I am struggling with this. Got wife's permission to get new bag! Besides 9 days in Quetico I also backpack in Missouri in the fall or winter. Maybe in the 20's at night.
I am thinking of getting a nice 20degree down bag. May be a little cold in winter but thought I could add a liner. Will I be miserable in Quetico? I usual go the third week in June. Will I roast? Any thought appreciated.
Dan

A 20 degree bag for a Quetico trip in late June will be just fine.

Two years ago in the first week of June it was in the mid 20's according to the temps in Ely. I wish I had that bag that trip. You will be fine in June, August???

Thanks. Think I'll be ok in the winter also.

Keep in mind that "20 degrees" varies greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer. There is no standardized test. You will discover that some interpret it to being comfortable at 20 degrees while others take it to mean won't freeze to death at 20.

Be sure to find reviews before buying any bag.

While I am sure that lots of folks here have favorite bags I can tell you that you don't need to spend a fortune to get good bags. I have purchased 4 bags this year and didn't spend more than $100 on any of them and that includes my winter bag which I have had out on several occasions.

Lots of variables. However, a 20 degree bag should suit your needs most of the time. If it's too hot in the summer, just pull the bag over you and use it as a blanket. If it's chilly, you can zip it up like a mummy.

I camp in spring, summer and fall and have always felt that my 20 degree bag was a good all-around investment.

For the record, my bag is a Marmot Sawtooth Long down bag and my son's is a North Face Blue Kazoo Long down bag. Both are in the neighborhood of 3# or slightly less and they pack small.

A 20 degree will work great. You can always unzip it if you get warm.

I have a Kelty 25 degree bag semi mummy, down bag. It can unzip all the way and be used like a blanket.
I have used it down to 30 degrees and on a Thermarest and never was cold at all. So I think a 20 degree bag will be peachy!
SunCatcher

quote Savage Voyageur: "Two years ago in the first week of June it was in the mid 20's according to the temps in Ely. I wish I had that bag that trip. You will be fine in June, August???"

No wonder I was cold on my trip during that week. I had a bag rated at 20 degrees but I was downright cold, even with a liner and long johns.
Sometime after that experience I read some reviews of the particular Slumberjack model that I had used. One reviewer said that he got so cold that feared for his life when temperatures unexpectedly dropped below zero. He later used the same bag in a 40-something degree situation and was still cold. He said that the last straw occurred when he used the bag in the basement of a friend's heated house and was still cold. He concluded that the 20-degree bag, for that model, was best used in temps of 55 or above.
See if you can find lots of reviews for the bag you are considering. You can probably take the word of members here who have experience with the bag too.

i just bought 2 kelty light trekker 20 degree down bags from target for $110 not each but for both. they were on sale from 89 dollars each. i have only used them once and i used my summer bags inside of the new one since it was projected to be about 5 degrees that night. my son and i were both too warm with that set up. my feeling is that the trekker would be good to about 35 for me. good luck on your search. Mr. Green

quote Jeriatric: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Two years ago in the first week of June it was in the mid 20's according to the temps in Ely. I wish I had that bag that trip. You will be fine in June, August???"

No wonder I was cold on my trip during that week. I had a bag rated at 20 degrees but I was downright cold, even with a liner and long johns.
Sometime after that experience I read some reviews of the particular Slumberjack model that I had used. One reviewer said that he got so cold that feared for his life when temperatures unexpectedly dropped below zero. He later used the same bag in a 40-something degree situation and was still cold. He said that the last straw occurred when he used the bag in the basement of a friend's heated house and was still cold. He concluded that the 20-degree bag, for that model, was best used in temps of 55 or above.
See if you can find lots of reviews for the bag you are considering. You can probably take the word of members here who have experience with the bag too.
"

In my research for the bags I bought this year, Slumberjack consistantly came in as not living up to the degree ratings on their bags. I think they make a nice indoor sleep-over bag for kids but I agree that their other bags should be researched thoroughly prior to purchase.

