Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Bell Composites
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3Ball |
I am close to Zimmerman. Maybe I'll get a chance to stop in and ask in person. |
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RAFA Ranger |
quote thinblueline: "I'm hoping you folks that have experience with the Northwind can answer this question, as I have never personally seen a Northwind in person. I see it has a kneeling thwart for solo use, so I was wondering how this canoe handles solo. I was also wondering, if a third seat was added in place of the kneeling thwart on the 17'6" Northwind, would it make the area in front of that third seat too narrow for a portage pack for those times when there are two of us in the canoe and the third seat is not used? Thanks in advance." I bought a used northwind with a kneeling thwart. I hate kneeling so last year I replaced the kneeling thwart with a 3rd seat. There is 24" between the center thwart and the 3rd seat, should be plenty for a most packs. There is also 20" inches between the middle and rear seat. I have paddled it solo, unloaded, from the rear seat, the kneeling thwart, and a bit from the 3rd seat. It's a big canoe to be paddling alone and unloaded in the wind. But it works out pretty well if you like to spend more time on the water than your tripping partners. IIRC there are a couple trip reports from Unclemoose who took a Northwind solo through Quetico. |
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3Ball |
Another option would to be to use the Spring Creek Outfitters removable third seat. It comes out quickly without tools and you would not compromise your capacity when using as a tandem tripper. |
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CharlieWilson |
NorthWind is 36" wide at max beam, a few inches aft of center, maybe 33.5" wide at the third thwart station where kneeling thwarts are installed and where a third seat would be placed. Of the some 120 solo canoes made in the last two decades, only four are that wide, and three of those are billed as combi boats. Worse, NorthWind is wider forward of the solo paddling station so the catch is compromised; the stroke almost forced into including sweeping components. The removal of the unique tumblehome does not improve this situation. Lastly, the bow is maybe ten feet forward of the paddling station and will not respond to bow draws. In sum, NorthWind is a fine tandem that can be soloed, but not well or happily. |
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thinblueline |
quote CharlieWilson: "Basic Math: Yeah, I kind of figured as much, and I guess I never really had the idea of taking a solo trip with it for the reasons you cited. I was kind of thinking of those times when I am tandem tripping, with either my wife or one of my sons, and they don't want to do the early morning fishing thing, or don't want to go with me on a firewood run or something. I kind of thought it would be nice to have the third seat then for a short outing by myself, knowing that I probably wouldn't stray too far from camp in case the lake kicked up. I just simply can't kneel, since I had so much cartilege removed from one knee and probably have another knee surgery coming somewhere in my future. I guess in those situations it would be just as easy to bring along a sling seat that I can throw in the middle, and keep the width of my rear cargo area. |
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SunCatcher |
Might email PineKnot though as he is a experienced NorthWind solo paddler. SunCatcher |
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wetcanoedog |
6 years of BW/Q use.this is the Pathfinder they made as a one off for the 100th birthday of the Chestnut Canoe Co. otherwise a perfect boat for a old guy to carry at 37 pounds. |
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thinblueline |
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CharlieWilson |
Addressing carbon composition, no canoe builder, except, maybe, Wenonah, is in a position to dictate the chemical composition of their carbon purchases. The mil spec boron-carbon used in fly rod blanks and F35s is not for boatbuilders. CEW |
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winner |
quote ozarkpaddler: "quote Tebpac: "Good to hear that he is building canoes again. Wanted a Rockstar in the worst way. Will have to see what the newer 16'6" solo will be like..." That's great work, OP...can you find me one in Royalex? Winner |
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jhb8426 |
quote CharlieWilson: In sum, NorthWind is a fine tandem that can be soloed, but not well or happily." I will attest to that. |
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amhacker22 |
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Cedarboy |
CB |
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yellowcanoe |
Nevertheless that feature was most appreciated by tandem teams doing extreme canoe heel and did not keep all broadside waves from slopping in Ted is using a one piece mold. Its impossible to put shouldered tumblehome in a composite using a one piece mold. |
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kanoes |
quote McVacek: "Just bought our Bell Composite this weekend at the Expo and picking it up this weekend. Very excited!!! :)" we expect photos. |
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luft |
