Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Gravity Water filters
|
Author | Message Text | ||
Bonvicken |
quote jb in the wild: "quote WoodPaddle: "I am debating if I want to go with Do it yourself or purchased but leaning towards purchase. Don't really even need the reducer. I found that the size of clear plastic hose that the Sawyer filter fits into inserts into the ID of the spigot of the collapsible Reliance water bag and makes a pretty good seal. Keep it simple. |
||
outdoors4me |
|
||
Koda |
quote boonie: "Is it just my imagination or...? It seems like the clogging and being unable to fix that in the field is more of a problem with the Katadyn than the Sawyer or Platypus. Is it because they can be backflushed and Katadyn can't?" Maybe this has already been addressed.... The Platypus slows down after a while, depending on what's in the water (obviously). I raise the clean reservoir above the dirty reservoir for 5 seconds to backflush, then drop it back down again. That's all it takes. When reloading, I dump the remaining few ounces and rinse the dirty reservoir with lake water before refilling. I backflush with a half-gallon once in a while but that's probably overkill. Never a problem except for the usual air bubbles. The only real problem I've had with it is when I tried to use an MSR prefilter (Sweetwater?). The original filter element clogged instantly. I replaced that with coffee filter paper and it trapped an air pocket and refused to pass any water. After numerous attempts I finally threw the prefilter away and I'm back to the original, efficient system. |
||
Boppa |
I agree with you that "at least they offered an explanation", but hopefully if their product is to continue to be bought, they best get into the business of a solution. Boppa |
||
Itchy Menace |
"Well, not exactly. The gravity filters work great most of the time. It is only this time of year when the tannic acid levels are high and if you encounter that red algae that it is a problem. The absolute best one to have would be the Pocket, because you can clean the ceramic in the field to unclog it. However, the Hiker, Hiker PRO, or Vario are just fine...they just don't last as long." I followed up once more to clarify when "this time of year" is. That response: "It is typically in the Summer months, but it could vary depending on weather conditions." So as someone who trips almost exclusively in the summer, I've written off a (Katadyn) gravity filter. Not all that impressed with the customer service. |
||
Huck |
If they don't do something they will loose many customers. I will agree they have great customer service. Katadyn sent me a free replacement filter. Thats great for my next trip. In two days of use it will be useless. My last filter was only good for 4 gallons of water. At $10 per gallon I cant afford to use their product. |
||
TFo |
One of my buddies had been on the numbered lakes the week before with his Katadyn Base Camp. He said it worked great for the five days that he stayed there with his girls. We started out using his Base Camp since my water bag was much smaller. We got two full days out of it before it slowed to a quick drip. My Amigo Pro with retrofitted Sawyer filter saved the trip. The Sawyer filter never slowed at all. As others have mentioned, it's beneficial to get the air bubbles out of the line going to the filter. The only improvement I need to make before next year is a large water bag to match the abilities of the filter. |
||
WoodPaddle |
|
||
Brik847 |
|
||
sdebol |
I purchased the MSR AutoFlow gravity filter and liked it much better than the Katadyn for a number of reasons. First, you can easily backflush it in the field and that helped quite a bit to maintain water flow. Second, I really liked that the filter was separate from the water bag (not inside it like the Katadyn). That plus the quick release tubing makes it easier to take just the bag for refilling. Third, I really like how easily the setup attaches to a Nalgene or MSR dromedary bag (I used the latter). Finally, I'm not sure if this is true or not, but the MSR filter seems more protected within its plastic case than the the Katadyn filter does just attached inside the bottom of its bag without any other covering. I took the Katadyn back to REI... Steve |
||
Boppa |
Sorry for the delayed response to your suggestion, I hadn't checked back on this thread. I cannot see how it would hurt. I have suggested in my response to Sarah at Katadyn USA it would be nice to offer a "special" deal to present owners of the Gravity Feed as they are in a difficult situation. I am hoping to test their customer service, other requests should help. Boppa |
||
Koda |
This year I brought along a filtration water bottle, which stayed strapped into the boat. I didn't need it, but it will be there on all future trips. |
||
mogos |
quote Cedarboy: "Found what I was looking for. You are right makes no since to pay an extra $100 for tubes and dry bags. I have plenty of that laying around. Time for a project. I got my Sawyer at REI (during the last 20% off sale): http://www.rei.com/product/801824 I saw that jb was using the previous version (black instead of blue/gray) of the Sawyer. I'm not sure if anything has changed, but -- to respond to Koda's experience -- as an "inline" water filter, you can drink straight through it. So, if you are seriously dehydrated, you don't have to wait for gravity to do its work -- at least with the Sawyer. You can suck it through. That makes it useful to attach to a bladder when backpacking to drink directly through the filter. Filtering on demand. I'm still building my homemade system (thanks jb and redoleary for posting the pics), so field testing still awaits. The pump will come along as a back up. |
||
bojibob |
I used a homemade "Pre-filter" by wrapping a 10 micon sheet around the filter. (See my previous post on this thread for more info) We drew our water from shore and it never slowed down a drop and was the most commented piece of gear we brought. Everyone loved it and we had the best tasting water I have ever had. The ease and use was outstanding. The pre-filter was the key! |
||
sterngirl |
How did you keep the "prefilter" attached? Did you end up changing it out every day? Do you think any of the success is because you went later in the summer, hence around the end of the alleged "red algae bloom?" Thanks for sharing your results! |
||
TFo |
I took my Amigo Pro to the BWCA on June 3rd of last year. The Amigo Pro came with the same filter as a Katadyn basecamp. It lasted 2 or 3 days. After that, we were boiling and straining through a clean shirt. I don't know what the temps were like before we got there, but the highs that week were in the low 50s and we barely saw the sun (It rained alot). There was a lot of pollen floating in certain areas where the wind had blown it. We gathered all of our water about a hundred yards from shore. Maybe the filter is also susceptible to pollen, but I doubt there was a full blown algae bloom going on. For the record, the Katadyn filter shield looks like new, and the filter element is only slightly discolored. I'm hoping my Amigo Pro with Sawyer inline filter will filter more water than my Katadyn did. |
