Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Solo canoe for moving water & BWCA?
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GunnyJC |
Something like the Phoenix or Northwind Solo in IXP looks like the perfect boat, but they are quite likely out of my price range anyways. I guess I can always dream! It looks like most people are multi-day river tripping in this area (southeastern USA) on slower meandering rivers consisting of mostly moving flat water up to the occasional easy class II. They are paddling solo canoes in 14 to 16 foot lengths such as the Wenonah Argosy, Nova Craft Prospector 15, Bell Yellowstone, Silverbirch Firefly (too heavy imo), etc. I think it will help to know that I am 61 yes old, weigh 170 and am 5' 7" tall and starting to step back from whitewater kayaking although I still enjoy paddling easier class II - III rivers. I would likely kneel in faster waters, but would prefer to sit when fishing and would alternate otherwise. As a beginner solo canoeist that is planning to stay on easier water with the intention of fishing from it on both rivers and smaller lakes, I think I want some decent primary stability with enough maneuverability to navigate the type of rivers I mentioned above, yet stay under or close to 50 lbs if i can for ease of loading/unloading/portaging. I know there will be some scraping here and there in the shallow rocky shoals commonly found in this area, but major impacts are unlikely or at least uncommon. Hope that helps to clarify things a bit. What layups would be appropriate beyond royalex, tuff stuff, tuff weave, IXP, T-formex? I see others talking about blacklight, white gold, expedition kevlar, etc. Thanks in advance for any insights or even better yet, links to canoes for sale that fit the bill that are within a day's drive of Knoxville, TN. I am also headed to Minnesota mid-May. |
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justpaddlin |
My main comment to you is to be open to composite boats. You seem to be assuming that they are delicate. Outfitters use lightweight Kevlar boats for rentals (Swift Kevlar Fusion or Northstar Starlight) and those boats take way more abuse than yours will. I'm rougher on my boats than you plan to be and I don't own a Royalex or T-former or IXP boat because I don't want to deal with the weight and I don't need whitewater capability. There are a lot of boats that will work just fine for you and with some shopping you'll find one. I'd suggest that you ask about specific boats you find rather than ask folks to list models since there are dozens of models that would be great for you. I'll take a look online. Your area is decent for shopping and if nothing turns up quickly your upcoming trip to Minnesota should be very promising since you'll pass through great areas for shopping besides Minnesota. If you want to pass through SW Michigan you're welcome to try a couple of my solos if you like. I'd be curious to see how you like my Swift Keewaydin 15...it's got quite a bit of stability and even though it's lake oriented it's got plenty of maneuverability for anything but fast current. I'd also be curious about your reaction to a Northstar Trillium. It's a hot (super efficient) boat that you would fit perfectly and it's quite stable for a lower volume boat. If you could test paddle boats like Trillium, NW Solo, and Phoenix at a dealer and decide what you like then it would be easier to recommend the right used boat for you. Have you paddled your friend's Argosy? That boat has good primary stability so it would be good to know if it feels OK to you or not. |
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GunnyJC |
I really like the option to use a kayak paddle in more open water that these smaller prospector style solo canoes offer. Does anyone have firsthand experiences paddling the new NC P14 yet? None of these boats are inexpensive, but I have learned to save my pennies and buy what I want the first time around. It might be awhile, but that's OK, just gives me more time to shop around. That blue steel layup...mmm! |
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tomo |
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keth0601 |
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Blatz |
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Pinetree |
GunnyJC: "I am originally from Minnesota and most of my family still lives there, but I have been living in eastern Tennessee near Knoxville for 23 years now. I have been an avid whitewater kayaker for quite awhile, but at age 61 I am starting to slow down and smell the roses a bit more so to speak. Many of my friends are taking multi-day trips on easy moving water typically nothing over class I - II and they go all over the USA but mostly stick to the Southeast area for weekend to week-long trips. Pretty much all of them paddle solo, even when their significant others are along on the trip. I am considering buying a used solo canoe so that I can join them on their adventures, but I would also like for it to perform reasonably well on annual family trips to the BWCA where portaging is typical. FYI, I also own an inflatable cataraft for when we are on overnight trips with significant whitewater, but that thing is a slug if the water isn't moving much. I also love to fish so it is another factor to consider. " Do you want a pure solo canoe or something you can use as a tandem also? A pure solo for individual use I love my prism on Quetico trips etc. I don't think a hybrid that you can use as a tandem will perform even close to a solo canoe when used alone. |
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GunnyJC |
I am considering buying a used solo canoe so that I can join them on their adventures, but I would also like for it to perform reasonably well on annual family trips to the BWCA where portaging is typical. FYI, I also own an inflatable cataraft for when we are on overnight trips with significant whitewater, but that thing is a slug if the water isn't moving much. I also love to fish so it is another factor to consider. |
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billconner |
I'm considering it for northern forest canoe trail. |
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SouthernKevlar |
Blatz: "Look into a Northstar Phoenix " I second the Northstar Phoenix. It handles nicely and can carry a good solo load. |
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HighnDry |
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keth0601 |
