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Listening Point - General Discussion

Oh, that hurts, the sound of abuse of...

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Duane's Canoe Outfitters

Last Visit: 05/21/2013 06:58AM
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PINETREE

04/17/2012 07:55AM

...somebody dragging a canoe from Bat lake down to Gillis on the Rocky portage or any portage. I could hear clunking from a Royalex, then the sound of aluminum on the rocks. Soon, four people appeared dragging the canoes down to the lake. You could see scars on many of the portages between the lakes, never mind the scars on the rocks just under water. They will happen, just like the kid in the play ground, some of that just happens.

You knew they were rentals from a outfitter for no one would abuse their own canoe like that (would they?). That must hurt when their babies (canoes) come home with a few abnormal scratches.

Going back to the Bat-Gillis portage, you could see the trail of red particles from the Royalex and the shine of metal from the aluminum canoe.

You see this time and again, certain people abusing canoes and then you wonder and understand why outfitters have to replace canoes every few if not every year. I am sure there are a few stories of negligence and abuse out there.

There are always the scratches caused by normal wear and tear and hard use of the BWCA. Just look at my canoe. Heck, some of those scratches have fond memories of certain experiences. But some of it is well, I wouldn't do that (like drag a canoe or just throw it down on the rocks}.

Sig: All of us our Dreamers. Dreams are what started everything. We our asking ourselves a great question? all of us interested in wilderness preservation are asking...What kind of world do we want.?

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oldgentleman

04/17/2012 12:21PM

My MNII was a year old rental at Piragis when I bought it, and was in very good shape. In the 10 years I've had it it has gotten a LOT more scratches.

It's worst scar was from the crew of the Isle Royale Queen II.

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woodsandwater

04/17/2012 01:16PM

I've seen boats -- alum, royalex, KEVLAR -- dragged up and over rocks. Drives me nuts! Some people are just idiots the way they treat their gear.

Take care of your equipment and your equipment will take care of you!

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mwd1976

04/17/2012 02:13PM

I saw a group completely load up their rented kevlar canoes on a rock slab 10 feet from shore, then proceed to drag them fully loaded to the water. (we are talking four big packs per canoe) At this point one big guy got in front while the other guy shoved the canoe and his tripmate forward until he also go in. Then they did the little butt shuffle thing and pushed off with their paddles until they were finally afloat. It hurt to watch.

We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children -Chief Seattle

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RaisedByBears99

04/17/2012 03:40PM

Not bwca, saw two guys in their 30s (old enough to know better) dragging their grandfather's Yankee Girl Oldtown wood/canvas a mile in a ditch behind a 4-wheeler.

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OBX2Kayak

04/17/2012 04:00PM

An outfitter once showed me an aluminum rental canoe that was returned with a six inch round hole in the bottom surrounded by burn/scorch marks.

The renters claimed that it was a lightning strike. From the burn marks, it was pretty clear that they had started a charcoal fire on the bottom.

The outfitter said he had to just smile ... then mark his black book to make sure he never rented to that group again.

"I go because it irons out the wrinkles in my soul" -- Sigurd Olson

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RainGearRight

04/17/2012 04:02PM

quote RaisedByBears99: "Not bwca, saw two guys in their 30s (old enough to know better) dragging their grandfather's Yankee Girl Oldtown wood/canvas a mile in a ditch behind a 4-wheeler."
Stupidity has no age requirement.

There's always money in the banana stand.

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butthead

04/17/2012 04:18PM

Sept. 2010, PJ and I did Clearwater thru Pikes, back thru Pine, little green curlicues of Royalex marked the entire set of portage trails (across their full length).

butthead

“There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.” ? Frank Zappa

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Savage Voyageur

04/17/2012 05:28PM

I rented a Kevlar one time and the outfitter put a piece of duct tape on the bottom of the canoe front to back. He did this so he would know if his canoe was run a ground. We returned it tape intact.

"So many lakes, so little time."