||
wifishncanoe |
|
||
Koda |
quote wifishncanoe: "We could not believe how much faster this was compared to pumping. " I used an MSR Mini-Works before getting the Platypus. With a clean filter, it takes 80-90 strokes per LITER, more as the filter gets dirty. The pump hasn't seen duty in three years and will probably never be used again. |
||
OldFingers57 |
|
||
WoodPaddle |
|
||
Boppa |
We should probably be included on the positive side of experiences with the Katadyn Base Camp, " it has served us well" was stated in my earlier post. While we will admit to knowing very little about algae bloom, the same filter has provided us with our water requirements for 6 days at Crab, Little Crab and Korb Lakes, 6 days on Skipper and Banadad Lakes, 6 days on Vista, Horseshoe and Caribou Lakes. Plus a number of long weekend trips in the Adirondacks. It is still filtering. Although, all of our trips To the BW's have been in the last week of August, first week of September. That may be the difference? Thanks, Boppa |
||
Craig K |
..you would think that they could come up with some sort of pre-filter that would clip on over the filter housing once installed in the Base Camp bag? For my trip coming up this weekend, I picked up the Sawyer bottle filter system. And as I was walking through Cabela's last night I found the MSR filter bag (just bag and hose attachment) for $20. When I got home I took the inline filter from the Sawyer bottle and put it on the MSR filter bag, now I have the Katadyn base camp, MSR bag and Sawyer bottle for during the day when in the canoe. I should find out on this trip which one I like best. I do like the thought of having the bottle filter as a handy backup. |
||
Itchy Menace |
Thank you for your email. The problem is water conditions this time of year in the BWCA. Tannic acid as well as a clear algae called red algae (you cannot see it, unfortunately) act like you are pumping syrup instead of water. They will quickly clog up cartridges and when it is a gravity system, you have no mechanism to "force" water through. You would have found that if you would have taken the Base Camp cartridge out and put it in your Hiker PRO filter that you would get a bit more life out of it because you would be pumping instead of gravity only. Sincerely, Sarah Not a great answer, not horrible I felt. Doesn't leave me loving them but at least they offered an expanation. |
||
jberns |
I don't have any pictures. I just used the cap, hose and inline filter from the Sawyer & the much bigger bag from the Katadyn. The Sawyer cap fits it perfectly; and since that does not get removed to refill, it should eliminate the leaks & drips sometimes found after a refill of the Sawyer bag. |
||
WoodPaddle |
Here is my review on the system Pro’s • Works good with little clogging • Ability to back flush in the field • You can use the filter to get a quick drink of water if need be Quick connect Hoses Color coded on filter NOTE: I found it was best to clear any air in the tube between the bladder and the filter. To do this I end of the hose above the valve and started the water flow. Holding the filter I lowered the hose until all air was out and a small stream of water started to come out and then connected the gray end of the filter Con’s • I found it difficult to fill up the bladder and usually took two people and a portable bucket • Bladder appears to be prone to leeks and failures • Dose not have a clean hose and adapter for Nalgene bottles ( I used my adapter from my Katadyn pump) Overall I was very happy with the system so far, time will tell if it will continue to work efficiently. Not quite ready to leave the pump behind. |
||
Amok |
|
||
gbusk |
quote redoleary: "I made my own gravity filter system, using a sil dry sack and tubing and a sawyer filter, anyway, I'll never go back to a pump, it just too nice to have the gravity system." How did you connect to the sil bag? Photos? |
||
WoodPaddle |
|
||
redoleary |
|
||
imcold |
|
||
kayakgirl |
|
||
kayakgirl |
it does slow down after a few days of filtering for 6 people. the homemade sil bag is workable but a little troublesome. you'll never pump again! |
||
Amok |
quote WoodPaddle: "I am debating if I want to go with Do it yourself or purchased but leaning towards purchase. That's interesting. I thought that Katadyn bought out Sawyer a few years back ... |
||
WoodPaddle |
|
||
boonie |
quote Amok: "quote WoodPaddle: "I am debating if I want to go with Do it yourself or purchased but leaning towards purchase. Katadyn bought out PUR a few years ago. |
||
Koda |
Similar to flactemnad's review of the Sawyer. After 10 days serving two people (about 30 gallons filtered) it had no problems other than a small leak near the dirty reservoir's exit valve, which responded well to a piece of duct tape. Assemble, fill, work out bubbles (or prime), wait a few minutes, backflush, repeat. No problems at all. |
||
ClarkPeters |
Maybe that is correct, but the water never seemed especially tannin tinged. If filters can't handle tannin they don't have much value in the northern forests. Pete |
||
J-Stroke |
jberns - I like your solution to the Sawyer system using the larger katadyne bag, and that the combo didn't leak. Overthehill- I will have to check out WM, thirty dollars sounds like a heck of a deal to get into a Sawyer system and creating something to filter larger quantities of water. Wish I wasn't so anal about stuff that leaks. Boy that dripping water from the Sawyer 4 liter gravity filter(s) bugged me.... ;>) |
||
WoodPaddle |
Platypus Clean Stream system Koda – Works good Milotrain – Works good Mboehme – Positive but just concerned about cold weather disclaimer Katadyn Base Camp Gacoleman – mixed results Dl – Sold great system TNMan – Sold great system Bobby726 – clogged blamed on red algae bloom Budfox_mn – 3 years now working great Sonlightdave – slowed down after one bag Cowdoc – no problems Huck – slowed down on second day blamed on invisible algae Wtgmonkey – no problems Guest Paddler – slow switching to a sawyer Wb4syth – slow glad to have his MSR pump SunCatcher – clogged to a dribble ClarkPeters – Slowed to a drip ItchyMenace – slowed to a drip Boppa - worked great for his 6 Day in a veriety of lakes durng Aug Sep Sawyer Filter Custom and System Redoleary – Positive concerned that it must be primed Jb in the Wld – Positive likes ability to back flush in the field BWPaddler – concerned with freezing Bees – Good system no problems Jberns – slow and used up filters Gbusk – Good system Bees – good system works well J-Stroke – returned it because it leaked Over the hill – No Problems Jberns – replaced base campe with Sawyer works great First Need XL filter Milotrain – Postive MSR gravity filter Frenchy19 – Great system Please feel free to correct any information this is just the highlights I found in the post. |
