what do you personally consider "cheating" on a canoe trip?

i realize people have tight schedules but, for me...a tow is cheating.

interrested to hear what you consider a cheat.

a chair? kevlar? a radio? etc......

(lets keep it light hearted) :)

Jan

Depth guage/fish finder OR hiring people to carry your gear on portages?

Not bringing out at least 50% of the starting food weight.

Nothing.

Using a cell or sat phone for anything other than something I would dial 911 for at home

I dont know if cheating is the word but what about people in th egroup who want nothing to do with the planning of the trip? Isnt this a cop out?

Using a portable dvd player to watch a talk show of your choice. Any suggestions?

anything past purist neanderthal?

Using modern sealants on your birch bark canoe; only pine pitch should be used.
Seriously, at my age, I use whatever means possible to enjoy my trip including tows and hiring portage help.
I like my new steri-pen so much that it almost feels like cheating!

Dan

If it isn't breaking the law, or the established rules and regs, it isn't cheating.

Using white gas to start a camp fire is cheating even in rain.

Getting a permit for EP 44 ( a one per day permit) and then getting your partners to get the same permit for the days before and after in order to make sure that no one else will be in there when you go. I'm not sure if it's cheating but it is unethical!

fishnfreak, great call. I never thought of that, but I agree it's unethical.

Kanoes, interesting question but I dislike the word "cheating" (sorry) when it is used to describe personal preferences, as it implies (to me) breaking a rule or law. I prefer "over the top" to fit for me more accurately.

That said, if I am willing to carry it, it does not impose upon others and it's legal - it's personal preference and OK.

The only time I feel cheated is when I have a week-end come and go, and I could have taken a trip and didn't. Boppa

Taking your son with you and the wife on your 30th wedding anniversary trip and trick him into being the portage monkey. Priceless.

Ozarker

Electronics.
Motors.
Maybe I'll add to the list later.
Funny move fishinfreak. Oh BTW why is this a pole?

Burning trash, especially plastic, in the fire pit. If you pack it in you can pack it out.

I must admit; Kanoes struck a nerve with this one. We came in from N. Virginia and don't get to go often. 6^ days and the weather took three of them. Our party always has a sat phone, and concensus called in a tow out from Iron (or lose a day back out nina moose, as we found that with a base camp package was heavy double-portaging and our old bodies cried to not do in one day!) To make a long story short; a phone call got us a tow out in 30 mph wind and whitecaps safely and saved much friction on a timely return to work,family etc. and I'd probably do it again. (I suppose I'd call it cheating or wimping out too , and now, Kanoes, will forever hang head in shame!) The ride down the Loon and RR Tracks was worth it all though! A chance to see some scenery which is faarr away from home and one heeluva boat ride! My kidneys still hurt when I think of it!!!!

I think RoJoYo got it right. Anything else falls into the "different strokes" category. I guess we all have our preconceived notions about what a trip should be, and how things should be done. If I break my own ethic in that regard, then I am cheating myself, but I don't judge others by my own personal standards.

I always take the tow across Lac La Croix, you will never find me trying to paddle across that water! In the several tows I've taken on LLC, only 2-3 of them have had smooth water and even the boats have difficulties! :-)

Cheating to me is coming out early! And yet, twice this year I have had that conviction overturned by others on my trips. Grrr!

i didnt post this for any other reason than my own curiosity. and, upon reading captdans post i have re-thunk things. i now longer consider a tow a cheat. (unless youre in your 20's or 30's with no physical problems...i draw the line there. lol)

so, let me say that the main cheat in my mind is now....
a gps.

:)

Jan

Over the hill
I dont consider a tow cheating but there is nothing wrong with cheating a little ;) I dont blame you I may have done the same but I was thinking about people calling home or work which defeats the purpose of going IMHO

Knothead180
you said it whatever adds to the trip without taking away from someone else go for it

Vnorth
An early out is defanatly cheating I have had that happen several times and it is very frustrating to be a part of that group and be overiden

Wow I cheat a lot. Whenever we enter the southwest end of Quetico I always use a tow. When my wife was 4 month pregnant we brought a Satellite phone--just in case to make the Grandparents happy---but the only time I used the phone was when I caught a 42" Norton I called my brother to rub it in that I now had a bigger one than him.

"hiring people to carry your gear on portages?" You can do this?? I wish I would have known that back before I was poor so Icould have taken advantage of it :)

tim

I have never taken a tow, but wouldn't consider it cheating. It just makes you trip X miles shorter. Think of it like this, you don't portage from home, all the way to the entry point.

