Hey folks,
New member here.
My wife and I are planning a 4-5 day trip next summer and I have a ton of questions.
We are experienced paddlers and would like to do some smallmouth catchin'. Our favorite method is topwater plugging, but we will fish which ever way works.

My main questions is when to go... I'm really not too anxious to deal with peak bug season, but I also want to go when the fishing is acceptable. I have lots of other questions, but I'll get to those later. For now... When should I go?
Thanks!
Tom

Late May or June.

I don't think of myself as a good fisherman but I have never had a Bounday Waters trip where I did not catch all the fish I wanted. I have had trips in June, August and September. August is usually not great. The second or third week of June has always been the best for me, but bring bug gear - I mean face nets etc, not just bug juice because if you're there during the fly hatch, you will regret not being fully protected. If you can go in early September, the fishing is also great and it will be a lot less crowded.

If you can go to Canoecopia in March, (Madison, Wi), you will have access to all the advice you could ever want from people much more knowledgeable than me.

You can catch them topwater all year, but I think early June is a really good time for topwater, welcome to the site Dalton .

quote Basspro69: "You can catch them topwater all year, but I think early June is a really good time for topwater, welcome to the site Dalton ."

Thanks! In a "normal" year, how is the bug situation in early june? Will we need a transfusion along the way?

Actually, it would be nice to go before or after the crowded season. We usually try to plan our vacations for september or before the middle of june.

quote Chicagored: "I don't think of myself as a good fisherman but I have never had a Bounday Waters trip where I did not catch all the fish I wanted. I have had trips in June, August and September. August is usually not great. The second or third week of June has always been the best for me, but bring bug gear - I mean face nets etc, not just bug juice because if you're there during the fly hatch, you will regret not being fully protected. If you can go in early September, the fishing is also great and it will be a lot less crowded.

If you can go to Canoecopia in March, (Madison, Wi), you will have access to all the advice you could ever want from people much more knowledgeable than me."

I originally planned to go the last week of june, but I started to read horror stories of the bugs. I do plan on taking all of the precautions... permethrin, 100% Deet, head nets, thermacell, and DDT if I can find some :-)

Just what ARE the annoying critters? I know skeeters and black flies, but what about ticks? And my least favorite, no-see-ums?

No chance of going to Canoecopia, but thanks for the tip.

I suggest you take weather into consideration. Cold lousy rainy weather is much worse than bugs. I found late June to early July to be much better weather with good fishing. The crowds really show up after the 4th of July. Mosquitoes can be thick in June but July is no better if there is rain. A 40% deet spray keeps the mosquitoes off.

Early June for fishing......for bugs & sunbathing try August.

Is it just my computer screen, or am I getting double postings? Never experienced this problem on other forums. How do I fix it?

quote fishguts: "Early June for fishing......for bugs & sunbathing try August."

Fishguts actually meant "......for an absence of bugs."

quote dalt0n: "Is it just my computer screen, or am I getting double postings? Never experienced this problem on other forums. How do I fix it? "

Don't double-click the submit button, only click it once

quote apugarcia: "

quote dalt0n: "Is it just my computer screen, or am I getting double postings? Never experienced this problem on other forums. How do I fix it? "

Don't double-click the submit button, only click it once"

I am only clicking once. I went to another forum and did a "test thread"... no double posting there.

I sent a couple of questions to the "contact us" area of this forum trying to get help with this issue... I got no reply. What's up with the administrators of this site?

Ahhhhh! I see a bear claw in your future ;-)
Keep Come'n Back!

quote fishguts: "Ahhhhh! I see a bear claw in your future ;-)
Keep Come'n Back! "

I'm new here and have no idea what a bear claw is... some sort of pastry? :-)

Fishguts, do you notice that your last 2 posts showed 1 minute separating them and all double posts from me show the same post time?

What web browser program are you using? Try Firefox.

And don't double-click the submit button ;)

What's also weird is his post count is still listed at zero. (hover the mouse over your trees)

quote apugarcia: "What web browser program are you using? Try Firefox.

And don't double-click the submit button ;)

What's also weird is his post count is still listed at zero. (hover the mouse over your trees)"

I'm not double clicking. I'm using a Mac and Safari with no mouse, just the pad. My computer set-up has never been a problem on the QDMA forum.

This is more frustrating than using a Ronco Pocket Fisherman!

Here is how you double click and build up your posts....watch!

See! three with one blow! ;-)

quote fishguts: "See! two with one blow! ;-)"

I might lie about fishing, but I'm not lying now... I swear to God, I'm not double clicking.

