear though. The lunch I had today may be responsible for a larger carbon footprint than the lightweight stove I bought last week.

This is a great thread. Insightful thoughts of people who look beyond the surface.

A different hypothesis....

The off-season planning is simply "foreplay" ... you can figure out the rest. :)

Old Hoosier

quote Old Hoosier: "This is a great thread. Insightful thoughts of people who look beyond the surface.

A different hypothesis....

The off-season planning is simply "foreplay" ... you can figure out the rest. :)

Old Hoosier"

I like "foreplay" and so far I have never been dissapointed in the BWCA..!

For me, unfortunately, its too much foreplay and not enough action.

I am struggling with this big time. I appreciate good gear and have been upgrading (especially after reading the gear forum...)and struggle with getting rid of the old gear because I use it occasionally. My walls are growing inward so some of it has to go and I need to change my ways.

My brother and I get into discussions of materialism fairly often. He doesn't want to spend a penny on tools, gear or adventures and he criticizes my accumulation, but when we have carpentry projects, hunting trips, and BWCA trips; the materialistic brother comes to the rescue.

So...
I enjoy my gear and appreciate it even if I get accused of being a gear junky at times.

Thought of this thread when I read this article about one persons reasons for avoiding groupon.

You can either be a true minimalist and run into the woods naked, or you can be like the rest of us. I am content being on this side of the fence.

And if it is environmental impact you worry about, forget about trip/gear impact, and worry about how much food, fuel, and needless things you consume the other 298 days a year.

I'm not ragging on anyone, because I know where you are coming from and have also progressed through gear addiction. We have been tought to throw away functional to replace with better. We have been told how much we deserve for all of our hard work. We are the ultimate consumers. In the woods, consumption is not an option, so we dont consider it.

But if you think about it, you could buy new gear every year, and drive a 36 cylinder truck 1000 miles to get to BWCA, and still leave a smaller eco footprint than most people leave when they go to Disney for a week or on a cruise.

Peace be with you.

quote bumabu: "You can either be a true minimalist and run into the woods naked, or you can be like the rest of us. I am content being on this side of the fence.

And if it is environmental impact you worry about, forget about trip/gear impact, and worry about how much food, fuel, and needless things you consume the other 298 days a year.

I'm not ragging on anyone, because I know where you are coming from and have also progressed through gear addiction. We have been tought to throw away functional to replace with better. We have been told how much we deserve for all of our hard work. We are the ultimate consumers. In the woods, consumption is not an option, so we dont consider it.

But if you think about it, you could buy new gear every year, and drive a 36 cylinder truck 1000 miles to get to BWCA, and still leave a smaller eco footprint than most people leave when they go to Disney for a week or on a cruise.

Peace be with you."

Great reply, Bumabu. But you forgot one thing: you'd spend less $$$ too!

Such a great thread! I think we all struggle with the dichotomy of loving the simplicity of the wilderness- yet loving the "perfect piece of gear". For me- I have carefully accumulated the basics, added a few luxuries to my gear load. There is an amazing feeling when the packs are ready to go- in the canoe so neatly and efficiently- I get this whoosh of "I can go anywhere!!! I could be gone... forever!!"
The sense that I don't need another thing to be in this perfect place adds to the experience of the simplicity.

quote strom2127: "

quote Benutzer: "I think you've touched on what is the whole point, at least for me. On the trail/lake, etc, priorities are stripped down to the essentials. Eat when I'm hungry, sleep when it's dark. As Sigurd Olson said so poetically, "I know now as men accept the time clock of the wilderness, their lives become entirely different. It is one of the great compensations of primitive experience, and when one finally reaches the point where days are governed by daylight and dark...where one eats if hungry and sleeps when tired... when one finally arrives at the point where schedules are forgotten... and becomes completely immersed in the ancient rhythms, then one begins to live."

Once back out of those rhythms, life is no longer stripped to those essentials and we deal with the more mundane things like work, bills, responsibilities, etc. And since we can't escape at the moment, we fill in by looking at maps (and *websites*) and plan our gear, our routes, etc. It's enjoyable to do that as well. A friend of mine calls it "displacement activity"."

This is spot on for me."

I've never heard it put any better.

Nice post Mongos- I certainly relate

I plan, buy, order and build gear because it helps me cope with the onslaught of everyday life.
Have a great Friday!

quote Soledad: "Nice post Mongos- I certainly relate"

+1....made me think. a good thing.

