I know a lot of us paddle other places than just the boundary waters. For those of you who like to paddle and camp along rivers, what do you do for drinking water? Mentally, I am thinking of rivers like the mississippi, st. croix, minnesota but would definitely like thoughts on others as well. Do you filter? Is that even safe? Or do you carry it with you?

During a 7 day trip down the Missouri R, we carried several days water in large carboys...we knew of a couple of places along the river to replenish, so we didn't need more than 2 days worth at any one time.

12 day trip down the Green River in Utah, we knew of natural springs at several places (info from an outfitter) so we hiked up canyons and cliffs to obtain fresh water.

Get a First-Need filter. This is what you need. Read about then online.

Like Longpaddler we sometimes take water on rivers. The Green is quite silty and we take a couple of days of water between streams.. It can be filtered, however its a multi step process involving alum.

We've been told not to filter the Missouri river water as it is tainted with dissolved chemicals that filters won't remove.

What is right for you depends on the particular river. The Missouri is influenced by the use of agricultural chemicals. Rivers near me that are good for canoe camping are not so influenced and sometimes I carry neither water nor filter.

Tripping on rivers up to Class II without portages allows one to carry a few more luxuries, including fresh water. However, if the water is fairly clear and not silt laden, I'll take a filter along for water needs. I also like the First Need .

quote yellowcanoe:
We've been told not to filter the Missouri river water as it is tainted with dissolved chemicals that filters won't remove.
."

Not true. The First Need filter will remove chemicals and pesticides. Read the 4th bullet point down. First Need

I’ve never even been tempted to filter river water around here. Just carry what you need for the day. When canoeing multiday trips on most rivers in the area you will be staying at campgrounds at night. They will have water.

quote Savage Voyageur: "

quote yellowcanoe:
We've been told not to filter the Missouri river water as it is tainted with dissolved chemicals that filters won't remove.
."

Not true. The First Need filter will remove chemicals and pesticides. Read the 4th bullet point down. First Need "

That is a bit of a conflict with the CDC website that states the filtration pores have to be ten times smaller. We contacted BLM and two local outfitters also who said.. bring potable water. Its possible government is just CYA.

CDC recommendations

The specific chemical family of concern to us is nitrates.

I would have to see documentation showing that phosphates, sulfates, nitrates, VOCs, etc are removed. H2O is a chemical. Are they claiming that is also removed? : )

While Rafting the Grand Canyon on a Private permit, we used Alum to settle silt if the water was cloudy then used an Aqua Partner connected to a car battery. The Aqua partner is 1 part mechanical filter, 1 part carbon, 1 part UV filter. The luxuries of a river trip!

We do a lot of river canoeing and usually just filter the water. The only one we bring water with is the Lower Wisconsin river as it is so turbid with sand it would quickly clog a filter up. We have done the Namekagon in WI and the Big Manistee in MI multiple times with no problems. Plus we get all of our water from small streams and rivers when out backpacking in IL, IA, MN, WI and MI. I really don't worry about run off as you would have to drink IMO quite a bit for it to affect you.

quote Eggs: "While Rafting the Grand Canyon on a Private permit, we used Alum to settle silt if the water was cloudy then used an Aqua Partner connected to a car battery. The Aqua partner is 1 part mechanical filter, 1 part carbon, 1 part UV filter. The luxuries of a river trip!"

Car battery?? OK I get it you were on a raft. Not so much room in a canoe..esp a solo.

We used our MSR Gravity filter after alum and then prefiltering the result. Its kind of tedious.

I would like to AVOID carrying water if I can too.

And not all chemicals are equal.. I remember fondly playing with mercury though.

Early in my career, I did some water filtration work, and I would not be comfortable drinking water from these rivers with any of the recreational commercial filters. Chemicals are not completely removed even with charcoal filters. The suspended particles in these rivers will also likely cause problems with the filters. There will be viruses, bacteria, protozoa, etc in these waters. Despite the First Need filter being a purifier that should inactivate or capture a large percentage of viruses, it will not remove 100% of them.

It's best to bring your own water and re-supply along the way if possible. If not, a multi-prong approach to treatment is recommended. I would never rely on a single device to treat such nasty water.

Also, the efficiency of filters drop dramatically with continued use. These rivers would likely accelerate that drop.

quote yellowcanoe: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "

quote yellowcanoe:
We've been told not to filter the Missouri river water as it is tainted with dissolved chemicals that filters won't remove.
."

