BWCA Avoiding deep scrapes on a canoe Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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jenrobsdad
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02/03/2009 02:39AM  
I took a group up two years ago and we rented two kevlar canoes from Piragis and I paddled my Old Town. When we got back the guys at Piragis were shocked at the deep scratches in the canoes. Once again I am renting a Kevlar from Piragis (yes they are renting to us again) What advice do I give to the paddlers using that canoe? Sometimes when the water level is down it seems almost impossible to avoid the rocks at the portages. I have always used my Old Town in the past and you can do anything to it and it will survive.
 
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ultralight
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02/03/2009 04:10AM  
The short answer is don't hit the rocks. Usually, we take the spare paddle and use it as a deflector when paddling rocky areas. One key is to slow down. Even 3 mph is fast when you run into a fixed object. If you've ever walked into a tree at night, you know what I mean. Wet footing is, of course, mandatory with kevlar if you want it to last.
Finally, how you treat it on land is also critical to avoiding damage. I leave mine along side the portage path so it's not only out of everyone's way, but also is usually less rocky. A few cosmetic blemishes are unavoidable, but many times the nasty ones can be avoided with a little extra care.
 
thlipsis29
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02/03/2009 06:39AM  
Polarized sunglasses. They won't guarantee that you'll see every rock under the surface of the water, but they help significantly. Otherwise, follow ultralight's suggestions.
 
02/03/2009 06:50AM  

I am always surprised at the number of people who walk around in their canoe when it is grounded on the shore or even pulled up for the day in camp. Deep scratches or gouges can be made by hitting submerged rocks while in transit, but most severe damage comes from dragging a loaded boat or waling in a boat while it is resting on rocks. With my Kevlar canoe, we step into shin deep water at portages and step out if we get in shallows or hit a rock.

 
Trygve
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02/03/2009 08:05AM  
Always come up to a portage sideways, parallel to shore. Then hop out into the water or onto rocks if they are handy.

The only time there ever should be weight in your canoe is when it's in the water, do all your loading and unloading while the canoe is in at least 12 inches of water. Again, parallel to shore.

Always pick up a kevlar canoe to move it, don't ever drag it.

 
02/03/2009 08:23AM  
I think Wine has it right. More scratches from pulling loaded boat up or out at campsites happen, then hitting stuff when actually in the water. Wet foot also is mandatory, but not always easy to do. Again, great advise is to come in sideways.
 
Arkansas Man
Moderator
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02/03/2009 08:39AM  
Amber Polarized glasses are best I have found, along with the other things mentioned here to reduce scratches.

Bruce
 
HighPlainsDrifter
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02/03/2009 10:01AM  

A lot of good advice has been given, and some an obvious "no brainer". But, there are rocks that come out of nowhere and there are shallows. You can do your best to avoid leaving a trail of epoxy (or vinyl or aluminum, or whatever), but your best will never be good enough.

I wear polarized glasses, but I still hit rocks (maybe that is a consequence of where I travel). Polarized glasses don't do much when the water is rough or cloudy. What you need then is a good side looking sonar...... Approaches to portages are the killers, and "wet footing" is not always an option (if you want to stay dry above the waist).
 
02/03/2009 11:33AM  
Go aluminum.
 
Bromel
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02/03/2009 11:39AM  
The key to preserving your canoe (or a rented one) is to limit the times that it comes into contact with rocks. This is easily done by keeping your canoe in open water when you are paddling near shore, getting out of the canoe, and even lifting the canoe up onto your shoulders to portage. Just do everything to keep the canoe from touching rocks. This means that you have to get your feet wet!!!

TIPS
1. Approach the shoreline slowly and don't ram the rocks
2. While the canoe is still floating in open water, step out into the shallow water or onto a rock
3. Unload the canoe while it is still floating -- don't drag it up onto the shore
4. Lift the canoe onto your shoulders while it is still floating
5. When you get to the end of the portage, walk into the water and lower the front end of the canoe down onto the water as you flip it off your shoulders
6. Always load the canoe when it is floating in the water -- don't drop heavy packs into the canoe with sharp rocks underneath

The key is to unload and load your canoe when it is floating in the water. You have to accept it that your feet will get wet. If you want to preserve your canoe, this is how it must be.
 