||
mogos |
with a lot of tannin visible in the water, the sawyer filtered steadily and without any problems besides air bubbles. i timed it on day 3: 1 liter in 1 min 37 seconds. as a first time gravity filter user, this was -- by far -- the easiest and most pleasant water experience i've ever had. no fuss. no muss. |
||
Koda |
I can't help but wonder what conditions Katadyn designed their filter for if they blame tannins and algae for poor performance. |
||
Cedarboy |
Where do you get the filter for only $45 ? CB |
||
Cedarboy |
CB |
||
sterngirl |
I've been using it for the last three years. And by "using it" I mean that it's been a last resort. Most of the time we just use a steri pen or nothing. This year I tried using it daily. I used a coffee filter and hosiery to keep it on. It ran quick the first day, slowed the second day. I replaced the coffee filter every other day. I used filtered water to scrub the sheet around the filter. By day 4 it was useless. Maybe would filter two nalgene's worth in 8 hours overnight. I will not bring it on anymore trips!!! I'm sick of paying for new filters, and only getting a couple days use out of them. I have a PUR Scout and the MSR MIOX Purifier. (which I got for a gift and have never tried using before) And my trusty SteriPen. Maybe next trip I'll give the Miox a try. |
||
mboehme |
|
||
WoodPaddle |
Product Link |
||
deanalika |
|
||
redoleary |
|
||
Koda |
|
||
gbusk |
quote redoleary: "I'l.l try to get some photos up later, but just melt a hole the appropriate size in the bottom of the bag. I found a tiny nalgene bottle with the same thread as the cap with a hose comming out as a platty bottle, cut down the bottle so its just threads and put inside the bag and screw the cap/hose adaper on from outside, connect filter, in line and put one of those squeezy things on it for an on/off valve. It will be more clear with pix." Where did you find the "squeezy thing"? |
||
gbusk |
|
||
redoleary |
The Sawyer filter I have is technically a "purifier" and the chief problem with it is that you must prime it first from a faucet and then you have to make sure it doesnt loose prime during your trip because it becomes extremely slow, so I may change my filter to another one that is easier to use in the field. |
||
Chilly |
|
||
bees |
|
||
BWPaddler |
|
||
milotrain |
http://www.amazon.com/First-Filter-Purifier-filter-purifier/dp/B0009RP8T2 |
||
gacoleman |
|
||
WoodPaddle |
|
||
myceliaman |
|
||
redoleary |
|
||
Huck |
I have been following this thread. Can you post some pics of your homemade filter? I am interested in seeing it. I bet others are too!! |
||
redoleary |
Basically, melt a smallish hole in the bag, smaller than the opening in the Nalgene bottle, then take the cut off Nalgene bottle and put inside the bag and screw on the Platy connector from the outside pinching the fabric in between the two. I have the prefilter on a standpipe because I figure if theres a lot of stuff in the water and it has time to settle the pickup will be well above it all. On the outside of the bag just connect hose to the hose adapter on the Platy connection and put the filter in there. The further the better as it keeps a decent head pressure on the filter. Then on the clean side of the filter put the shut off valve. I always pre-prefilter my water through a bandanna when I fill the bag, then I just hang in a tree and there's nearly 2 gal of water ready anytime. Hope this helps. Any questions let me know. Good Luck RED |
||
boonie |
|
||
bobby726 |
If you're planning on using the Katdyn base camp filter, bring a back up. I bought one brand new, tested it at home. Awesome! Took it to the BWCA, day one, awesome, day two, not so awesome. It clogged an stopped filtering completely. Good thing I brought a backup hand filter or we would have been SOL. Many people have had this same issue. I contacted the company and they told me they here a lot of this from people in the bwca during certain times of the year. Here is their quote from my email to them. "We can almost judge the timing of the algae bloom in the BWCA by the rate of calls on BaseCamps getting jammed up. Nearly every year there is a period where red algae blooms up there and plays havoc with any water filter" Now, to their credit, they are replacing by basecamper with a hand filter at no charge (I just sent it to them yesterday). I'm not saying don't buy it because when it works, it works great. Just have a backup in case it clogs. Also, in Katdyn defense, I have talked to the VP about this issue and they have been more than helpful. |
||
dl |
Don't get me wrong - the filter pump is still at the bottom of one of my packs ! |
||
budfox_mn |
|
||
dl |
|
||
TN Man |
|
||
boonie |
|
||
WoodPaddle |
I stopped by REI to take a look at the models available. The sales person was hot on the Sawyer system indicating it is more durable than the Katadyn. They also liked the back flushing capability to clean it even in the field. The Sawyer is more expensive but I am not sure if this is an indication that it is better. I am going to check with Midwest Mountaineering as well. |
||
boonie |
quote WoodPaddle: "I am debating if I want to go with Do it yourself or purchased but leaning towards purchase. Did REI also have the Platypus Clean Stream and MSR for comparison? |
||
gbusk |
|
||
ubbenholdthekraut |
After reading this thread, the do it yourself method with the Sawyer 3 way inline filter makes the most sense to me.... Just need to find the right diameter hose. Want it to be flexible, not rigid. Surgical tubing? Auto parts store? Any ideas? |
||
ClarkPeters |
The Basecamp filter comes with tubing that I think is silicone based. I haven't been able to find that in local stores. If e-ordering is acceptable, check United States Plastic I have always had good dealings with them and they have everything you could imagine. Pete |
||
Cedarboy |
They also have the fittings. Would assume Menards and Lowes would have same along with most hardware stores. CB |
||
WoodPaddle |
|
||
Huck |
Thanks for the info. Do you think it would be helpful for members here to make a mass request for the ceramic filter? If the company gets numerous requests it may persuade Katadyn to bring them to the market. Just a thought...... |
||
KevinL |
Called the company when I got home and they replaced the filter. KL |
||
ClarkPeters |
It's available from lots of places, by the way, including Amazon. Pete |
||
ClarkPeters |
|
||
Snipit |
quote Boppa: "I had mentioned on an earlier post, in this thread, that I would inform all if any response was given by Katadyn Headquarters in Switzerland whom I had contacted through the suggestion of Sarah from Katadyn USA. |
||
nelsonone |
|
||
Amok |
|
||
nelsonone |
My thinking is to pour the water through the filter bag and then into the base camp filter. This process should eliminate any concerns of algae in my drinking water. Thoughts? |