I always feel guilty when I take the tow, but poor health and lack of sleep for days before the trips make it a safer trip. I sleep like a moldy stone in Quetico.
Cheating for us is not being able make our entry lake because of my limited physical abilities when the weather fights me.

For those of us that work for a living some things are just time savers. That's the way I view a tow. If you only have a week off and need to spend two days traveling to and from Minnesota, why not take advantage of a tow service to get out there sooner?

I'm firmly in the "if it's legal it's not cheating" camp.

I've done tows before and thought about the heating aspect. Simply put a tow can get you further into the bwca than could get in the same amount of time paddling.

Wouldn't a cheat just be anything done that goes against the rules and regulations of the BWCA permit that you agreed to? Otherwise, I agree 100% with Knothead's comment -- it is all personal preference.

Good thread Kanoes -- always interesting to see what others are thinking.

Tow? Tow? You can get towed.....wow, do I have a lot to learn. This is great!

GPS -- we didn't even take one when we were PMA bushwacking...makes it that much more interesting...

Toilet paper

whew hew i just realized i have three trees now:-)

Better cut some down so you can have some TP.

Leave the trees standing, just climb up about twenty feet wrap your legs around it and slide down:-(

For me (and not necessarily for anyone else, cheating is:)

Using anything other than flint and steel to start a fire.

Using GPS

Floating through a portage (or lining.)

Cutting out of work early on the day before a trip to be able to get to Ely on time.

I am sure that there are more.


TB

I usually use flint and steel to start my fires. They're attached to my Bic Lighter.

good one oldgent!! :)

Running the rapids when you are too lazy to portage.

Hmmm...considering everyone is at different levels of experience when it comes to wilderness camping I would say that whatever "you"want to bring/do is fair game.

I would agree about the burning of garbage though. If you bring it in...bring it out.

My camping group of four has a combined total of 130 years of camping experience. I can tell you that the small collapsable chair stool that I brought (which was the only one) was a huge hit!

In my opinion, using a leech is cheating.

We totally cheated on our "guy's trip" last August.

8 of us put in on Gunflint, and the plan was to have 4 guys stay in for a week and exit on Clearwater, and 4 guys to exit on Hungry Jack/Bearskin after 4 days.

So, since Hungry Jack was on the way, we left a full barrel of food in the car in the parking lot. Plus a box of wine and a Nalgene of Beer from Fitger's that we left in a cooler on ice.

That way we wouldn't have any unneccesary weight on the first 4 days of the trip (especially going up the Stairway Portage.) Worked out perfectly...and I don't think I've ever done anything so decadent as sipping cold brew (with orange slices) on the 5th day of a BWCA trip.

Outstanding. And totally cheating.

Did you know that exiting the BWCA to get food from a car is not only cheating, but it's really against the rules?

Yeah I figured so.

Part of me didn't feel too good about it.

But I got over it.

Until now. Thanks.

In my humble OPINION..."There are no rules"...there is no right way to go....JUST GO!!! (Oh...and obey the law)

I would consider the use of any equipment and supplies that weren't built by you personally, or your tribe using only natural materials without the aid of modern equipment would be cheating. Additionally, bringing in any food that you, or your tribe didn't either kill, grow, or find in the wild would be cheating as well.

Littering, cutting or scarring live trees, polluting the water in any way or basecamping with all grown able bodied adults.

Since my first post on this thread I have now come to think that nothing (legal) is cheating as long as it fits your needs and situation in order to enhance your trip. Just because I don't have or use a fish finder/depth gauge doesn't make it wrong for others.

No, never hired anyone to help portage but have thought about!

I don't think getting a tow is cheating. When I have a limited amount of vacation time. I dont' want to spend it getting there. I want to be there as quick as I can and then travel. The last thing I would want would to show up for a 3 day weekend and spend 3 hours the first day getting passed by power boats.

I have had tows to PP, and to the end of Clearwater.

If it is stated as "OK" by the Minnesota DNR , Forest Service, BWCA permit or whatever and you follow the written Law your'e fine.....

....I mean...

Get Real...cheating????

If you want to pack it go for it!!!!! It's not cheating, but maybe it's a personal thing of what's right for each person or what he or she feels comfortable with.

Woodpecker

"Littering, cutting or scarring live trees, polluting the water in any way or basecamping with all grown able bodied adults."

Come on,,, how is base camping cheating? Getting a little bit ridiculous don't you think?

psukontaraks wrote "or basecamping with all grown able bodied adults". I don't know if you were attempting humor or not but I take exception to your statement. If you like to pack, paddle and portage every day, I say more power to you. I can understand the desire for new lakes, less people and seeing new territory.