Not true. The First Need filter will remove chemicals and pesticides. Read the 4th bullet point down. First Need "

That is a bit of a conflict with the CDC website that states the filtration pores have to be ten times smaller. We contacted BLM and two local outfitters also who said.. bring potable water. Its possible government is just CYA.


CDC recommendations

The specific chemical family of concern to us is nitrates."

I'm not a chemical engineer or a filter expert but I find it strange that First Need would say that it removes chemicals and pesticides and you say in the link you posted by the Gov it does not. They have stated this for years on their web page and filter info.

I haven't used the First Need, but I did look into the data behind it. The original publication (it wouldn't open properly in my browser, but saving it and opening worked) shows very good removal of microorganisms under the test conditions. We're talking 99.9% or better removal (enough to be EPA certified). I'm not a microbiologist, but when we did our testing we looked at more than one of each type of viruses, bacteria, etc. Some were more readily removed than others. In our work, we were interested in long-term, fairly high volume usage. The First Need filters were tested for 400-500 liters, which is enough for a few trips.

I suspect the pre-filter is charcoal-based, which does remove some chemicals. I didn't see the claim for chemical removal on First Need's (general ecology) website. I don't know much about their efficacy, but I would not trust it to remove water from the Mississippi River for *my* family. The amount of toxic chemicals in a river like that would be my main concern. My second concern would be that such a river would interfere with the ability of the filter to work as designed for removing microorganisms. The virus removal/inactivation on such a filter works because the coating on the filter is antimicrobial and kills and/or attracts them. Nasty stuff in the river *may* affect that ability.

From the data and reviews I've read, I should say that the First Need is likely among the best in its class. Still, the Mississippi River is NASTY.

Buyer beware. There is no standard on what can be called a chemical. Cellulose is a chemical that when linked together in a group large enough can be accurately called a cotton fiber. A piece of cheese cloth could filter out that chemical. I see no test data on their website that supports their claim of chemical removal for the First Need filter. They do show data that supports removal of what most people consider "chemicals" for their Seagull Drinking Water Purifier. And as the document that cycle003 provided shows, the original research cited for their First Need tested for removal of klebsiella terrigena (a type of bacteria), poliovirus type 1 and rotavirus SA-11, and for Cryptosporidium parvum oocysts only.

Oh, the Brita-type filters are basically just activated charcoal, or they were a decade or so ago when I was doing this work. They have a lot claims about removing chemicals.

This thread is making me feel sick to my stomach. I've routinely filtered water during my trips on rivers in northern Wisconsin. I know that's not the Mississippi or the Missouri, but I hate to think what I've consumed.

quote Jeemon: "This thread is making me feel sick to my stomach. I've routinely filtered water during my trips on rivers in northern Wisconsin. I know that's not the Mississippi or the Missouri, but I hate to think what I've consumed."

And yet you are still alive and breathing. And in good health??

I think it's really not a big deal as I backpack too and think of all of the others who backpack. We don't bring water in with us when out on the trails we have to filter from rivers and streams all over the country and yet we as backpackers aren't coming down with all sorts of illnesses and diseases.

River trips with no portage, I always bring water. It simplifies my life. Whether or not it's the wise thing really doesn't matter to me.

quote Jeemon: "This thread is making me feel sick to my stomach. I've routinely filtered water during my trips on rivers in northern Wisconsin. I know that's not the Mississippi or the Missouri, but I hate to think what I've consumed."

There is a big difference in these small northern rivers and the large industrially used rivers that also accept (accidentally or not) untreated sewage. It's unbelievable what industry dumps (legally and illegally) into the rivers.

Google sewage in the Mississippi river.

quote cycle003: "

quote Jeemon: "This thread is making me feel sick to my stomach. I've routinely filtered water during my trips on rivers in northern Wisconsin. I know that's not the Mississippi or the Missouri, but I hate to think what I've consumed."

There is a big difference in these small northern rivers and the large industrially used rivers that also accept (accidentally or not) untreated sewage. It's unbelievable what industry dumps (legally and illegally) into the rivers.

Google sewage in the Mississippi river. "

...and agricultural rivers. At one time (not sure if it is true anymore) the Minnesota River was the biggest contributor of point source pollution to the Mississippi River in the state of Minnesota.

There are only two products that I would even consider for filtering water out of larger river systems like the Mississippi or Missouri because of the pollution and chemicals. Neither of which are filters, but rather purifiers.

First one has been mentioned several times in this thread and that's the First Need Water Purifier. It is a hand pump system which can also be used as a gravity system.