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TeamTuna06

04/18/2012 12:09AM

quote Savage Voyageur: "I rented a Kevlar one time and the outfitter put a piece of duct tape on the bottom of the canoe front to back. He did this so he would know if his canoe was run a ground. We returned it tape intact. "
That's awesome...sometimes the simplest ideas are the best ones.

"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there’d be a shortage of fishing poles." -Doug Larson

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RaisedByBears99

04/18/2012 02:15AM

Not Quite the same but:

Fourtown Lake, party camped on an open site, rented (brand new) kevlar. Propped canoe up next to campfire as a wind break, not tied down. Wind took canoe and wrapped it around a tree. Kevlar was all right - aluminum gunwales - not so much.

Talked to me at length about it, "I can't be held responsible for something the wind does, etc."

What can you say?

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Jackfish

Moderator

04/20/2012 08:42AM

quote RaisedByBears99: "Talked to me at length about it, "I can't be held responsible for something the wind does, etc."

What can you say?"
If I were an outfitter, I'd say, "you'll be seeing a charge on your credit card for..."

Morons.

It's only a spot on the map... until you go there.

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OneMatch

04/20/2012 11:18AM

quote Jackfish: "quote RaisedByBears99: "Talked to me at length about it, "I can't be held responsible for something the wind does, etc."

What can you say?"
If I were an outfitter, I'd say, "you'll be seeing a charge on your credit card for..."

Morons."
Jackfish, it almost read "you'll be seeing a charge on your credit cards for being morons"!

The damage to me is to walk these portages and seeing the blue, green and red paint on the rocks along the way. Not exactly "leave no trace".

We all have to believe in something. I believe I'll go paddle.

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ozarkpaddler

04/20/2012 11:31AM

Bought a Bell Flashfire this spring that looked like it had been dragged behind a car, LITERALLY. I have patched, and patched, and patched some more. Replaced gunnels and decks and it's gone from BUTT UGLY to merily ugly (LOL)! Accidents happen, but this was obviously abused. Kinda makes you sick when you see that!
Abused Flashfire

"Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." Mark Twain

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Jackfish

Moderator

04/20/2012 12:19PM

quote OneMatch: "Jackfish, it almost read "you'll be seeing a charge on your credit cards for being morons"!"
LOL... it crossed my mind before I hit the submit button. I guess if the shoe fits... :)

It's only a spot on the map... until you go there.

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PINETREE

04/20/2012 02:16PM

You see people get into like a kevlar canoe with 1 foot of it in the water and 16 feet on rocks sitting in the air. Canoe fully loaded with 100+ pounds of gear and one individual already in the canoe. and the other individual pushing like heck on the canoe dragging it on the rocks trying to get it in the water without getting wet.

Sometimes the ribbons of blue and red material on the rocks are pretty darn long.

Sig: All of us our Dreamers. Dreams are what started everything. We our asking ourselves a great question? all of us interested in wilderness preservation are asking...What kind of world do we want.?

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yellowcanoe

04/20/2012 02:24PM

Once in Canada I saw a guy solo dragging a Ram X Coleman on a very rocky portage. He must have thought the boat invincible as he was not near any access point.

He said it was the only way he could get his gear over. He could not pick up the canoe empty.

He had two ropes and a harness system.

I cringed but otherwise minded my own business. :)

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Bill Tea

04/20/2012 08:36PM

My last trip partner and I were making the portages from Lake 4 to Hudson and on the last one I decided to pull over the rocks instead of taking the very rocky, but short, trail. So easy compared to the rock garden on the other side(at least for me). My partner followed me in a rented Wenonah Kevlar and got stuck in about ankle deep water on a submerged rock. I called to him to get out of the boat and push it into a bit deeper water, but he insisted on rocking it back and forth trying to free the boat, which he finally did. I just cringed with the sound of the boat scraping over the rocks & was glad we had that place to ourselves at that moment. That was pretty much his MO with everything on that trip. "Experienced tripper", uh, don't think so.