I originally planned to go the last week of june, but I started to read horror stories of the bugs. I do plan on taking all of the precautions... permethrin, 100% Deet, head nets, thermacell, and DDT if I can find some :-)

Just what ARE the annoying critters? I know skeeters and black flies, but what about ticks? And my least favorite, no-see-ums?

No chance of going to Canoecopia, but thanks for the tip."

I have never had a problem with ticks. Black flies can be terrible if you're not prepared.

quote dalt0n: "

quote fishguts: "See! two with one blow! ;-)"

I might lie about fishing, but I'm not lying now... I swear to God, I'm not double clicking."

Must be a mac problem. haha

(now I know how Kanoes got so many posts! lol)

Late May and June or Sept.

I'm curious - do the black flies come earlier in June before the mosquitoes get bad?

quote dalt0n: "

quote Basspro69: "You can catch them topwater all year, but I think early June is a really good time for topwater, welcome to the site Dalton ."

Thanks! In a "normal" year, how is the bug situation in early june? Will we need a transfusion along the way?

Actually, it would be nice to go before or after the crowded season. We usually try to plan our vacations for september or before the middle of june."

Other than late fall, your almost never guaranteed to miss bugs :-)

So is there any benefit to go in early june as opposed to late june?

I have gone the 3rd week in June about 5 times. Sometimes the mosquitoes are just starting to fester, and sometimes we are bug free. I guess you are dependent upon early spring weather.

I've only gone 3 times and two were the last week of may and one was in early september. One of the may trips was litter with skeeters the other 2 trips we lucked out. Last May we did hit one pocket (literally just one swarm) of small black gnats. Not bad for a whole week in though.

quote dalt0n: "So is there any benefit to go in early june as opposed to late june?"

June is the "sweet spot" for insect hatches.

Early June - Black Flies
Late June - Mosquitoes

Pick your poison :)

It's my first trip and I am expecting bugs all of the time, no fish cold weather, wind, no fish, run out of coffee on third day, a tent mate who snores and has a BO problem, no fish and a 200lb canoe...and no fish. Anything better than that will be a a bonus!
These things are not all going to happen and I'm just really excited about getting up there at last. I've been putting it off for years because no-one I know is interested in going. Finally I am doing it and the bugs can kiss my azz (or just bite it)

quote dalt0n: "So is there any benefit to go in early june as opposed to late june?"

If your looking for Smallies they can be super concentrated in small areas when not as much later in the year. It can be the difference between 20 to 50 fish in a day and 75 to 200 fish in a day, it all depends on how late spring is any given year, but early June will almost always outproduce late june.

quote dalt0n: "I originally planned to go the last week of june, but I started to read horror stories of the bugs. I do plan on taking all of the precautions... permethrin, 100% Deet, head nets, thermacell, and DDT if I can find some :-)"

Horror stories? Maybe a bit overstated. Bugs (i.e. mosquitos, black flies, etc.) are going to be there no matter what. The very last thing, and I mean the VERY last thing, I concern myself with when planning a canoe trip is the bugs. If you feel you need headnet, bring it. It weighs next to nothing. (I doubt you'll need it.) Otherwise, if the mosquitos are out, Deep Woods Off works wonders. Use it, keep a cheerful attitude and forge ahead. It's all part of the experience.

There have been years when I haven't even used bug spray on the portages. Then again, there have been years where the black flies were a little nasty at certain spots, usually the thicker wooded areas. It's a 100% tossup. Plan your trip and go. (For the record, most of our trips are in June.)

20-50 fish in a day would be great, and 200 fish would be a dream here in Pa.
I'd be ecstatic if I caught 50 smallmouth in a day, hoping that there were some 3-4 pounders in the bunch!
How much does my choice of routes come into play when trying to walk the fine line between catching fish and swatting bugs? Are there productive fishing areas that are known for more or less bugs?
I guess I should start another thread for route advice.

HEY! NO MORE DOUBLE POSTS! Thanks to whomever fixed yesterday's problem :-)

quote Jackfish: "

quote dalt0n: "I originally planned to go the last week of june, but I started to read horror stories of the bugs. I do plan on taking all of the precautions... permethrin, 100% Deet, head nets, thermacell, and DDT if I can find some :-)"

Horror stories? Maybe a bit overstated. Bugs (i.e. mosquitos, black flies, etc.) are going to be there no matter what. The very last thing, and I mean the VERY last thing, I concern myself with when planning a canoe trip is the bugs. If you feel you need headnet, bring it. It weighs next to nothing. (I doubt you'll need it.) Otherwise, if the mosquitos are out, Deep Woods Off works wonders. Use it, keep a cheerful attitude and forge ahead. It's all part of the experience.