The second is the Sawyer Point Zero Two Purifier. Make sure it's not the Sawyer Point One Filter. That is fine for most BWCA use but I wouldn't use it on rivers outside the BWCA.

I own the Sawyer Point Zero Two Purifier and it's a gravity system which takes longer than the pump system. For that reason, I'd probably recommend the First Need Purifier because of it's dual use.

If you're really worried about filters, I suppose you could get one of These . And they're only $995. I also understand they require an hour of pumping to produce 1 liter of pure water. :-)

I've never had trouble drinking from rivers in the Sierra but I've learned, from experiences of friends, not to drink from the seasonal tributaries.

quote Jeriatric: "I've never had trouble drinking from rivers in the Sierra but I've learned, from experiences of friends, not to drink from the seasonal tributaries."

I would think that most rivers in the Sierra mountains weren't much different than the lakes and rivers in the BWCA. Not much agriculture going on up in the mountains so no chemical runoff. Filters and purifiers used in the BWCA will work in the Sierra's.

Like the BWCA I personally won't drink the water there without using my Filter or Purifier.

quote Savage Voyageur: "

quote yellowcanoe: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "

quote yellowcanoe:
We've been told not to filter the Missouri river water as it is tainted with dissolved chemicals that filters won't remove.
."

Not true. The First Need filter will remove chemicals and pesticides. Read the 4th bullet point down. First Need "

That is a bit of a conflict with the CDC website that states the filtration pores have to be ten times smaller. We contacted BLM and two local outfitters also who said.. bring potable water. Its possible government is just CYA.



CDC recommendations


The specific chemical family of concern to us is nitrates."

I'm not a chemical engineer or a filter expert but I find it strange that First Need would say that it removes chemicals and pesticides and you say in the link you posted by the Gov it does not. They have stated this for years on their web page and filter info."

I'd love for you to be right. I am no fan of schlepping 14 gallons of water as a paddling non partner. I am curious if you or anyone has info re pumping speed. My MSR gravity filter has a particle diameter limit of 0.2 microns so that is not going to work for that area. The MSR is a good filter for northwoods use.

The Missouri in Montana is probably better in quality than the Mississippi..(back to the OP)

quote AndySG: "
If you're really worried about filters, I suppose you could get one of These . And they're only $995. I also understand they require an hour of pumping to produce 1 liter of pure water. :-)"

Guess I better go to the casino.. and spend all night pumping!

I did find a you tube video demoing speed

First Need XLE Elite speed test

I also found a video on how has several ways it can be used

Another First Need Demo

quote OldFingers57: "

quote Jeemon: "This thread is making me feel sick to my stomach. I've routinely filtered water during my trips on rivers in northern Wisconsin. I know that's not the Mississippi or the Missouri, but I hate to think what I've consumed."

And yet you are still alive and breathing. And in good health??

I think it's really not a big deal as I backpack too and think of all of the others who backpack. We don't bring water in with us when out on the trails we have to filter from rivers and streams all over the country and yet we as backpackers aren't coming down with all sorts of illnesses and diseases. "

Actually, new research is indicating that some of the chemicals in flowing rivers may have effects on our offspring, even 2 or 3 generations down the line. I believe Scientific American reported this in late 2013. I don't have the cite.

I heard something about this a few years ago. Apparently, environmental effects can alter one's epigenetics that can be passed down for generations. There is so much we don't know. Alarmingly, traces of pharmaceuticals and various organic compounds are ubiquitous in our water supplies.

What to do? I dunno. I mostly drink distilled or reverse osmosis purified water, mostly because I don't like the taste of our tap water. Hopefully, my teeth won't fall out because of my reduced fluoride intake.

quote jcavenagh: "

quote OldFingers57: "

quote Jeemon: "This thread is making me feel sick to my stomach. I've routinely filtered water during my trips on rivers in northern Wisconsin. I know that's not the Mississippi or the Missouri, but I hate to think what I've consumed."

And yet you are still alive and breathing. And in good health??


I think it's really not a big deal as I backpack too and think of all of the others who backpack. We don't bring water in with us when out on the trails we have to filter from rivers and streams all over the country and yet we as backpackers aren't coming down with all sorts of illnesses and diseases. "

Actually, new research is indicating that some of the chemicals in flowing rivers may have effects on our offspring, even 2 or 3 generations down the line. I believe Scientific American reported this in late 2013. I don't have the cite."

But I am way past being able to offer offspring..!