||
Scout64 |
|
||
mocha |
if we don't use this filter we'll just boil. didn't think it took up too much room. rolled it up and stuck it in the coffee pot for travel. |
||
schweady |
|
||
Huck |
(Of course I own a MSR Sweetwater pump not the Hiker.) The problem is in the use of a paper filter. If it used a ceramic filter like the MSR the filter could be cleaned and back into service within minutes. Katadyn is going to send me a replacement filter cartridge at no charge. |
||
Wabler |
|
||
sterngirl |
|
||
BWPaddler |
Agree with Koda that for hydration during paddling, it sure looks like a water bottle filter would be nice, and in camp with larger groups the gravity CONCEPT is nice. Now invisible algae? Clogging only BW-used filters? Not saying they are wrong, but just WHO would have thought? |
||
boonie |
|
||
Amok |
I bought mine on clearance 3-4 yrs ago, for those of you that are interested. Now I'm going to have to take a pic and post it :) |
||
toothmiester |
|
||
boonie |
quote sterngirl: "If anyone has a picture (or takes a picture) of a coffee filter around the filter, I'd love to see how that looks so I can try it in a few weeks. Thanks." Sterngirl - It doesn't go around the filter itself, but around the intake that goes in the water. Just hold it on with a rubber band, twist tie, etc. |
||
sterngirl |
Sterngirl - It doesn't go around the filter itself, but around the intake that goes in the water. Just hold it on with a rubber band, twist tie, etc." Huh? On the gravity filter, there isn't an "intake" that goes in the water. The water is poured in the bag where the filter is located... Not sure I understand...? |
||
boonie |
quote sterngirl: " Huh? On the gravity filter, there isn't an "intake" that goes in the water. The water is poured in the bag where the filter is located... Not sure I understand...?" My bad :). That's the way it works on pump filter. I haven't used gravity filter so I don't know either. |
||
Cedarboy |
|
||
boonie |
What do you all think? |
||
Boppa |
We cut to size a #4 coffee filter which we wrap around the filter and hold it in place with a section of hosiery, which I knot to keep in place on the filter. This tip was from someone on this site, not my idea, but works well. We have been using the same filter for over 30 camping days and still going. We do paddle away from shore and using a pot take our water from below the surface to put into the bag. At the end of the season, I clean the filter, run a 1/2 gallon of tap water with 2 oz of bleach thru it, let it dry and pack away till next season. Boppa |
||
jb in the wild |
SunCatcher That clog is a bit%$ that's why I got the Sawyer you can back flush it in the field. I've used this for over 30 days in the Bdub now and have not had a problem yet. I always back flush it when I get back home with the attachment that hooks up to my sink. So far so good. JB |
||
Boppa |
I think you maybe right. We tend to go early and then late in the season so probably miss the "algae bloom", thus no problems so far for us with the Katadyn Gravity Feed, it has served us well. Boppa |
||
SunCatcher |
quote bobby726: "My first big bwca.com tip. I had great luck first two days of five day trip with six guys with the base camp. The rest of the trip it just dripped and pissed me off. We used a Hiker Pro during the day and used the base camp at camp and it clogged and just dribbled out...so dont know what to think. Liked it at first hated it at the end. Even took the filter out of the Hiker Pro and switched em around as they are the same filter and didnt seem to help a whole bunch. tried to get water in deeper clearer water every time and still a pain in the ass. Mixed feelings on the base camp filter. SunCatcher |
||
gacoleman |
|
||
GSP |
|
||
Cedarboy |
Check out the Scout shops in your area they do have some decent prices on basic gear,Thermarest,Sawyer,GSI, Snow and Nealley,Lodge cast iron,Open Country to name a few of the brands. CB |
||
redoleary |
Nice work, I have seen some of these projects on the web. Where did you get the black clamp? " Not sure where the black clamp came from, might have come with the filter?? I'm sure I've seen them for sale somewhere on the internet before too? Sorry thats not more helpful. |
||
gbusk |
quote bees: "i used my new 4 liter sawyer complete water treatment system for the first time this last weekend on elbow lake near tofte. i can't compare it to other water treatment systems since i've never used one before but i couldn't be happier with this unit. it's so simple to use and all components are color coded to lessen the risk of cross-contamination. it took a little less than 10 minutes to filter 4 liters. the bags are like msr dromedary bags and pack fairly small even with the tube(s) and filter. i like how you can backwash the filter without any special attachments but i haven't had the need to do that yet. the filter itself is made by "crc" in minneapolis (says right on the filter) and is guaranteed for 1 million gallons. i intend to test that guarantee and i will post on here when i get to 1 million gallons but i'm only at a little over 3 gallons so i'll have to make a few more trips. i got it here: moontrail. " I have this in the 2L version and I think the 4L system is the best gravity system on the market. I wish the 2 liter clean (blue) bag had the access valve on the cap like the 4L version. Other than that I really like the 2L system for one person. |
||
jb in the wild |
quote WoodPaddle: "I am debating if I want to go with Do it yourself or purchased but leaning towards purchase. Sorry took a while to get back to you, WoodPaddle, if you want to save yourself a $100 bucks or so do it yourself. 5 Gal container $8. 2 1/2 is $7. a few feet of hose and some reducers $15 bucks and $45 for the filter. The 5 gal has a spigot on it to turn the flow on and off. This set up works just as good as the store bought items that will cost you alot more. My girlfriend got back late Thursday night and she had a good picture of it hanging in the tree. She said it worked without a hitch. I'm using the extra 100 bucks for a food barrel harness. |
||
wb4syth |
I used my neighbors Sawyer on my last trip and I will be purchasing one. While it is not the speediest on the market, it did hold up longer and I was able to backflush at home. |
||
boonie |
quote wb4syth: "I replied earlier with bad results from the Katadyn Base. I guess you did not find it necessary to backflush the Sawyer in the field? After backflushing at home, was flow restored? It seems too many people have had trouble with the Katadyn and there is no solution. It seems that Sawyer is the best of the bunch and Platypus a close second. |
||
SevenofNine |
quote WoodPaddle: "I hate filtering water and am interested in a gravity system, like the Katadyn Base Camp Water Filter. Has anyone had used this type and if so do you have a recommendations. My buddy bought one of these a few years ago. We use it almost exclusively except when out paddling. We are 110% sold. It is such an easy system over pumping. Love it. |