quote Moonman: "I was looking at Northwinds years ago when contemplating a new tripping Tandem. One question - was the 12.5" center depth the same on the previous Nothwinds? Don't seem to recall it as 12.5". Just seems a tad shallow for a tripping boat with that beam and length. Very pretty boat though! Older Bell Northwind Specs |
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AndySG |
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amhacker22 |
quote AndySG: "I believe I see tumblehome on Ted's new Magic ." He had one at the MWM Expo. They look great. Nice to have them back! |
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SunCatcher |
quote AndySG: "I believe I see tumblehome on Ted's new Magic ." The MAGIC will have tumblehome he told me. SunCatcher |
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Savage Voyageur |
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butthead |
butthead |
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Moonman |
Moonman. |
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yellowcanoe |
Tumblehome is usually a good thing, but absence of is one of those things that can set a new design apart. Yost and Wilson could elaborate..perhaps not on the specifics of this case but in terms of when that has happened in canoe making history. Wishing Ted a good vigorous resurgence! |
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KevinL |
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Frenchy19 |
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puckster |
The aluminum trim is the same as the old Bell Canoe Works canoes. Aluminum trim includes the two piece rail system, a wood yoke, aluminum thwarts, and ash cane seats riveted through the side walls. Puckster |
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Ragged |
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SunCatcher |
SunCatcher |
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Moonman |
I see the depth used to be 14" - sounds like what I remembered and fairly standard for tripping boats that size. Wonder why its reduced on the new models? Seems a poor way to get around boat rights if that was the issue. Moonman |
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woodcrate |
Jerry |
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McVacek |
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3Ball |
quote Ragged: "Does anyone know how the new Black Light stacks up against the old Black Gold? Same thing? I saw a Black Light hanging in Midwest and it looked sort of green but that could have been the lights shinning through, hard to tell. " Does anyone know that answer to this? |
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mooseplums |
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AndySG |
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ducks |
Find a new owner for that beautiful Northstar yet? |
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SunCatcher |
@ AndySG I will review it when it goes in the water. @ ducks not yet on the NorthStar, but not a matter of life and death, nothing wrong with adding to the fleet :) SunCatcher |
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Trix |
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amhacker22 |
Nice. |
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SunCatcher |
A composite canoe with tumblehome requires a two piece mold from end to end that meets in the middle and is bolted. Then you unbolt it, and pop the mold off each end. Otherwise you could not get the canoe out of the mold. The New NorthWoods and NorthWinds will NOT have tumblehome, as it would require a two piece mold, and Ted is using a one piece mold for those two models. Same "ship" except for the tumblehome as far as I can tell. Not sure but I am thinking when the magics go back into production, He will change very little if anything from the original design. SunCatcher |
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HansSolo |
Thanks for the post, update, and video review of Bell canoes SunCatcher. It's good to hear that Ted Bell will be producing canoes again, albeit limited. I always thought it was a shame that ORC terminated production of Bell canoes a couple of years ago. Bell had too many great hull designs to have the molds sitting in some warehouse collecting dust. I always regretted not adding a Bell "Magic" to my livery, but now it seems I may have an opportunity once again. Hopefully, Ted won't modify the original "Magic" hull design as he did with the "Northwind 17". I can understand why he would eliminate the "shouldered tumblehome" design on the "Northwind 17". (I'm assuming this was done to simplify production by using a one-piece mold?) Additionally, I don't think the "shouldered tumblehome" in the tandem designs is as critical as it is in the solo canoes, especially the "Magic". I'm no canoe designer, but I know what to look for and what I like in certain canoe and kayak designs. Given the solo "nature" of the "Magic", especially a solo canoe that many deem as a "Sit n' Switch" design, it would diminish the design advantage of that hull design if the "tumblehome" was eliminated by use of a once-piece mold in my opinion. Hopefully Ted will produce the "Magic" as it was before. I look forward to seeing the new Bell "Magics" and other Bell canoes being available once again. I'm also looking forward to the opinion of "yellowcanoe" on this subject. Hans |
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PortageKeeper |