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greenydd

04/20/2012 10:02PM

tina and i were at the end of a portage on one trip and heard a couple kids coming up the trail. the first one was carrying an old town...about 65 lbs we figured. he set it down nice and easy. the next kid was carrying a kevlar...we all know how light they are right? this kid was about 6 feet tall. he lifted that canoe off his shoulders, gave it a little shove and just dropped it from his shoulders to the ground! we both cringed when it hit.

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Mongo65

04/21/2012 07:43AM

A couple of years back when my son and I were going from Sawbill to Alton we were behind a group at the end of the portage. Instead of lift the nice MN II, they just dragged it the last 4-6 feet. I almost went off but held it together.

After they had left, I mentioned it to my son. His response is that people just don't care when they don't own the item. An unfortunate but true point in this case but not all.

Sit back, relax, have a home brew.

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Scout64

04/21/2012 09:01AM

quote ozarkpaddler: "Bought a Bell Flashfire this spring that looked like it had been dragged behind a car, LITERALLY. I have patched, and patched, and patched some more. Replaced gunnels and decks and it's gone from BUTT UGLY to merily ugly (LOL)! Accidents happen, but this was obviously abused. Kinda makes you sick when you see that!
Abused Flashfire "

Nice job fixing it up!

"Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit."

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Hawbakers

04/21/2012 09:27AM

quote Scout64: "quote ozarkpaddler: "Bought a Bell Flashfire this spring that looked like it had been dragged behind a car, LITERALLY. I have patched, and patched, and patched some more. Replaced gunnels and decks and it's gone from BUTT UGLY to merily ugly (LOL)! Accidents happen, but this was obviously abused. Kinda makes you sick when you see that!
Abused Flashfire "

Nice job fixing it up!"

Agreed! Good work, ozaekpaddler!

"Far more interesting than the chase itself is the observation, the study of the life histories of the strange and wonderful creatures of the wilderness." President Theodore Roosevelt

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wetcanoedog

04/21/2012 02:55PM

i found the portage to Lower Pauness on my first trip in the early 80's by the sound of aluminum canoes being bashed onto the rocks.
boommm,boommmm....ah,it's over there---

it's just a level trail thru the woods.

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VoyageurNorth

04/23/2012 07:53PM

Guess this is a good time to show what was left of one of our Wenonah Minnesota 4 canoes after going down (& on purpose) Rebecca Falls (near McAcree/Bottle in Quetico)

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RainGearRight

04/23/2012 08:06PM

quote VoyageurNorth: "

Guess this is a good time to show what was left of one of our Wenonah Minnesota 4 canoes after going down (& on purpose) Rebecca Falls (near McAcree/Bottle in Quetico)"

Yikes! A little duct tape........

There's always money in the banana stand.

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ozarkpaddler

04/23/2012 08:12PM

quote Hawbakers: "quote Scout64: "quote ozarkpaddler: "Bought a Bell Flashfire this spring that looked like it had been dragged behind a car, LITERALLY. I have patched, and patched, and patched some more. Replaced gunnels and decks and it's gone from BUTT UGLY to merily ugly (LOL)! Accidents happen, but this was obviously abused. Kinda makes you sick when you see that!
Abused Flashfire "
Nice job fixing it up!"
Agreed! Good work, ozaekpaddler!"

Thanks, but I'm not NEARLY as good as some of those on this board. It's ugly, but I believe it should float (LOL)! It's loaded on the truck and my wife will try it out tomorrow. Wish me luck!

"Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." Mark Twain

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Beaverjack

04/23/2012 08:12PM

All thoughts of buying a rental are now out of my mind forever.

Tony

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VoyageurNorth

04/23/2012 08:14PM

Most people treat our rental canoes very well. It's just a few that don't. Some injure them by accident and some don't care if they treat them badly (guess they have a large credit card allowance!)

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walllee

04/23/2012 08:46PM

Seen a young man , maybe 18 or 20 years old get to the end of the portage and throw the canoe like a shot put. It was aluminium and ended up with a huge dent in the bottom. Im sure it made his paddeling much harder the rest of the trip. It was a rental that was pretty new.

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