Regarding simplicity in our lives, I have had a secret appreciation of power outages (especially since I've retired) for many years. I like the oil lamps, wood heat, and snow to keep the fridge cool. I like that I get more reading done than during normal times.
However, I am not a true minimalist in this matter. I brag to the neighbors how I had the foresight to go with a propane stove and oven, instead of going all electric. I also just recently thought of acquiring one of the solar showers used in camping, to use in the house with water heated from the wood or propane stoves.
Although not a true minimalist, I am not anxious to maintain many of the luxuries of modern life during power outages, either. When I was much younger, I thought that I needed to acquire a power generator. Today, I am glad that I never bothered with that particular acquisition because reading books and listening to battery-operated radio in the glow of the wood stove seems to fulfill some, as yet unidentified (by me), need that the television and computer, under the glare of electric lights, don't.
Perhaps the maintenance of a simpler life-style, while not succoming to that which nature throws at us, is (for lack of other words) good for the soul. Surely, the need for more simplicity in our lives stretches beyond our limited hours of recreation in the woods.

I don't think it's a rare quality to be a 'gear junkie' and to love the simplicty of the outdoors. I have a gear room at home with more equipment than some small outdoor shops it seems. Buying gear, building gear, and tinkering with your gear is something different than the outdoor experience. I have seen this in friends that own small outdoor related gear companies who build things, ie: backpacks. It seems to me that GEAR is almost an outlet to experience the outdoors, when one is stuck at home, or in suburbia. When we get a package of new equipment, or when we inventory our stuff, or make mods to our stuff.. it's almost as if we are conjuring up all the good memories we have had living a relatively simple outdoor experience.

I remember reading an article in Reader's Digest, back in the 70s, written by a guy who was recalling the hiking he had done back in the 1920s and how radically different it was from the 1970s and its "high tech" equipment. He would leave home wearing his regular, leather, street shoes. He carried a rolled and tied blanket for sleeping which he slung over his shoulder. I can't remember if he had a knapsack for the cans of beans he carried or if the cans were in the rolled blanket but you get the idea....it doesn't really take much to enjoy the outdoors.
I sometimes wonder if embarrassment of having inferior equipment might be a part of why we have a "need" to acquire the latest stuff.
OK, ok....I admit that I would no longer sleep on the ground (in my sixties) if I didn't have one of those high tech sleeping mats. The sleeping mat, however, has largely become a real necessity, not a perceived necessity, in my case.

quote Kangi: "Very interesting topic here. After pondering your post, I've evaluated my own GAS(gear acquisition syndrome) and come up with a theory: I only take a couple of trips a year and enjoy my time canoeing/camping. The rest of the year I'm planning my trips and pouring over maps and catalogs. This browsing is in reality a touchstone to the BWCA.

While comparing the specifications of the gear I own to the gear I am considering I find myself taken back to previous times when the gear in question was being used, and how this new thing would have improved the situation. This usually leads to looking at my photos of past trips and recalling fond memories.

So I see this mimimalist/materialist dichotomy is not a conflict, it's simply a way to maintain your sanity between camping trips."

I was reading this thread thinking how obvious the answer was fro my perspective and lo & behold, someone else thought the same way. Touchstone was an eloquent way to describe it. It's the same reason I have a subscription the the BW Journal.

WARNING: SENSELESS, RAMBLING RANT!!!!!

Let's face it...we all like getting more and better gear because it's the nature of our species. We are the only animal on this planet who, for the most part, are rarely satisfied with what we have at any given moment. There will always be something else to discover, something new to learn, a path we've never gone down before, or, for the vast majority of us, something material we haven't yet acquired. It's why capitalism works, much to the detriment of the planet on which we happen to reside. Communism was a failed experiment, largely because it goes against basic human nature (with the exception, of course, of the ones in charge, who greatly benefited from the autocracy that the system necessitated). I'm willing to bet that not a single one of us who frequent this board, as much as we love the sights, smells, and sounds of pristine wilderness, would be willing to eschew our established technology and infrastructure, leaving it all behind to become a hunter-gatherer. We just don't have the skills anymore to live off the land without of the products of industry at our disposal, no guns, fishing equipment, basic tools, or even clothing...it's something we've lost, and there's a reason for that...it really, really sucked living without our 'stuff'! Few of us would make it through the temperate months without it, let alone a brutal North country winter! It's evident in many of the trip reports posted here, how that shower sure felt good after scumming it out in the woods for a week, and how good that first icy cold, frosty beverage of choice tastes! We venture into the wilderness to satisfy some primal need to return to the basics and enjoy the beauty of the world as it was before we tore it all up, but we also need to come back to society to fill our not-so-basic needs.