quote SunCatcher: " ..... Not sure but I am thinking when the magics go back into production, He will change very little if anything from the original design. That'd be the best news for me, as I have a new 'old style' Northwind, but my Magic will need to be replaced someday. I'll just have to wear dark glasses while paddling it. |
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SunCatcher |
Enjoy the pics and watch the youtube to learn more. Weight 42 lbs width at yoke 36" Outside to Outside length 17.5 ft. depth 12.5" SunCatcher NorthWind with NO tumblehome RockStar showing tumblehome (Red/Yellow Tweed on Outside Kevlar) Youtube Review of New Bell Composites NorthWind Canoe |
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AdamXChicago |
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fitgers1 |
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SunCatcher |
It also helps on Secondary Stability with that shoulder there. So I really like it in my Wildfire Royalex and My RockStar Kevlar. I see -0- need for it in the Northwind, other than I feel it makes for a Purdier Vessel. SunCatcher |
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HansSolo |
quote SunCatcher: "I am NO EXPERT on solo canoe's, but the tumblehome create's a narrower area around the "paddling station" (more than likely wrong terminology). It gets the paddler closer to the side of the canoe. I couldn't agree with you more "SunCatcher". Hans Solo |
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yellowcanoe |
quote SunCatcher: "I am NO EXPERT on solo canoe's, but the tumblehome create's a narrower area around the "paddling station" (more than likely wrong terminology). It gets the paddler closer to the side of the canoe. Right terminology! It can come in handy for tandem boats that tend to be heeled way over. Which is seldom done by trippers. Its been a good day in the shop. |
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puckster |
Ted is very much back in the canoe-building business! For now, he is in a limited production mode. In fact, his production schedule is currently booked out through April. The good news is you can get your orders in now! Currently four dealers offer his canoes: Piragis in Ely Carl's Paddlin' near Madison Kansas City Paddler Raquette River Outfitters in New York Ted is building two boats at this time: the Northwind17 and the Northwind18. (The boats are actually 17’6” and 18’9”, respectively.) Bell Composites will also be offering a 16’6” solo canoe this spring, modeled after the old Bell Magic. He’s also planning a website. So stay tuned! Puckster |
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bassnut |
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HansSolo |
Awesome! Thanks for the update "puckster". |
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Moonman |
quote SunCatcher: "@moonman It could be 14", but measureing with tape off the inside of the canoe, on top of the floatation it is about 13. You know I was kind of thinking that but didn't want to say anything sorta questioning your measurement, although I guess it would probably be the first time I guy said it was an inch or so less than it actually was :) A fine boat nonetheless and one that will be great for wilderness tripping. Moonman. |
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PompousPilot1 |
Hopefully this time I won't get left out in the cold. |
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CharlieWilson |
This is a huge issue in solos, where the paddler is near the widest part of the boat, important in the bow, where smaller paddlers are seated farther back from the stem, and often insignificant in stern, with larger paddlers seated pretty close to the stem. So it goes, nice that Ted is back in the marketplace, he made his choices as he saw best. |
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schweady |
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Drab |
quote Frenchy19: "Perhaps a stupid question, but where can one purchase these new toys? I recall seeing a couple of Craigslist, but, beyond that, any way to secure one?" I had the same question. When you google "Bell Composites" you get a company that makes huge catamaran sailboats in Florida. |
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kanoes |
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RoundRiver |
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HansSolo |
quote kanoes: "looking forward to seeing the new magic." +1 |
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TIMMY |
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Kendra |
Making my sign now! "Will work for canoes!" |
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ozarkpaddler |
quote Tebpac: "Good to hear that he is building canoes again. Wanted a Rockstar in the worst way. Will have to see what the newer 16'6" solo will be like..." There is still one left at Oak Orchard. I know it's in NY, but here's a link. If you scroll down to the Bell canoes and it's right under the Rob Roys. Rock Star at Oak Orchard |
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winner |
quote Tebpac: "Wanted a Rockstar in the worst way." Absolutely, me too...Never figured I wouldn't be able to find one, but alas, I scour the web everyday in hopes one might become available... Winner |
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Cedarboy |
In TB back yard, so to say. CB |
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Tebpac |
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TIMMY |
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