||
markaroberts |
I have used Katydn Hiker Pros on two BWCA trips. Pumping for 6 guys, the filter totally clogged up in 3 days. My experience leads me to believe that the Hiker pro is realy designed for one guy and his needs. For a group, a ceramic filter is the way to go. |
||
buz |
Not sure if you can retrofit the ceramic to the non ceramic units, or if the ceramic filter is available, but it has been a good purchase. |
||
Huck |
Thanks for posting the info on the ceramic filter. That has me thinking.....Can a ceramic MSR filter be used in the Base Camp?? If so the filter could be cleaned in the field and the algae problem would be solved. |
||
Huck |
I am starting to wonder if I should build a gravity filter with a ceramic element for ease of cleaning. |
||
buz |
Maybe yes, maybe no. All depends if you can get the filter interface to be watertight on the bag with "make it" parts. I dont know what the MSR looks like on the bottom. If you want me to take a couple of shots of my filter and how it fits to the bag, let me know, and I will be glad to post a couple. |
||
ClarkPeters |
I took the screen off both filters. There was no evidence of suspended solids. "Invisible algae"? Are they serious? A water filter that plugs up so quickly by doing what it's supposed to do (filtering invisible stuff out of the water) is worthless. For this to be a viable option, Katadyn needs to figure out a cleanable pre-filter. There was an upside to the situation, though. I have taken Aqua-Mira as a backup treatment, but never considered using it as my primary water treatment system. (Don't know why. Maybe the expense.) Treating a 6 liter Platypus took 20 minutes, which was hours faster than the Basecamp, and less hassle. Considering that I used $80 dollars worth of Basecamp filters to treat 3 days of water, Aqua-Mira is much less expensive. It's also more compact and lighter. I don't think I'll be going back to filters, either gravity or pump. Pete |
||
boonie |
As near as I can tell from the previous posts, the Katadyn seems to work fine until it clogs, but isn't field cleanable. That doesn't seem to be true with the Sawyer or Platypus systems, which seem to easily backflushed in the field, But I'd like to hear the answer to your question from some who have used the Sawyer or Platypus. |
||
Cedarboy |
CB |
||
WoodPaddle |
|
||
bees |
quote WoodPaddle: "I am wondering if the design of the Sawyer’s use of hollow fiber membrane as a filter may give it a lot more of surface area so it reduces clogging. The negative is that the Sawyer system, unlike the Base Camp, does not use a second carbon filter so the taste of the water can be a little less appealing." i have used my 4 liter sawyer complete water filtration system on two trips just outside of the bdub so far and i can attest that the water it filtered was the cleanest i've ever tasted. granted, i always collect water from the middle of the lake and the water probably would have tasted clean regardless of filtering. i filtered 8-12 liters a day it takes less than 10 minutes to filter 4 liters. also, i've yet to experience any slowness or clogging issues but it's reassuring to know that i can backflush it when needed and without any special attachments. when i was first in the market for a gravity filter, i looked at the katadyn base camp at rei. i spoke with one of the workers and he recommended the sawyer even though they didn't have any in stock and the 4 liter units were only available online back then. he even looked online for me and another website that had them in stock for cheaper then rei – moontrail yes it was initially expensive @ $109 + $9 shipping but the filter is guaranteed for 1 million gallons. i look at it this way – a million gallon filter is essentially a lifetime filter. how many replacement filters would a person have to buy to get 1 million gallons out of another filtration system? 60 years from now, when my bones are too creaky to air paddle my hovercanoe and the bdub is overrun with nuclear war refugees, i can hand down my sawyer filter to my grandkid and be rest assured that he will have clean glowing water to keep him hydrated. |
||
J-Stroke |
I switched it out for a MSR gravity system. I have been very impressed so far. I like that it is serviceable in the field (easily back flushed) and has a ceramic filter. The product seems quite solid and well built. I steered clear of the Katadyne because it can't (I believe) be easily serviced in the field. I will be on trail August 3rd through the 9th doing the Moose River Loop. One of the folks in my group has the Katadyne gravity filter system, so we will be able to compare the performance of the two in identical settings over the week. I will post the result when I get back. |
||
boonie |
|
||
overthehill |
|
||
Itchy Menace |
|
||
Huck |
Does the Sawyer filter go inside the bag like the original Katadyn filter? Or is this an inline hose filter? Can you post pics of your set up?? |
||
Cedarboy |
|
||
jberns |
|
||
WoodPaddle |
|
||
mirth |
After having my Pur Scout become practically impossible to pump by the end of our 2 man, 7 day trip this fall I'm strongly considering a gravity setup for next year's adventures. This was the 2nd trip on this particular cartridge, the other trip was a 3 man, 7 day... Total water pumped between the two trips was somewhere around 50 gallons. I'm getting pulled in the direction of the Sawyer filters and am curious if there's any newer feedback on them versus the other offerings out there. The fact that the Sawyer and other non-Katadyn gravity setups can be backflushed in the field makes it very attractive. Other question is do I save ~$30 and get just the filter and then rig up my own DIY setup, or spend the extra to get the gray water bag? |
||
sonlightdave |
|
||
sonlightdave |
|
||
Koda |
quote sonlightdave: "I used the Katadyn system (in Boundary Waters)as directed but only got about 1 1/2 bags filtered before the think slowed to a drip....filtered perhaps 1 1/2 gallons per day. I'm giving Katadyn a chance to reply to my inquiries before going further with my opinion on this system." Did you backflush it? The Platypus CleanStream needs to be backflushed every 1-5 gallons depending on the amount of suspended solids. It also runs slowly if air bubbles are trapped in the filter, but I'd guess that wasn't your problem since it ran OK at first. |
||
cowdoc |
|
||
Huck |
Upon getting home I took the filter apart. The pre-filter screen appeared clean. The paper filter was discolored. I rinsed the filter with tap water and refilled the bag with tap water. The system would only drip water out. Water is expensive at 4 gallons for a $40 filter. It seems precautions need to be taken such a using a coffee filter over the actual water filter. I will also try to figure out a system to pre-filter the water before filling the filter bag. |
||
wtgmonkey |
|
||
Cedarboy |
CB |
||
TFo |