I have never seen a bag live up to its ratings. To mea 20 degree bag is good to about 35 degrees if dressed lightly for the night. Reminds me of my 160 degree below zero winter pacs. You would freeze your feet solid at -20 degrees if you don't keep moving.

you might want to think about the tent and sleeping mat combo thats going to be used with the bag.i got a Slumberjack poly 20 degree on sale from Campmor as a replacement for my old LL Bean 20/poly bag.the Slumberjack keeps me warm on all the spring and fall trips i've been on.some with cold rainy weather.i sleep in the buff because i don't like to get tangled up in sleeping gear.on a really cold nite i'll put on a poly tee shirt.having said that i think i stay warm because i'm in a small tent,the Atko,so i'm not heating up a big space with the heat from my body that escapes from the bag.the 2 inch Thermarest keeps the cold from coming up from the ground.the couple nites it got down to 32,and i know that because people told me so when i got back home,i put on my polys and pulled a Army poncho liner over the bag and was just fine.it's like all gear,nothing stands on it's own.a good stove will not cook as well with a cheap cook kit,a great canoe is not as nimble as it could be with a heavy clunky paddle,boots without the right soxs can get damp or overheat.

That would be my first choice. Ratings are just guidlines, do not get too wound up on them. TNF and Marmot are close, Western Mountaineering is dead on and maybe somewhat conservative. Do not know about any other brands.

Two years ago our outfitter set us up with Slumberjack 45 degree bags for a trip the end of May. He stated that in a tent the temps are really 15 degrees warmer then outside and as such that would make the bag good to 30 degrees outside.

We FROZE. The tents he gave us did not have covers to zip over the mesh windows so the air moved through at night. I woke up with the worst headache of my life. We had to sleep in fleece base layers top and bottom, wool socks and fleece hats each night.

We now operate with taking our own gear rated 15-20 degrees lower then the temps we think we will encounter. You can always upzip the bag.

We also changed outfitters.

If you are going to use this a long time, buy an 800 fill down bag, you will never regret it. Use like blanket if too warm, good to go. IMO, Marmot, Mountain Hardware, Western Mountaineering, Montbell, are rated correctly, and top shelf choices. The investement in this type of bag is worth it, small and light package, warm when needed. Sucks to be cold at night.

A 20 degree bag should be ideal, and if you think it will be colder you can always add a liner or bring some kind of fleece to sleep in.

Lots of good 20 degree bags to choose from; I have a North Face Aleutian and an REI SynCat, both nice (although they're not down). Campmor seems to have nice prices on their down bags.

I have not gotten a SLumberjack because of one feature I don't like, which seems to be common with that brand: the zipper only goes cdown part of the way. I like it to zip all the way down, as I like the option of sticking my feet out of the bag when i sleep.

I don't winter camp but want a bag to use between June and October for the BW. What are the drawbacks of synthetics vs down? I've been leaning synthetic based on price but was curious of how they compare weight wise and how tightly they pack up.

quote strom2127: "What are the drawbacks of synthetics vs down? I've been leaning synthetic based on price but was curious of how they compare weight wise and how tightly they pack up."

General statements, but basically accurate (at least in my opinion):

BULK:
Comparing synthetic and down bags with the same temp rating, down bags will pack smaller.

WEIGHT:
Comparing synthetic and down bags with the same temp rating, down bags will weigh less.

LONGEVITY:
Comparing synthetic and down bags with the same temp rating, down bags will last longer. It's all about loft, therefore insulating ability. Sythetics will lose their loft far faster than down bags provided both are cared for properly and equally.

COST:
Comparing synthetic and down bags with the same temp rating, down bags will cost more.

I think you see which way I'm trying to steer you. A down sleeping bag will be one of the best investments you can make in camping gear. Not only is it warm, it's lightweight, packs small and you'll still be using it 20 years from now.

People will inevitably bring up the "down sleeping bags won't insulate if they're wet" argument. That's right - they won't, so don't get your bag wet! Protect your sleeping bag in your pack and in your tent and you'll never have an issue. Besides, would you want to sleep in a wet synthetic bag?

Regarding cost, yes, down sleeping bags cost more, but like with everything we buy, you have to personally weigh the quality and value vs. the cost. There's a fine line that we all have to cross when it comes to buying the best gear we can afford. Sometimes it's better to save some money and go for a product that might not be the best one available, but it's still pretty darn good. Synthetic bags fit that category (in my opinion). Down is best. Synthetic is pretty good.

My bottom line is this - if you can buy a down sleeping bag, do it, and you'll never regret it. If you buy sythetic, you'll be very happy with that as well. How you care for either product will determine it's lifespan.

Find two or three sleeping bags that will work for you and shop the stores and online to find the best deal possible. It's probably the best way to find a down bag at a synthetic bag price.