02/03/2009 12:17PM  
I do it the way Trygve suggests. That's the best way I've found.
 
Trygve
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02/03/2009 12:32PM  
Do you hear an echo, MP?
 
02/03/2009 12:49PM  
I do it the way Trygve suggests. That's the best way I've found.

"I am haunted by mother"-Norman Bates
 
Honus
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02/03/2009 01:02PM  
*%@$# happens! The reason why we rent canoes.
I have to believe that the outfitter expects a little wear n tear?
 
knothead180
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02/03/2009 01:25PM  
I hesitate to mention this, because there is a lot of canoe brand loyalty out there, but if damaging the bottom of a kevlar canoe hull is a major concern for you, then consider renting a Souris River rather than a Wenonah or Bell. The SR flexible rib system really is very forgiving IMO.
 
02/03/2009 02:40PM  
Use royalex and do not worry about it!! Beach it, no problem; dry feet.
 
02/03/2009 03:05PM  
Royalex is the way to go, but heavier than kevlar. I don't know if it's heavier than aluminum though. Paddling down here on our rocky and gravel-bottomed Ozark streams has taught me that my Royalex holds up much better and looks nicer after 5 years than my fiberglass and friend's aluminum.
 
02/03/2009 04:11PM  
Bottom line is that it all comes down to paying attention. my favorite trick is watching the ripples on the water's surface when approacking shore. The water directly over a shallow rock will look significantly different than the water around it usually. Obviously this technique is useless in dead calm water. But it will happen from time to time, that is life.
Bring a tube of 5 minute clear epoxy and some wax paper. If you do scrape bad, you can have it fixed in 15 minutes flat and the outfitter prolly wont even notice if you do a good job. Might just save you a hundred bucks.
 
quetico152
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02/03/2009 04:39PM  
heres a simple way to handle this:

the bow paddler's first responsibility is to paddle. their second responsibility is to be wearing good polarized sunglasses and constantly on watch for rocks under the surface, and communicate their position well to the stern paddler. and on portages, you can wet foot, and just be gentle on the canoe. its quite easy to do things this way, and doesnt have any huge cons at all imo
 
HighPlainsDrifter
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02/03/2009 06:34PM  

bumabu

Unfamiliar ground for me. What kind of epoxy are you using. I assume some 2-part deal. Could you elaborate on the procedure, sort of step by step? Is it a fix that you would use on your own canoe?

I put some nasty looking "things" in my blackgold last year (yes rocks did it, damn rocks). The dings are probably just superficial, but it would be nice to have some of the "eye candy" regain it's smooth look.

I am not sure that I like the idea of putting a coat of varnish on the kev...... something wrong about that.

 
gbusk
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02/03/2009 06:37PM  
 
gbusk
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02/03/2009 06:37PM  
 
02/03/2009 07:18PM  
just wet foot it and you will mostly be fine. I can't even count the number of times I've watched groups ram kevlar canoes onto the shore, or load when not floating and drag the loaded canoe out.
 
02/03/2009 08:28PM  
That's partly why I bought a used kevlar canoe from an Outfitter. Great price. No stress. Let someone else put the first thousand scratches in it.
 
Savage Voyageur
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02/03/2009 09:55PM  
Plan to get your feet wet. My brother and I use keens on our feet just for this reason. They have a rubber toe bumper and drain good. the person in the bow has to be ready to jump out to protect the bottom. I know the bottom can be reconditioned, but it does not fill in the deep groves very good. Go slow through the rock gardens. The bow paddler can see the rocks first so he has to be looking for rocks.
 
02/03/2009 11:49PM  
HPD, actually I would prolly recommend 30 minute epoxy for more working time if you dont have experience with it, whats 25 more minutes? You mix the two parts, and then pour or spoon it into the gouge (which should be facing upwards). The epoxy will self level for the most part. put a piece of wax paper over it and feather it out with gentle pressure. When it dries the wax paper zips right off. That is what I did in the picture above and it came out looking real nice and was very smooth.
 
jenrobsdad
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02/04/2009 02:10AM  
This year I will ask Piragis if they have something else other than kevlar or at least rent one that has seen better days. I know it took me years to get "wet feet" but when you have kids that have never been up there, it's hard to get them to avoid rocks. Thanks for all the advice. Even though my tub weighs 80 pounds I know I can beat it up.
 