quote Cedarboy: "jb in the wild I just got my Sawyer from SCS Mall. They're listed on Sawyer's site as one of their distributors. I had my filter 3-4 days after I placed the order. http://www.scs-mall.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SWP120 I took the Katadyn filter out of my Amigo Pro and put the sawyer in the line because I didn't like how slow it got after 3 days last year. I'm hoping to see better results with the Sawyer when I'm up there next month. |
||
wb4syth |
After 2 fills (from mid lake water) it slowed to a trickle - "no problem" we figured, just scrub down the pre-filter (I have had annoying experience with that clear algae up there before). The pre-filter cleaning didn't help one bit. It went back to REI. My friend purchased a Sawyer and will be letting me use it for my late July trip (but you can bet my trusty MSR pump will also be along) - hopefully it will work better. |
||
Brik847 |
|
||
Corndog |
I like pics. |
||
bojibob |
I tested the filter first with a 100 micron sheet and it worked fine. But then I read that the algae are around 30 micron in size, so I knew this wouldn't help. I did some searching on the web and found filter sheets that are used to filter diesel fuel and oil. These sheets are good down to 10 microns (they offer them in even lower microns). So I ordered a sheet to test it out. The water flow was excellent and now I have a 10 micron pre-filter. The real test comes in 2 weeks when I use Quetico water. I plan to use the 100 micron sheets on my 2.5 gallon fill jug and change the 10 micron filter sheets daily. The cost was minimal $11.95 + shipping for a 72" x 36" which is enough to make 150+ sheets. I ordered it from Duda Diesel, but you may be able to get it local. Duda Diesel |
||
TFo |
quote bojibob: "Update to my previous post. I guess my only question would be: Are you sure there are no chemicals in that filter sheet that shouldn't go into your body? Otherwise, sounds great! |
||
jb in the wild |
JB By the way it's a million gal filter. I got tired of spending 40 bucks to replace the filter on my Katadyn. |
||
bojibob |
I did some thinking and came up with what I hope is the solution. I purchased some aquarium filter sheets 7" X 7" that I can cut to fit, wrap around filter and attach with two rubber bands. Product Description Super Filter Felt (Fine Filtering Media)Our Filter Felt is extremely effective at trapping and holding waterborne solid waste. Filter Felt is available in 100 and 200 microns, Arrange Filter Felt inside the filter so that the water to be filtered is forced through the felt and is unable to bypass it. Filter Felt is very effective and might require frequent cleanings depending on the volume of waterborne solid waste. Filter Felt is extremely durable and can be cleaned and reused several times. I will also take some coffee filters since they also seem to be effective and report the results back. |
||
Boppa |
A good idea for a solution, thanks for sharing. Will look forward to your assessment. I certainly would like to hear that Katadyn was being as proactive. Boppa P.S. I have sent Katadyn an inquiry about this filter issue, will let all know any response I receive. |
||
ClarkPeters |
Katadyn is blaming the tannin, in addition to red algae. I don't think tannin can be filtered out. The water that went through the filters (before they clogged) looked the same color as the unfiltered water. I'll be very interested to see if your system works. Otherwise, I have two Basecamp filters and nowhere to use them. Pete |
||
mjmkjun |
quote myceliaman: "I have a Katdyn base camp filter and I'm sold 100%. I will never have to pump water again. If your in the market for a filter buy the gravity filter why on earth would you want to pump water when you can let gravity "nature" do it for you." ditto. Pair it with a platypus (not the filtration system referred to above) and it's a great set up. If you get Katadyn base camp follow included suggestions and prime that filter before you get out there. |
||
Boppa |
"I have sent your inquiry about a field cleanable filter to our main office in Switzerland. We did at one time offer a cleanable ceramic filter but dropped it as many found it to slow." Will let you known if the "main office" has any thoughts or solutions to offer. Boppa |
||
bojibob |
quote ClarkPeters: "Boji- Be sure to take an alternative water treatment. " I also have a MSR miniworks... |
||
dl |
|
||
ClarkPeters |
quote Koda: "I can't help but wonder what conditions Katadyn designed their filter for if they blame tannins and algae for poor performance." My thoughts exactly. Pete |
||
J-Stroke |
quote J-Stroke: I will be on trail August 3rd through the 9th doing the Moose River Loop. One of the folks in my group has the Katadyne gravity filter system, so we will be able to compare the performance of the two in identical settings over the week. I will post the result when I get back. " Just got back from 7 days on trail with six people and my MSR gravity filter (field serviceable by backflushing) and another individual's Katadyne gravity filter. Day 1: both worked great. Day 2: MSR worked great, Katadyne slowed down a bit. Day 3: MSR worked great after backflushing, Katadyne slowed to a dribble. Day 4: MSR worked great after another backflush, Katadyne hung up but no one used it (dripped slowly.) Day 5, 6, and 7. Group used only MSR. Backflushed 2 or 3 times each day with 1 liter of water each flush (5 minutes each backflush). MSR gravity filter worked great...I saw the Platypus gravity filter at Piragis - the parts look identical except for the color...same product perhaps (?) I'm sold on the MSR gravity filter. It rocked. |
||
boonie |
It seems the MSR needed more frequent backflushing as the week wore on, but still worked just as well after? Any idea how much water you filtered through it during the trip? My first BW trip was a loop from Moose River North to LLC to see the pictos and Warrior Hill, over to Pocket Lake and down through Oyster and out. What loop did you do? |
||
mogos |
quote J-Stroke: Cascade Designs owns both the MSR and Platypus brands, so it is a pretty safe bet that the two filters are identical. I think this thread has proven to me that the Katadyn Gravity Filter is not a worthwhile investment. Not only do the MSR/Platypus and Sawyer ilters seem to perform much more reliably, they do not require replacement filters, making them more economical. I drank the koolaid -- through a Sawyer inline filter! |
||
J-Stroke |