I used a 20 degree SlumberJack bag two years ago. I froze! It was a late May trip. It was a little small for me too. The lining on my old down bag is quite thin so I'm getting a new bag myself. It will be down. Somewhere in the aging process my internal thermostat is failing. So a 20 degree bag works good. Like others mentioned. You don't have to zip it up. Many cold nights up there during the "warm" months of the year... I have a bulky Gander mtn Guide bag for colder conditions. I'm a believer in something warm between me and the cold ground during early and late trips.

Jackfish raises many good points regarding down vs. synthetic bags. I own both types, but rarely use the synthetic bags anymore. I prefer down for many of the reasons Jackfish discusses. In addition to it's weight vs. warmth ratio, longevity, etc. I like the feel of a down bag. For this reason, I also use down comforters on my beds at home. Care of a down bag is important. Never store it in a stuff sack. Better to store by hanging the bag or to store loosely in the larger storage sack most down bags come with.

I own a Marmot Aspen 15 Adventurer bag, which is a down bag that Marmot used to make for Dick's Sporting Goods exclusively. It is most comparable to the Marmot Sawtooth, but was sold at a cost less than the Sawtooth. I got mine on sale at Dick's about four years ago for $80. It's filled with 600 fill goose down, weighs 2 lbs 8 oz, and is rated as a 15 degree bag. I use this bag all summer long here in Minnesota. Good all-around bag. For cold weather camping, I have a Marmot Never Summer 0 degree bag. It's also a 600 fill bag but weighs 4 lbs. I agree with buz, if you can afford an 800 fill bag, buy it. It will last a long time and quickly become your favorite piece of equipment. I have an 800 fill GoLite Parka that is easily my favorite coat to wear when the temps drop.

Thanks you guys for all the input. I am overwhelmed.
Well, I bit the bullet. Ordered a REI Halo +25. Got a waterproof compression bag for it and also since I am going to backpack in Feb a liner. If I'm cold, I will let you all know. But I'll try not to whine!
Thanks again

quote danjb: "Well, I bit the bullet. Ordered a REI Halo +25."

Wow, you went all in, Dan. According to the REI website, that's a $259 sleeping bag, albeit with 750-fill down which definitely bumps the price upward.

You won't regret your purchase. Looks like you picked a dandy.

I agree with just about everyone here. Just think about it this way...Where do you want to spend your money? Where it will do the most good, i.e. where you will use it the most. Which piece of gear do you use the most? Your sleeping bag since you'll be in it every night for hours on end.

I have a 20 degree REI polar pod and took it on a 10-day trip into the BWCA toward the end of July and was fine. I slept with it totally unzipped some nights but I wasn't too uncomfortable and it's been perfect on some of my August trips and certainly for Memorial Day trips in May.

Just to reiterate a point that's already been made.

It's a much easier problem to solve when you have a bag that is TOO warm vs. not warm enough. :)

Danj,

Congrats, you made a wise choice. Just keep it stored loosely, and you have a very long lasting piece of equipment. For Feb. camping, watch the temp forecast, and if much colder than 25, see if you can find another sleeping bag that goes over yours without compressing the down. Also, have a good pad, or maybe two pads. That will be your warmest solution, liner not good for much temp gain, imo. Or plan on using your clothes as insulation in the bag, if they fit without compressing the insulation. Have fun.

buz raises more good points danj. get yourself a good pad for winter camping. i recommend the exped downmat or synmat pads. both are good pads that offer good insulation from the cold ground. there are other good pads too though and many here will have their favs.

quote buz: "Danj,


..., and if much colder than 25, see if you can find another sleeping bag that goes over yours without compressing the down. Also, have a good pad, or maybe two pads. That will be your warmest solution, liner not good for much temp gain, imo. ....."

There's quite a bit of variation between liners though - a wide array- and some of them can add 10 degrees for you while stuffing into a really small sack and not taking up much pack space at all (unlike a second pad).

A big thing to me is if I been out in a canoe all day and the elements have been bad or I got wet and cold I always want a good dry tent and a sleeping bag rated at least 20 colder than when I will be out in. This also depends on a safety factor of if your going to be out when it is -20 below or 70 degrees above. If it is going to be super warm and I know I can get by with a light sleeping bag,but may need another layer,maybe a sweatshirt will do. Summer time I try to cut weight for 1 bag camping and fast speed on the portages.

quote HowardSprague: "

quote buz: "Danj,



..., and if much colder than 25, see if you can find another sleeping bag that goes over yours without compressing the down. Also, have a good pad, or maybe two pads. That will be your warmest solution, liner not good for much temp gain, imo. ....."