But base camping is what many enjoy while in BWCA. I have taken many new BWCA campers (having been once in high school with church or scouts) with me while base camping and almost all have commented that they never knew that the BWCA could be enjoyed. Their first and only trip wasn't enjoyable for them because of the constant packing, portaging & paddling.

I'm fairly sure I could keep up with most on this board when it comes to paddling and portaging, I just choose not to. I'm sure my 2-3 trips a year (mostly base camping), for the last 25 years, are as meaningful for me as your trips are for you.

I guess I'm speaking for those of us who enjoy both base camping and the BWCA.

canoepaddle

"Photoshopping" your fish picture!!

I agree Photoshopping your fish pictures could be considered "cheating" It's kinda like defacing.....it's cheating

???But I don't know about basecamping???

Anything with your gear or techniques for your "survival" that is legal is fair.....If you as an individual or a group choose to use or do it...

Just remember the word-- LEGAL

Woodpecker

In 2006 I did two firsts. I did a solo basecamp. OK, it wasn't as strenuous as the paddle-portage enduros I do with my son, but it was nice to explore a lake and get to know it a little better. I did multiple day trips and actually fished when I felt like it.

I agree with Trygve and Woodpecker...I guess there really is no cheating as far as gear is concerned. We're up there to have a good time and enjoy the experience, whatever makes you comfortable. If you want to use a GPS or camp chair then so be it. Hell some may say that paddling a kevlar boat is cheating. It's totally up to the individual. As long as it's legal. I guess I don't understand the basecamping comment. ?? But photoshopping fish pics...well that can't be tolerated!

I base camp and I don't consider that cheating. If I like to fish that lake why would it be cheating ? As we get older and have physical problems it may be the only way to enjoy the BWCA. Sure , I would like to see other places there but I also know my limitations. And certainly I don't consider the tow to be cheating. If it's legal it's OK in my book. Izzy

Yeah, I was joking. about the basecamping part. "attempting humor?" I thought it was fairly successful.

"im Jan, and im a basecamper" ("hi Jan")

Cheating is banging your buddy's wife while he is on a canoe trip.

There is no cheating up there. As long as you do whatever you can to plan and enjoy a trip and return with your mind at rest...

Exception:
Anyone that spends over $200 on a tent is cheating.

Good call OBERGUT.. an individual using a tent purchased at a store for over $200 is definitely a cheater.

I always get a tow across Big Sag to Hook island. Q trips really dont start until you see the Canadian Rangers anyway. Still dont see the connection between basecamping and cheating, somtimes they are just called layover days.
CB

Whatever happens in the BWCA stays in the BWCA.

If its legal, whatever floats your boat or fits in your pack. I did see a ad for a guided trip from a large Ely outfitter where they portaged every thing out and set up camp ahead of time. The ad implied that they would secure the campsite ahead of time to ensure it was available. Not sure if legal but I would define as cheating.

On Big Lake, off the Echo Trail, there is a resort that has two island campsites all set up and supplied but I haven't heard of it in the BWCA. It's legal on Big Lake because it's not in the BWCA

I've heard of people "reserving" a popular campsite with an old piece of crap tent - presumably to hold the site for a return trip or for another group entering later. It seems to mostly be an issue on more easily accessed lakes. Major cheating.

OK, I have to admit that once on Horse I was camped on the west shore. Coming back from fishing I saw the party at the island camp leaving so I went over and pitched my tarp, then went back to west shore, broke camp and set up on the island. I just didn't want to break camp and have somebody beat me to the island and then have my west shore camp gone when I got back. I needn't have worried. I think I had the whole lake to myself for the next two days.

Cheating is up to the individual, as long as it fits in the rules and regulations set for the BWCA. Another thought is that is doesn't take away from the experience of others, I know I would not want to hear a radio or cell phone ringing across a lake on a calm evening. How far someone wants to challenge themselves' is up to them.

Well, here you go. The original question is "what do you personally consider cheating". You can do this if you want but I would be ashamed.

Paying someone to carry my canoe or backpack, start my fire, cook my food or bait my hook and clean my fish.

You wouldn't be cheating anyone but yourself.

draging my Royalex canoe over the rocks--they were sort of slimey-
instead of making a real carry...same crime at the Singing Brook
portage in the Q where i was to lazy on day 13 of 14 to make the
pick-up and carry and pulled the empty canoe over on the skid pad.

Exactly Pete, could not agree with you more.

thanks to all so far....its been interesting. Jan

Going on a trip with “kanoes” because he will already have all the answers.

Just kidding, nice thread.

ive broken a few so far....evidentally.

basecamping.

chairs.

equipment not built by me.

:)

instant coffee? I could not look at myself in the mirror!

once

again

I

am

only

joking

no offense maxwell house