There have been years when I haven't even used bug spray on the portages. Then again, there have been years where the black flies were a little nasty at certain spots, usually the thicker wooded areas. It's a 100% tossup. Plan your trip and go. (For the record, most of our trips are in June.)"

Thanks Jackfish. I'm guess I'll plan for early june. It should be a few degrees cooler, so any extra clothing and head nets will be a little more comfortable. And maybe we should have a bit more solitude?
I guess I'll go to the Trip Planning Forum and get into a more complicated aspect of this trip than bugs.

Thanks for all of the advice folks.

RULE OF THUMB....BE READY FOR ANYTHING! The weather is frickin' unpredictable in the BWCA. I went the 1st week of June 2 years ago and it dropped down to 27 degrees and in the 30s another day. It rained one entire night and then it was warm and sunny the next. Then really windy the day after that to the point we couldn't paddle safely. I am gonna go the last week of June this time and hope for the best but I will be ready for anything.

Dalt0n,

My opinion and experience is that early June is risky. Every year is a roll of the dice as to water temp and therefore fishing quality. To have good topwater action you need the fish to have already "moved up" out of deep winter water depth. Perhaps 25% of the time, this does not happen "early June."

I would suggest at least second week, but preferred 3rd week of June as "best bet" for topwater.

I nearly got "skunked" in Memorial Day and week after in 2005 due to cold water temps. We fished really hard, and could barely catch a few small 14" pike. Had a depth finder and tried every live and artificial lure we could throw.

That was the last time we went "early spring." I now go late June and mostly early Sept.

Old Hoosier

Most dependable time?? Good luck with that!!! Wifey and I prefer mid-latter Sept. Traffic is way down, fishing is superb, leaves are a-changin'. excellent topwater time. Any bite could be "THE BIG ONE"!!

quote Arlo Pankook: "Late May or June."

Good dates to go. Plus, it's not too warm to have a fire everyday. Campfires are awseome!

I'm feeling a bit schizo... Can't make up my mind. After reading some more, I'm thinking about late (or mid?) september. The top water should be picking up again, less bugs, less people, better weather. Am I thinking correctly?

As I said before "Early June for fishing......for no bugs & sunbathing try August."
September Top water will not be like June, if you want the best fishing you may have to deal with bugs.
If you want bug free, you will sacrafice good fishing.
You pays your money, and you takes your choice. ;-)

quote fishguts: "As I said before "Early June for fishing......for no bugs & sunbathing try August."
September Top water will not be like June, if you want the best fishing you may have to deal with bugs.
If you want bug free, you will sacrafice good fishing.
You pays your money, and you takes your choice. ;-)


"

Not doubting your advice, but I've seen some threads that folks said they did well with top water in sept. Maybe it's a matter of perspective?... Could it be that september fishing in BWCA is better than the best of times here in Pa? Basspro69 mentioned 75-200 fish days. If september is only half as productive as june, it would still be great by Pa standards.

Sounds like june can be a crap-shoot with weather.
Sorry to be so anal about this, but I'm trying to make my first (and maybe only?) trip to BW as well planned as I can.

Another question...
What is the weed situation like at different times of the year in BWCA? I've fished in some places in Pa that are very difficult to fish during peak weed season.

Depends on the weed but I always find it difficult. I love fish, fish love weed, so I love weed.

If you find em, fish em!

You pays your money, and you takes your choice. ;-)

quote dalt0n: "Another question...
What is the weed situation like at different times of the year in BWCA? I've fished in some places in Pa that are very difficult to fish during peak weed season."

I’m not quite sure what you mean by a weed season. Many of the lakes in the BW are very deep and most are considered oligotrophic. Any lakes in the area that become covered in weeds will be too shallow to support the fishing you are looking for.

quote inspector13: "

quote dalt0n: "Another question...
What is the weed situation like at different times of the year in BWCA? I've fished in some places in Pa that are very difficult to fish during peak weed season."

I’m not quite sure what you mean by a weed season. Many of the lakes in the BW are very deep and most are considered oligotrophic. Any lakes in the area that become covered in weeds will be too shallow to support the fishing you are looking for.


"

So weeds shouldn't be an issue? Thats good to hear. We have some types of weeds here in Pa that will almost totally choke-out the surface of smaller lakes and ponds by mid june.