Please bear with me, I'm not sure what my point is yet, but I am sure that I'll get to it eventually. Meanwhile, I need to take a break to go fetch a manufactured product of one of the greatest discoveries of humankind, that magical mixture of malted grain, water, microoganisms, and in this case, hops (it's Bell's Two Hearted).....

....aaaaaaahhhhhhh......

So, as I was saying, the proliferation of our species on Earth is largely due to our always wanting more. The infrastructure and related technological innovations that allow us to exist in the density and numbers that we do was due in part to the desire for the betterment of mankind, but it is sustained by greed. Big storm knocked the power out? Don't worry, it'll get fixed soon, 'cause the longer it takes to get fixed, the more money someone is losing. The infrastructure feeds the economy, and the economy feeds the infrastructure, and it keeps growing and spreading. Go to any business academic and tell them that a reasonable corporate strategy would be to maintain zero growth, and you'll get laughed out of the room! If a company has no growth, it will either cease to exist or get swallowed up by another. Biggering and biggering. Luckily, some common sense has prevailed in this country and some Truffulas have been protected in the form of our treasured wilderness areas, but we've pushed environmental devastation off to China 'cause we just looove buyin' those cheap goods! And as the world economy keeps growing, the limited resources on this planet will keep dwindling until we eventually will have to revert back to a lower standard of living OR some yet-to-be discovered technological discovery enables us to keep proliferating (a Mr. Fusion, perhaps?)

So I think I'm finally getting to the point here. Why are there so many new gadgets to buy? Because someone somewhere is thinking 'I can do better than that' and creates a newer, smarter version of something that she knows she will sell a lot of and make her life a more comfortable one. And why do we go out and buy it? Because it makes our life more comfortable, to a point. Those of us lucky enough to own Kevlar canoes would have a hard time going back to that old Grumman. But do we really need to get rid of our Kevlar and get a carbon fiber 'just because'? Yeah, it looks cool, but it's only a couple pounds lighter. To a degree, our materialistic tendencies allow us to be minimalist when we go out into the woods, because technological advances have made it possible. We don't have to lug a jug of fresh water around 'cause we have a $100 filter (that clogs up with invisible algae and tannins, but that's a whole 'nother subject). It helps us to a point, and we all have a responsibility to recognize where that point is. Don't be guilty, just be cognizant. It's our nature.

My wife was playing with her Droid while we were watching our 42" HDTV (guilty as charged), and she was looking up who the richest people in the world were. Some Mexican guy is worth $74 billion, ahead of Bill Gates' $56 billion, ahead of Warren Buffet's $50 billion, and it goes on and on. Who needs that much money? No one, but there are a lot of really poor people in the world that look at us the very same way. It puts things in perspective.

My personal Example.

Day One- Work bought a new refrigerator, I claimed the box so my kids could have a new toy.

Day Two- Bought myself new rain gear for trips this year.

I too am conflicted- but the refrigerator box is AWESOME!!! It now doubles as a robot/doll house.

This thread got me thinking of this song. Seems relevant.

I love that whole cd soundtrack and I am not an Eddie Vetter fan per se. That's a great song.

I find myself trying to bring only the essentials for this years solo. Mainly to keep the weight and bulk down. I suffered on my previous solos of too much stuff.

For example, this time I'm leaving the french press home and using starbucks via coffee singles and will just drink it black and leave the creamer home. This was a tough decision and I went back and forth for a time.

I bought a new very small tackle box and that is a huge step for me as I usually bring many lures that I never touch during a trip.

I want to go simple and light this time. My SLR camera will be my luxury item along with a book.

Nice thing about Starbucks coffee Tom is that it is pre-sweetened. At least the carmel flavor is.

Bumabu, you are inspirational to me as far as going light. I read a trip report of yours and saw how you tripped with no stove and minimal sleeping quarters. It became very attractive to me.