I live in prime farming country here in the midwest and I've seen firsthand how fertilizers and pesticides are applied and then runoff into local rivers. Absolutely no way I'm drinking from them no matter the sophistication of filter.

In fact I used to tube these rivers and no longer do so and take precautions to avoid water contact when canoeing, silly as that may seem.

I appreciate all of the input everyone. In general it sounds like many of us have concerns about drinking water from our rivers, myself included.

I think I will continue to bring my own water along for at least most of my trips down river, especially away from truly wild rivers.

My question is can we really trust the lakes either. Sure up in the BWCA they may be isolated but they can still get stuff in them from air pollution or maybe some runoff from places. Lakes in other areas would be even more prone to getting run off chemicals in them.

I bring my water and replenish along the way. Here in the Ozarks I'll also drink from springs. Typically I will freeze a gallon or two for cooler(s) to do double duty. I know, the filter option works for many, but a few friends have brought them and even on the relatively clean Ozark rivers their fancy filters tend to quit working with some frequency. If I had any other piece of equipment that was as unreliable as the ones I've seen, I'd be pitching it in the trash.

I bring my water in twelve (sometimes sixteen) ounce cans. It's prefiltered but does have some delicious things added to it. It doesn't make very good coffee. For that I just boil some of the river. Tastes great. However, I should say that like Bob I trip on Ozarks streams.

I too have some job-related water purification experience. I can't disagree with the advice or comments being given here. If it were me, I'd bring water if possible. If you must filter/treat/purify, I highly recommend including charcoal and a viral retentive filter. Picking the lesser of two evils; guess I'd go with with toxins as you will have short-term exposure. But nothing can ruin your day faster than nausea/dysentery; not to mention hepatitis. On second thought, just take water.

Here in St Louis we have both the Missouri and Mississippi rivers. I have never had any desire to canoe, boat, swim or fish in either , let alone drink the water. Of course that doesn't count the municipal water supply which comes exclusively from these rivers. I can only hope and assume that purification system is way more effective than anything we can purchase as individuals.

quote ozarkpaddler: "I bring my water and replenish along the way. Here in the Ozarks I'll also drink from springs. Typically I will freeze a gallon or two for cooler(s) to do double duty. I know, the filter option works for many, but a few friends have brought them and even on the relatively clean Ozark rivers their fancy filters tend to quit working with some frequency. If I had any other piece of equipment that was as unreliable as the ones I've seen, I'd be pitching it in the trash."

Just got back from a trip down by Haw Creek. First time to the Ozarks and will definitely be back to hike the Ozark Highland Trail and do some white water, beautiful country down there that I didn't really expect to see.

I noticed that most creeks and rivers had an unusual aqua blue and green tint to them? Do you know why?

I've always been told there is not a fresh body of water left in the us that isn't contaminated with PCBs. Not sure if it's true. Anyone know?

quote OldFingers57: "My question is can we really trust the lakes either. Sure up in the BWCA they may be isolated but they can still get stuff in them from air pollution or maybe some runoff from places. Lakes in other areas would be even more prone to getting run off chemicals in them. "

I was thinking about this as well and had considered posting about it. Some of our lakes are probably just as bad as the rivers, especially ones with surrounding farms and businesses.

I know the DNR has fairly strict fish consumption advisories for metro area lakes, especially for pregnant women and children. We have these restrictions because of chemicals in the lake. Most boundary waters lakes have similar or lesser restrictions too, but 'just' for mercury. Whereas, metro lakes have them for mercury and several other chemicals.

quote Diego: "

quote ozarkpaddler: "I bring my water and replenish along the way. Here in the Ozarks I'll also drink from springs. Typically I will freeze a gallon or two for cooler(s) to do double duty. I know, the filter option works for many, but a few friends have brought them and even on the relatively clean Ozark rivers their fancy filters tend to quit working with some frequency. If I had any other piece of equipment that was as unreliable as the ones I've seen, I'd be pitching it in the trash."

Just got back from a trip down by Haw Creek. First time to the Ozarks and will definitely be back to hike the Ozark Highland Trail and do some white water, beautiful country down there that I didn't really expect to see.


I noticed that most creeks and rivers had an unusual aqua blue and green tint to them? Do you know why?"

Not sure when you were there, but the Buffalo was prime last weekend. We ran Boxley to Kyle's Landing Saturday. It's a sixteen mile run with a portage around a low water bridge and we did it in under four hours. So much fun and such amazing scenery. It's really a treaure. We saw some hikers up on Big Bluff. They looked like squirrels from down on the river.