My favorite farm pond has great largemouth fishing but becomes weeded-out by early june. I've seen large areas of Presque Isle ( Lake Erie Bay) that get choked with weeds, too.

The Allegheny River has some sort of grass that breaks free in mid summer. When it's floating in the water, EVERY cast has weeds on even weedless rigs.

quote fishguts: "You pays your money, and you takes your choice. ;-)



"

Understood...just trying to figure-out what the right choice is.

Okay, okay, no more "waffling". We are going in later June... screw the bugs. We will drive from Pgh and arrive up there around june june 20th. Spend 5 or 6 days 4 or 5 nights canoeing, camping and hoping to catch lots of smallies on the top.
Any advice on launch, lakes, camps? I'm reading interesting things about Basswood lake.

September and October can be perfection. Few people, fewer bugs, and big bass. If you're able, don't lock into a week until a week before you leave and let the weather forecasts decide when you go.

quote missmolly: "September and October can be perfection. Few people, fewer bugs, and big bass. If you're able, don't lock into a week until a week before you leave and let the weather forecasts decide when you go."

We have to pick and plan vacation now. No option to wait till a week before.
We were considering September for the good reasons that you mentioned, but we really like to catch smallmouth on the surface. Sounds like the bass are moving deeper by september.

Dalt0n,

In my opinion, the weeds are relatively minor issues with respect to fishing in BW or Q. My rationale is this:
1) these fish have rarely seen any significant fishing pressure. They are the primary predator, so they need little to no cover to feel safe.
2) The lakes are usually pretty large compared to farm ponds and rivers. This means open water (bottom) structure, suspended bait fish and shore structure drive feeding patterns.
3) Wind is probably much more of a determination of fish location and feeding pattern than weeds. The water currents from winds are huge pluses. Fish narrow passes where wind is blowing thru plus windy shore lines. These situations turn on fantastic feeding frenzies. While we are tempted to fish "quiet water" you must resist it if you want to catch fish.
4) The colder waters up north are slow to grow dense vegetation in spring and what vegetation that does grow will last at least thru mid Sept to early Oct.

That said, if you cannot find fish on any given day, try some options:
a) try fishing deeper - specially on bluebird sunny days. Most can catch fish from 5-8 feet, but sometimes 12-15 feet is needed.
b) try different lures/baits - colors, sizes, types
c) try weeds - sometimes cold fronts and bright sun will drive the fish into the weeds. Weeds hold heat and stop cold water currents that occur after strong cold fronts with wind.

The good news - I have spent my life time looking for the best fishing available. I am fully convinced that the BW and Q are the best. In other words - the "dumbest fish in the world" live there (and there are LOTS of them!)

Trolling shore with almost any crank bait or spinner will produce fish. Once located, change to topwater and have a ball.

Old Hoosier

quote Old Hoosier: "Dalt0n,


In my opinion, the weeds are relatively minor issues with respect to fishing in BW or Q. My rationale is this:
1) these fish have rarely seen any significant fishing pressure. They are the primary predator, so they need little to no cover to feel safe.
2) The lakes are usually pretty large compared to farm ponds and rivers. This means open water (bottom) structure, suspended bait fish and shore structure drive feeding patterns.
3) Wind is probably much more of a determination of fish location and feeding pattern than weeds. The water currents from winds are huge pluses. Fish narrow passes where wind is blowing thru plus windy shore lines. These situations turn on fantastic feeding frenzies. While we are tempted to fish "quiet water" you must resist it if you want to catch fish.
4) The colder waters up north are slow to grow dense vegetation in spring and what vegetation that does grow will last at least thru mid Sept to early Oct.


That said, if you cannot find fish on any given day, try some options:
a) try fishing deeper - specially on bluebird sunny days. Most can catch fish from 5-8 feet, but sometimes 12-15 feet is needed.
b) try different lures/baits - colors, sizes, types
c) try weeds - sometimes cold fronts and bright sun will drive the fish into the weeds. Weeds hold heat and stop cold water currents that occur after strong cold fronts with wind.


The good news - I have spent my life time looking for the best fishing available. I am fully convinced that the BW and Q are the best. In other words - the "dumbest fish in the world" live there (and there are LOTS of them!)


Trolling shore with almost any crank bait or spinner will produce fish. Once located, change to topwater and have a ball.


Old Hoosier"

Thanks Old Hoosier!
Now all I have to do is figure-out what route to take for a 6 day trip, where to camp, and get my permits. Are these things I need to ask about in another thread in trip planning? I don't want to go against the forum protocol... thought I read something about "off topic" threads.