There's quite a bit of variation between liners though - a wide array- and some of them can add 10 degrees for you while stuffing into a really small sack and not taking up much pack space at all (unlike a second pad)."

I just leave my liner in my bag, and clean it when I get home. It's a lot easier to take it out and wash it once I am home than to clean the entire bag!

all of my bags are 20 degree bags (but like others here, that number is not necessarily reliable). I can freeze in mid to upper 30 degree weather in a 20 degree bag (depending on the bag). So I bought a silk liner as well. during the summer I use the liner mostly and if I get cold partially cover with the bag. During early spring/late fall, I use both the bag and the liner.

quote serenityseeker: "all of my bags are 20 degree bags (but like others here, that number is not necessarily reliable). I can freeze in mid to upper 30 degree weather in a 20 degree bag (depending on the bag). So I bought a silk liner as well. during the summer I use the liner mostly and if I get cold partially cover with the bag. During early spring/late fall, I use both the bag and the liner. "

Glad I came back to this thread and read sernity's post. I have a newly purchased 20* bag from REI too. (discounted, of course)
I have a fleece liner which I now plan to include for early June trip. Although it doesn't squish down much I'll roll it like a bedroll, place in a garbage bag and strap to outside of canoe pack. A little bulky but lightweight. Gotta be warm to sleep.

quote mjmkjun: "

quote serenityseeker: "all of my bags are 20 degree bags (but like others here, that number is not necessarily reliable). I can freeze in mid to upper 30 degree weather in a 20 degree bag (depending on the bag). So I bought a silk liner as well. during the summer I use the liner mostly and if I get cold partially cover with the bag. During early spring/late fall, I use both the bag and the liner. "

Glad I came back to this thread and read sernity's post. I have a newly purchased 20* bag from REI too. (discounted, of course)
I have a fleece liner which I now plan to include for early June trip. Although it doesn't squish down much I'll roll it like a bedroll, place in a garbage bag and strap to outside of canoe pack. A little bulky but lightweight. Gotta be warm to sleep. "

Just leave it in the bag while you're camping. You'll never notice it when rolling/stuffing your sleeping bag!

quote mc2mens: "buz raises more good points danj. get yourself a good pad for winter camping. i recommend the exped downmat or synmat pads. both are good pads that offer good insulation from the cold ground. there are other good pads too though and many here will have their favs."

I agree totally. Not enough mentioned about the importance of what type of sleeping pad you're going to use. I actually have 4 different sleeping pads that I use in accordance to what type of weather, and what type of camping I'm doing.

ExPed does make really good pads and are very innovative. Thermarest is another top brand to look at, too.

Take some time to read about what type of R factor each pad offers with the selection of your sleeping bag. Anyway, have fun camping!

Done a lot of winter camping as low as -35 degrees F. and as mentioned above especially when the ground is cold I like a good thermarest air mattress-no cheapest;also the hood and drawstrings are very important in how the sleeping bag snug's around you. Also look at the stitching of the bag and see if any insulation exists where it is sewn together.

Amok, thanks for the suggestion but I'd never get the sleep bag back in the stuff sack if I kept the fleece liner inside. Just enough room to stuff the bag and even that's a comical struggle.

danjb, a few words of encouragement. Take heart, eventually you'll be outfitted proper. You just made a very good choice ($) on a sleep sack and all you need now is bit of air & w/insulation zone underneath. Watch for January clearance sales for something with a 'decent' insulation factor. REI's self-inflating foam pads--some with positive reviews--are a possibility. Vendors always want to rid themselves of the last year models as technology creates newer and lighter stuff for upcoming 2011 market.

My fav is ExPed 7 but it's not insulated. It's very comfortable for this side/stomach sleeper. I've used a $12 space blanket as tent ground cloth so it helps keeps cold from seeping through tent floor.

well THAT sucks. I always thought some of those stuff sacks were a little small, I didn't realize they made them THAT small. bummer.

I also cannot use a liner, as I am flippy floppy side sleeper who tried a liner and looked like some bad pretzel experiment gone wrong by morning.

If you never slept with a liner, and bought one, I would suggest a test sleep with it, in case the two of you don't get along, lol. You can return it if new, as I did.