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TCJET |
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AlexanderSupertramp |
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Jaywalker |
AlexanderSupertramp: "Northstar Phoenix IXP... BUT you can also get a NW Solo in IXP and that's a slightly bigger boat with a little more room for cargo, which is why I opted for the NW Solo."Northstar has some really good videos online where Bear explains the pros and cons of different hull shapes and materials. |
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sns |
It has some rocker and likely would suit OP's use case well. Build quality is really solid (probably equal to or even better than the other MN builders) and it paddles sweetly. |
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keth0601 |
I haven't beat around the IXP on my Phoenix enough to make a determination yet, but for sure royalex holds up much better if you're willing to deal with the weight. You could probably pick up a Wenonah Wilderness in RX or t-formex for a good price and it handles rapids surprisingly well. You could probably get it new for about the same price as most composites go used as well. |
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keth0601 |
If they happen to get a blem wilderness in t-formex I'd imagine it'll have a price that's hard to pass up. I actually purchased my prospector 15 t-formex there as a blem for less than $1k and the guy who I bought it from was great to work with. |
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Canoedad89 |
GunnyJC: "Many of my friends are taking multi-day trips on easy moving water typically nothing over Class I-II and they go all over the USA, mostly sticking to the Southeast area for weekend to week-long trips. " What canoes are your friends paddling? Will they let you test paddle them? Seems like a simple matter of getting the same and making it work for the occasional BWCA trip. |
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GunnyJC |
1. Northstar Phoenix in IXP - Paddling this was my first experience in a solo canoe and it felt a little unstable at rest especially when sitting, but felt better when actively paddling. It turns better and was more responsive than any of the other canoes that I have tried. That lack of primary stability has me concerned about trying to fish from it and the price tag is a bit too steep for me. 2: Nova Craft Fox 14 solo in fiberglass: Although this boat is wider and has less rocker, it felt more unstable and was harder to keep on track than any other canoe I tried...a definite no for me. 3. Nova Craft Prospector 15 in bluesteel: This canoe was wide...too wide? It was stable, turned reasonably well and would hold a ton of gear, but it is definitely affected by wind. This is a possibility, but not exactly what am looking for. Wenonah Argosy in tuffweave and also royalex: So far th Argosy is my favorite. It has the best primary stability of all the true solo canoes that I have tried so far. It turns better than any of the others except for the Phoenix and has decent speed as well. While I am still trying to find canoes to demo, I would buy a royalex version of the Argosy if I came across one in decent shape at a reasonable price. I would love to paddle a Northstar Solo or a Nova Craft Prospector 14 solo, but both of those are likely out of my price range. |
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sedges |
srt Any of the boats mentioned so far are going to be rare finds as used boats, Keep looking and be patent and they do come up. You may have to travel a good distance to get one. |
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AlexanderSupertramp |
GunnyJC: "A quick update on some canoes that I have recently demo'd: If you like all the things about the Phoenix other than stability, then I think you should at least paddle a Northwind Solo before ruling them out due to price, because you might be able to find a used one, even in IXP. It's everything the Phoenix is but more stable in all conditions. I've done a fair amount of fishing from mine and I've had it out in some really high winds without any worry of turning it over. Still turns pretty well for a 15.5' boat too. |
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chessie |
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Z4K |
So much to think about when buying a canoe, when all that really matters is whether it floats! |
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GunnyJC |
Pinetree: "Do you want a pure solo canoe or something you can use as a tandem also? I am looking for a pure solo boat that will perform well on meandering rivers that may include some easy whitewater (class I -II) and also perform reasonably well on BWCA trips...also solo. While I would love the lightweight of a composite canoe I don't think that is a reasonable choice due to the rocky nature of the rivers here. If it helps, I am 5'7" and weigh 170 lbs. |
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timf1981 |
Pinetree: "GunnyJC: "I am originally from Minnesota and most of my family still lives there, but I have been living in eastern Tennessee near Knoxville for 23 years now. I have been an avid whitewater kayaker for quite awhile, but at age 61 I am starting to slow down and smell the roses a bit more so to speak. Many of my friends are taking multi-day trips on easy moving water typically nothing over class I - II and they go all over the USA but mostly stick to the Southeast area for weekend to week-long trips. Pretty much all of them paddle solo, even when their significant others are along on the trip. I am considering buying a used solo canoe so that I can join them on their adventures, but I would also like for it to perform reasonably well on annual family trips to the BWCA where portaging is typical. FYI, I also own an inflatable cataraft for when we are on overnight trips with significant whitewater, but that thing is a slug if the water isn't moving much. I also love to fish so it is another factor to consider. " With good recommendations from Piragis outfitters i purchased the Prism last year. After paddling from Hook island to Cache Bay rangers station.I was more than willing to trade it on the spot for my mn3 taht i have done 5 solo trips in. In 4 days i never removed my butt from the seat pf the prism to reach for something or shift gear. Only to get out. I purcahsed a damaged mn2 to convert to a solo for htis year. Hopefully fast and stable and room for too much gear |