It looks like Old Hoosier gave you a good explanation of why weeds are no problem in the BW. When you asked I was picturing lakes you are familiar with covered in Eurasian Water Milfoil. (Not in the BW yet)

By June 20th the black flies (buffalo gnats) are dying back. They shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Mosquitoes I can handle because repellents work against them. If you pick your campsites right, they should only be a nuisance after the sun goes down. At that time of year the sun sets at about 9:15p and rises at about 5:00a, so even if you do get chased in the tent by them, it won’t be like you are wasting time.

@ Dalt0n

I've had great topwater in September. You will love September. You can have NIGHTTIME campfires.

However, you can catch bass on the surface just about any time as long as you rise before the Sun and fish through dusk. Still, from time to time pitch a surface lure at the shoreline in the middle of the day. I've seen midday bites where you don't catch a random, odd fish, but lots of fish on the surface.

Typically, if the bugs are bad, the fishing is great. Do your own cost-benefit analysis.

Thanks for all of the advice on when to go. We've made our minds-up... hitting the water around June 21st. Seems like a more dependable top water time, longer daylight hours, and the second week of our vacation will run to July 4th. That'll give us more time and another day to check-out some of the parks on the way home... Isle Royal, Picture Rocks, etc.
Now, WHERE to go... Basswood Lake?

quote dalt0n: "Thanks for all of the advice on when to go. We've made our minds-up... hitting the water around June 21st. Seems like a more dependable top water time, longer daylight hours, and the second week of our vacation will run to July 4th. That'll give us more time and another day to check-out some of the parks on the way home... Isle Royal, Picture Rocks, etc.
Now, WHERE to go... Basswood Lake?"

I'd check out some of the trip reports, pick up a BWCA planning book (I like the Beymer ones--east/west sides, though I haven't seen the newer ones yet. Old ones had maps!), and once you've narrowed it down a little ask questions in the trip planning forum :)

quote Amok: "

quote dalt0n: "Thanks for all of the advice on when to go. We've made our minds-up... hitting the water around June 21st. Seems like a more dependable top water time, longer daylight hours, and the second week of our vacation will run to July 4th. That'll give us more time and another day to check-out some of the parks on the way home... Isle Royal, Picture Rocks, etc.
Now, WHERE to go... Basswood Lake?"

I'd check out some of the trip reports, pick up a BWCA planning book (I like the Beymer ones--east/west sides, though I haven't seen the newer ones yet. Old ones had maps!), and once you've narrowed it down a little ask questions in the trip planning forum :)"

Thanks for the tip. I took your advice and went to the report page. There is A LOT of information there. Kind of hard to sort it all out. Do you have any tips to short-cut the process?
There is SOOO much info on this forum. For a newbie to the BWCA, it's a little overwhelming thinking of where to spend time here.

You could short cut by Google-ing BWCA outfitters and go through their websites. Many will have sample trips and how long they take. Some even have rated these trips for difficulty.

I haven’t fished Basswood, but have heard there are smallmouth bass up by the border and on the river. I have heard that lake is good for Walleye and Northern, but I know things change. I do know there is good smallmouth fishing on Seagull and Saganaga, if you don’t mind seeing some burned areas.

quote dalt0n: "

quote Amok: "

quote dalt0n: "Thanks for all of the advice on when to go. We've made our minds-up... hitting the water around June 21st. Seems like a more dependable top water time, longer daylight hours, and the second week of our vacation will run to July 4th. That'll give us more time and another day to check-out some of the parks on the way home... Isle Royal, Picture Rocks, etc.
Now, WHERE to go... Basswood Lake?"

I'd check out some of the trip reports, pick up a BWCA planning book (I like the Beymer ones--east/west sides, though I haven't seen the newer ones yet. Old ones had maps!), and once you've narrowed it down a little ask questions in the trip planning forum :)"

Thanks for the tip. I took your advice and went to the report page. There is A LOT of information there. Kind of hard to sort it all out. Do you have any tips to short-cut the process?
There is SOOO much info on this forum. For a newbie to the BWCA, it's a little overwhelming thinking of where to spend time here."

It's possible to sort out the trip reports by entry point, but I don't remember how to do it. When I first signed up, I spent a LOT of time in the gear forum. There is a lot of useful info there! Great tips to cut weight and different ways to accomplish the same thing. As a penny-pincher, I am always looking for ways to lighten my load without lightening my wallet :)