02/08/2009 09:34AM  
I hate scratches so I generally get out of the canoe about 50 yards out and swim in pulling the canoe with it's painter. Early in the spring you have to wear a wet suit however.
 
02/08/2009 09:36AM  
Just kidding!!!
 
Cedarboy
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02/08/2009 10:23AM  
Ditto Trygve, best advice is to wetfoot your boat,no matter WHAT material. "You dont run into the back of your garage to stop your car so why ram into shore to stop your canoe?" Best quote I ever heard. Also worst sound to hear in thw BW is an aluminum canoe being DRAGGED no shore from across the lake.
CB
 
02/08/2009 02:20PM  
I'll jump on the wet foot bandwagon here too. Someone mentioned unloading the canoe while its floating. Very important. The hull is designed to hold weight in the water where it is supported evenly. Dragging it on shore, or over beaver dams for that matter, places all sorts of uneven stress on the hull.

Hitting a rock while the canoe is otherwise floating won't do nearly the same level of damage as pulling it out of the water before its empty. I typically flip mine straight out of the water.

I will say I am more careful with kevlar that Royalex. Royalex has more give and is harder to do serious damage to.

I am also a Souris River owners and I they do shrug of the occasional run in with a rock very well. I chose it for just that reason. My wife is often in the bow and doesn't do so well spotting rocks.
 
Seamster
member (41)member
  
02/08/2009 02:37PM  
I will be honest here. I crash into shore with my kevlar and drag it up on shore. Not too rough but I dont baby it. I would love to see someone tell my wife to wet foot into leech infested waters. you can beach your kevlar for years and years and structurally it will be no worse off, that is some durable stuff. I would hate to break an ankle under water for sake of saving a blemish on the underside of my boat.
 
02/08/2009 10:04PM  
I think you're more likely to break an ankle trying to keep your feet dry than you are just stepping out of the canoe and into the water.
 
Seamster
member (41)member
  
02/09/2009 12:56AM  
I agree to disagree. I step wherever it is most sure footing, wet or dry. I didn't mean to give the impression that I leap for rocks to stay dry. The point I am making is this: before i will step onto slimy subsurface rocks, I will allow my boat to make contact with solid surfaces. Safety trumps dry foot which trumps boat care, always. If i can achieve all, then whoopie for me, but there is never a question when there is a choice to make.

I dont like to get hurt, I dont like wet feet, and i dont mind a dinged/scratched up front end.
 
Cedarboy
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02/09/2009 01:32AM  
Seamster
I have to agree 100% that "safety trumps dry foot which trumps boat care,always" that is why we learned to wet foot in scouts growing up. Your canoe is your only way in and out of the wilderness. For safety sake we wet foot to make sure we have that gear in good shape so the safety of the trip is not compromised. It does not make sense to put unnecessary wear and tear on your boat when that can be avoided. Of course accidents will and do happen but most of this is just plain common sense. We wet foot NOT because we don't want our boats to get scratched, far from it those are memory marks but because we want to get back home in a safe and fun manner to do it again sometime. So again I agree safety first.
CB
 
MrWalleye
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02/09/2009 04:04PM  
My theory is to avoid everything that you reasonably can and everything else is part of the game. I don't wet foot I wear knee high wadding boots and step out when necessary or we beach it. We take out both packs and carry the rest in the canoe onto land. Aluminum definately has its drawbacks i.e the weight but it takes a beating.
 
Vagabond
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02/13/2009 11:21AM  
Wetfoot landings and do what you can, but you'll never avoid them all. If you hit something with a full load and a head of steam, you'll get one. Last year I was extra careful with a new canoe, but still put in a nice gouge on a sharp rock lurking in the middle of the lake. Maybe we rode lower with three people in the boat. Maybe it was disguised by the chop on the water, but we never saw it coming. Couldn't even see it when we looked back to see what we hit. The shore was 75 yards in any direction. All part of the game. The only thing that would have minimized the impact would have been a lighter load.
 
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