quote boonie: It seems the MSR needed more frequent backflushing as the week wore on, but still worked just as well after? Any idea how much water you filtered through it during the trip?" I didn't keep numbers on the volume of water. There were 6 of us...figuring 3 liters(?) a day X 6 people equals 18 liters per day, X 6 full days (5 days plus two half days) equals 108 liters of water from the two pumps. I'd say about 70% was from the MSR gravity filter - about 76 liters. We also used it for hydrating foods and for cooking some meals (boiling water for pasta) where the water was particularly "thick" or dirty looking. So add on about 10 liters of water, and we are at about 86 liters for the MSR gravity filter. I believe the more frequent backflushing was due to increased volume of water being filtered (folks stopped using the Katadyne mid trip) and due to all the stuff in the water of the lakes as we were getting closer to finishing. Nina Moose, for example, gave the MSR a workout and we backflushed once for every 4 liter bag that we emptied. The lake water was brown and had lots of stuff in it. Pulling the clear water from Lac La Croix near Fish Steak Narrows ended up requiring much less back-flushing. |
||
J-Stroke |
quote boonie: "My first BW trip was a loop from Moose River North to LLC to see the pictos and Warrior Hill, over to Pocket Lake and down through Oyster and out. What loop did you do? We went up through Oyster >Gebe>Pocket>Lac La Croix (Pictos/Warrior Hill) through bottle portage to Iron, stayed near Curtain Falls, then back through bottle portage to Boulder River> Agnes>Nina Moose, and out through Moose river. It was a great trip. GPS indicates we went about 70 miles. We had a great time! |
||
boonie |
|
||
flactemnad |
Got it flushed, tested, and sterilized. Ready for next week's trip! |
||
Mr Green |
|
||
uberben |
|
||
Boppa |
I received a response from Katadyn Headquarters from Alexander Walentin. He has indicated that a solution exists with the field cleanable Camp Filter #8013637. It is a ceramic filter which is not offered in the USA. It is, I suspect, the ceramic filter that buz mentions in this thread earlier, that he has had success with. Alexander mentions that I should contact Katadyn USA (which I have) to see how this cleanable gravity feed filter can be made available to us here. For those who have a Katadyn Gravity Feed System it will hopefully offer a solution for the "red algae bloom" that hinder your filters so much. I will post any reply from Katadyn USA when received. Boppa |
||
buz |
I am sure if you go the ceramic filter, you will need to somehow make an interface gasket with your pleated set up. Good luck to all. |
||
kwiggy |
|
||
Frenchy19 |
|
||
Snipit |
quote ClarkPeters: "Snipit- How do you fit the Siphon filter to the Basecamp? Or do you use it as Katadyn intended and run the hose out of the top of the bag? |
||
wifishncanoe |
|
||
Koda |
|
||
bojibob |
quote sterngirl: "Bojibob, Stern Girl, The late season may or may not have had an effect. During my research I found out that the Red Algae are around 30 micron in size, so the 10 micron filter which was wrapped and attached with 2 rubber bands should still have done the job. I changed the pre-filter on the first day because I had brought a sheet per day due to the low cost per. I wasn't the "Water Boy" so I told them to watch the flow and change if it seemed to slow. It never did. |
||
Boppa |
Thanks for the update and info. it seems like an inexpensive and workable fix. Nice research, I am going to use those filters in place of the coffee ones we now use. I have not heard back from Sarah at Katadyn who indicated she was working on it. With the holiday I will wait till next week to recontact and of course will share any reply. Boppa |
||
flactemnad |
During a 1 week trip with 4 guys we probably filtered on average 8-10 gallons a day through a Sawyer SP194 0.02 micron gravity filter bag setup. It was so easy, and nice to not have to worry about boiling or purifying by other means. We even were rating the lakes by water quality flavors, picking our favorites out of the series we went through. The trip was in late August, so the brownish lake algae was present and visible in all the lakes. When the flow of the gravity system got too slow I just disconnected the filter from the dirty bag, pressed on the clean bag to force water backwards through the filter and out would come brown algae scum that had filled the filter over a few days. Then hookup the dirty bag and continue filtering at a much faster pace. (Faster is relative, when it takes 15 minutes to filter 4L of clean water! This is the anti-viral system though, and the pores are 1/5 the size of the SP184, so flow is slow to begin with.) I always kept the water filter on top of our personal gear pack, and it was the first thing to get used at every camp site. Get some water going, string up the bags and then start working on the rest of camp. Even during lunch it got used most days to top off water bottles and keep hydration going. Yank it out, fill the dirty bag, string it up in a tree and put the clean bag on the ground. By the end of lunch, when everyone had emptied their bottles it was ready to top them all up. On a couple of brutal portages on hot days it got yanked out to fill up bottles as we went back 3/4 mile to the other end to bring canoes over. By the time we had completed loading the water was finished and ready for filling bottles again. Yeah, little things like priming and tapping air out of the lines is a little bit of a pain, but it makes the water flow faster and only takes a minute. If you want to just connect it and forget it there'll be filtered water too, but it might take longer. Amazingly simple and easy to use. I would recommend any similar tubal filtration system for it's ease of use and practicality in the BWCA. |
||
Boppa |
While Sarah is a very nice person to deal with as a Katadyn Customer Rep. she, as would be expected, is limited in offering what Katadyn can do in offering a solution. Right now, Katadyn does not have a workable solution to offer for those who encounter the Red Algae Bloom, other than replacing the filter that was compromised, only to be compromised again. We did exchange that Katadyn should be able to offer, for sale, a drinking water quality filter paper, to be wrapped around the cartridge which would filter everything above 20 microns for those who travel during times of the Red Algae Bloom. She has indicated that her boss has sent this idea/solution to the powers to be in Switzerland for a decision. Time will tell. While we still use our gravity feed filter with the original cartridge, admittedly we do not trip during the 6/7 weeks of the bloom, I want/hope that Katadyn will become pro-active for a solution. I have edited my remarks in the Gear Guide to reflect the issue. I hope Katadyn allows me to edit these remarks again with a solution for those who own and use this filter at that time in the BWCAW. Boppa |
||
jb in the wild |
JB |
||
lean |
|
||
lean |
|
||
boonie |
quote lean: "Both trips were Mid September!" FWIW, my brother and I used the MSR gravity filter on our late Sept trip without problems. We just filled the bag with water and hung it up connected to an MSR Dromedary bag and went about our other business. Later when we needed it, we had 4 liters of water. We just filled our other water bottles/containers and repeated the process whenever the Dromedary bag was empty so we always had plenty of water. It was a lot simpler and almost effortless in comparison to my pump filter. |