I thought about fire only and bringing an esbit stove but ultimately decided to go with my trusty whisperlite. It's gear I know and am very comfortable with.

Great discussion! Thanks for posting your thoughts.
I can see how the acquisition of new / better gear can be construed as materialistic, and this clearly extends beyond the lines of camping. Defining what is "too much" in camping (and in life) certainly depends on context. I'd wager that the folks sleeping under bridges in Mpls (or wherever) tonight could find good use for much of the stuff we no longer want or take for granted. Others might look at me and ask why I don't have x, y, or z posession and wonder how I get by without it. I'm fine, really. Thanks...
Having said that, it seems that human nature is to want more, better, etc. Also, both in work and in recreation, a lot of times we want to elevate to "the next level." For most of us, time spent in the outdoors is a hobby. People can get pretty passionate about their hobbies, whatever they may be, and end up investing a lot in them, time-wise and financially. The concept of being 'cognizant' (to use Bonvicken's term) of time and finances and materialism as it applies to the big picture of our role on this planet is a good one. I think the line between passion and obsession, enthusiasm and pathology as it applies to gear, etc. largely depends on reference point and intent. Where that line exists is probably different for all of us.
I've thought for a long time that perhaps whenever I invest in something "recreational" for me, I should give the same amount to charity. While I do try to be generous, I haven't figured out how close those number come to balancing. Maybe that's a thought...
Sorry for rambling. The answer seemed more clear when I started typing, but the succint answer seems to have flown away...

bonvicken, great rambling, good stuff in there.

No - I wouldn't go back to being a hunter gatherer. I might like to get closer than I am now, but truth be told I'd have to change too much and I don't have that in me at the moment.

@jeriatric - love your descriptions, I can see you reading and feeding your soul by firelight. I was worried when you started talking solar shower, but then you said water would be heated by the fire. I traveled to Israel and my lodging did have a solar heated shower - in JANUARY, I had ice cold showers every single day save one where it was borderline warm. Stick to a solution where you can guarantee at least lukewarm water!

quote BWPaddler: "bonvicken, great rambling, good stuff in there.


No - I wouldn't go back to being a hunter gatherer. I might like to get closer than I am now, but truth be told I'd have to change too much and I don't have that in me at the moment.


@jeriatric - love your descriptions, I can see you reading and feeding your soul by firelight. I was worried when you started talking solar shower, but then you said water would be heated by the fire. I traveled to Israel and my lodging did have a solar heated shower - in JANUARY, I had ice cold showers every single day save one where it was borderline warm. Stick to a solution where you can guarantee at least lukewarm water!"

They had a crappy system, BWP. My father has put in 2 different solar systems (for both heating the house & the water) in 2 different houses, and we never had a problem with hot water year round. How'd you like to only have the cost of running the fans/pumps (depending on the system) to heat your home? It can happen. Too bad the panels are still not priced appropriately. (too expensive!)

quote ripple: There is an amazing feeling when the packs are ready to go- in the canoe so neatly and efficiently- I get this whoosh of "I can go anywhere!!! I could be gone... forever!"

This most closely captures how I feel in the bush. I have never consciously approached tripping from the standpoint of being as minimalist as possible but I love the feeling of being self sufficient, knowing that because of the carefully selected gear that I have on my back, I could stay out far longer than the five days that I have planned.

I can use the following as an example. 25 years ago I didn't have a cell phone, Internet, cable or satellite, or insurance on four vehicles,or a big screen TV. (Just bought a 36" flat screen from daughter hand me down)

We had a 19" black & white TV. We ate a lot more mac & cheese and hot dogs and did not eat out very often.

Are we any better off now? Probably not. The more you make....the more you spend. Just the nature of the beast or human behavior.

I do still have some gear that is 30 + years old but most of it stays home.

My down sleeping bag is from 1982. It's made by a defunct company called Back To Basics. I still have a down vest that I ordered at the same time. The companys marketing was that their products were "simple, functional, and extremely well made".

That's how I like all my gear to be. Made to last forever if you maintain them properly. I've never thought twice about "updating" my bag just cause it's old so I can have the latest technology bag.

TomT, i agree. Gimme the Made to Last stuff. I do think Too many things are throw away these days. What's wrong with getting stuff fixed? IMO somethings wrong when a new one is cheaper than getting it fixed, if fixing is even an option.