||
jcavenagh |
Looks good. Can't wait to try it. Ordered it from my local BSA District store and they got it from the main organization. Take a look... has clamps and adapters and stuff http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CAMPING&c3=CAMPEQUIP&c4=&lv=3&item=610459 |
||
Amok |
|
||
mjmkjun |
Katadyn Base Camp Filter uses a pleated type filter. Those suckers are not cheap either. Beings there's people swimming + those pit toilets ever-so-slowly seeping their 'organic' contents through ground of the bwca waters--I don't take ANY chances with water I'm going to consume. |
||
jcavenagh |
Your post here reminded me of the BSA stores and I just looked up my local district store. They carry the Sawyer in-line filter so I ordered one and will pick it up soon. They do have a national website from which you can order gear, also. |
||
Ohiopikeman |
What I've turned up are the following models: Katadyn Camp part # 8013637 replacement filter 1120070 (ceramic filter) Katadyn Base Camp part # 8010655 - $65 replacement filter 8014644 (pleated filter) I did find a couple of vendors selling new "BASE CAMPS" over in Europe, but they are going for $120 or more, and will require international shipping charges. Has anyone identified a descent vendor to buy the new BASE CAMPR or just the ceramic filter? - Dave |
||
CanoeN8 |
quote Ohiopikeman: "I have tried unsucessfully to find the ceramic replacement filter or even a new version of the Katadyn Base camp. Here is the new Katadyn Basecamp at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Katadyn-Base-Camp-Water-Filter/dp/B0007U0148 and the filter is the same for the hand-pump which is the following: http://www.amazon.com/Katadyn-Hiker-PRO-Replacement-Cartridge/dp/B0007U0134/ref=pd_bxgy_sg_img_b I have the above listed model, but am unfamilar with earlier models so I hope this helps you! Good luck! |
||
CanoeN8 |
Katadyn Basecamp: Basecamp The filter: Filter |
||
Ohiopikeman |
Thanks for the link. What I was trying to find was a new version of the "KATADYN CAMP" rather than the "KATADYN BASE CAMP". I really like the idea of having a ceramic filter than can be cleaned. The replacement filters for the standard "KATADYN BASE CAMP" run about $40 each. As many of the posters on here have warned that the standard filters can clog after several days of use, I'd like to get the ceramic filter now and pay a bit more for it than have to buy a replacement filter or two every year. - Dave |
||
Boppa |
First, welcome to this site, pleased to have you aboard. Secondly, We have been using the Katadyn Basecamp for over 5 years and have not encountered the "bloom", so no flow issues have developed for us. We are in fact still using the original filter cartridge. We have outlined earlier how we collect our water and clean our filter at the end of the season. We had the opportunity to obtain a Katadyn base Ceramic filter which is field cleanable. While it works, it is much slower than the cartridge version. There are many variables to be considered before a good decision can be made - My observation was that the cartridge filter gave us a liter of water in 2 to 3 minutes. The ceramic filter, brand new was a liter in an hour, give or take a few minutes. So we are using and enjoying the cartridge version, but will keep the ceramic around on the gear shelf, if we hear that the bloom is in force as a replacement if need be. Just some thoughts to update and share. Boppa |
||
Ohiopikeman |
Thank you for the information. I can see from this post that you've done your homework with these filters. I bought one last year and used it during a seven day trip for a group of four. I had no problems with the filter and found that it did worked great. Honestly, my concerns with the filter are related to the large number of posters here that have reported trouble with these filter systems clogging. My thinking was that I would buy a ceramic filter, and only use if if/when my primary pleated filter failed. The lower flow rate of the ceramic does not bother me. I figure that I can hand 10L in the tree at night, and I'll have 10L filtered water in the morning. If I strike out finding the ceramic filter, I will just spend the $40 for a backup pleated filter. The water quality provided by these filters is excellent.... much nicer than using the iodine tablets that I've relied on for the past 20 years. Thanks again, Dave |
||
CanoeN8 |
quote Ohiopikeman: "Canoe, Oh, I'm sorry I misunderstood. My 2-cents are that the base camp has worked well on trips I've been and only after substantial use (past what the packaging had indicated) did I have to replace the filter. But I also did look and Amazon does have the "Camp" filter for $53.46 (though I'm not sure about shipping. Katadyn Camp Filter Hope now that that is what you were looking for. Good luck! |
||
Ohiopikeman |
The filter you show is listed is the replacement for the CAMP system. From a comparison of the two filters, it does not appear that the CAMP filter will work as a direct replacement for the BASE CAMP filter. Nevertheless, a little creative engineering can probably help to allow me to use the SIPHON P/N1120070 with my current BASE CAMP set-up. I'll give it a try. If it does not work, I can always just use the SIPHON as it was intended to be used (put filter in a bucket of dirty water, put hose in a bucket for clean water at a lower height, let gravity siphon water from high to low). Thanks for the tip. - Dave |
||
jb in the wild |
JB |
||
CanoeN8 |
quote Ohiopikeman: "Canoe, Oh I see, you were looking for the actual unit: Katadyn Camp Which is right around what you said ($120) and from a European company. Sorry I couldn't be more help. |
||
jrlatt |
I have noticed that a lot of people have had problems with their Base Camp model. I was wondering were they took their water. If it was from shore or out on a lake and down a few inches. I did purchase one, mainly because I also have the hiker pro. I am considering returning and getting the Sawyer. Fleet Farm does sell milk filters. I was thinking they would make a good pre-filter. They come in 6.5" and 15" disc. The 15" are 12.99 for a package of 100. That would make a lot of pre-filters. That is probably what I will do. The coffee filters I do not think filter out enough. The milk filters should, but after searching the web I could not get a definite answer. Maybe the company will come out with a Pre-filter. They have a screen. How hard would it be to include a replaceable cheap filter. Roger |
||
TIMMY |
. I would say you don't need the virus filter. |
||
BananaHammock |
quote schweady: "BananaHammock: You're thinking filter vs purifier? Filtering to 0.1 micron is plenty good." Thank you, I had not recognized the difference between filtering and purifying water. It seems so obvious now! |
||
bwcadan |
|
||
BananaHammock |
|
||
schweady |
|
||
Intrekid |
|
||
Waxworm80 |
|