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burgydancer

03/17/2012 04:49PM

As I am dreaming about planned trips to the BWCA this summer I realize I am sitting in the Twin Cities with a short sleeved shirt in lovely, but unusual 70 degree weather in March. I was wondering. Anyone have any bets as to if and when there will be an open fire ban in the BWCA this summer?

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tonyyarusso

03/17/2012 05:14PM

If? Without a question. When? No idea. If there's going to be a pool I guess I'll say June 17th.

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maxxbhp

03/17/2012 06:03PM

I'd apreciate it if we could bump that to about the 20th

"Old Nashville still has a song and dance, and the Florida girls still wear no underpants. And we all get drunk at the football game, yeh the new south, thank God is still the same" Hank Williams, jr

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gutmon

03/17/2012 06:13PM

Unless something changes, I'm guessing May 1st or even earlier. It's scary dry.

"The trouble with the world isn't that people know too little, but that they know so much that just ain't so." Mark Twain

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kanoes

03/17/2012 06:38PM

plan on it

i think bigfoot is blurry. (mitch hedberg)

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RainGearRight

03/17/2012 06:48PM

I would be wiling to bet a box of Schells that there will be more fire ban days than not from May to October.

There's always money in the banana stand.

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03/17/2012 08:37PM

i am under the impression that snf is CURRENTLY under a fire ban-which would cover the bwca. please show me that i am wrong-seriously-i hope i am wrong-but sadly i don't think i am. but if we need a fire ban we need a fire ban-less time collecting firewood means more time for fishing/traveling/stargazing.
tg

that's how I ro'

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Chilly

03/18/2012 12:47AM

Rivers rise 10 times faster then they fall so I'd say the jet stream will have more to say then i could about this good question.

"Now days these kids take out everything: radar, sonar, electric toothbrushs" Quint

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mooseplums

03/18/2012 05:05AM

As of right now, I would agree with Kanoes...plan on it. However, Mother nature has a way of changing things up quickly. With the dry conditions this late summer, fall and winter, I'd say we"re overdue, and the flood gates could open..... changing everything.

"I am haunted by waters"~Norman Maclean "A River Runs Through It"

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Savage Voyageur

03/18/2012 05:11AM

I think we need OneMatch to start a rain dance song. I will plan on a fire ban and hope for the best.

"So many lakes, so little time."

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emptynest56

03/18/2012 05:37AM

Rain is coming. Bet on it. For all of MN.

"Did you bring the coffee?" "No. I thought you were."

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maxxbhp

03/18/2012 05:57AM

As they say in Spinal Tap, "Can I raise a practical question at this point?" If a fire ban starts 3 days after you go in, how do you find out? I guess you could just use that as an excuse, but that's sorta not the point, is it

"Old Nashville still has a song and dance, and the Florida girls still wear no underpants. And we all get drunk at the football game, yeh the new south, thank God is still the same" Hank Williams, jr

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Spartan2

03/18/2012 07:19AM

You don't know, and you assess the conditions. If you have a fire you are VERY careful. And, if a ranger stops by and tells you there is a fire ban they will write it on your permit. At that point, you will be glad that you brought your stove along. :-)

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mr.barley

03/18/2012 08:32AM

quote RainGearRight: "I would be wiling to bet a box of Schells that there will be more fire ban days than not from May to October." I guess I would have to agree with you, but never risk a box of Schell's on it.

Because I'm wearing one and I just did....

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analyzer

03/18/2012 10:45AM

After the last couple fires, there's not much left to burn.

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Mustangt125

03/18/2012 12:09PM

I'll definitely be having a fire every day

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Ho Ho

03/18/2012 01:32PM

There should be a fire ban on right now. It's in the 70s, windy and dry. The Ham Lake fire started in conditions like this (but cooler) pre-season. Why wait?

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schweady

03/18/2012 01:49PM

quote Ho Ho: "There should be a fire ban on right now. It's in the 70s, windy and dry. The Ham Lake fire started in conditions like this (but cooler) pre-season. Why wait?"
Here is what it says on SNF's Alerts & Notices page:

"CAMPFIRE RESTRICTIONS IN EFFECT!
Effective 12:01 am, Friday, October 7, 2011, building, maintaining, attending or using a fire, campfire, charcoal fire or wood-burning stove is prohibited anywhere on national forest lands within the boundaries of the Chippewa NationalForest and Superior National Forest . The only exception is within constructed steel fire grates provided by the Forest Service at fee-for-use campgrounds. Gas or propane camp stoves may be used anywhere on the national forests.
Some areas of the Forest remain closed to public use."

I'm going to assume that BWCAW sites are not "fee-for-use campgrounds" and that they are therefore under the ban which is currently in effect. ???

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

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PlumberDave

03/18/2012 03:05PM

No doubt there will be a ban. I just hope its off by the end of August.
I have only been in the BWCA one time when there was a ban. Been pretty lucky I guess.

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Corsair

03/18/2012 03:06PM

I would have to agree, more likely than not.

"Pack lightly, Tread lightly"

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bwcadan

03/18/2012 04:42PM

Low water levels affect me more than fire bans. Carp lake as an example in the Q. Not so many fires when early to bed and after cooking over stove.

the greatest come backs are reserved for those with the greatest deficits.

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oldgentleman

03/18/2012 04:50PM

Ive been there with fire bans a couple times. It's not that big of a deal. I just watched the stars more.

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tom m

03/18/2012 06:13PM

did a trip in mid May one year when the fire ban was in Place,it was cool at times and cold the rest of the time, tom

TOM

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03/18/2012 08:32PM

quote schweady: "quote Ho Ho: "There should be a fire ban on right now. It's in the 70s, windy and dry. The Ham Lake fire started in conditions like this (but cooler) pre-season. Why wait?"
Here is what it says on SNF's Alerts & Notices page:

"CAMPFIRE RESTRICTIONS IN EFFECT!
Effective 12:01 am, Friday, October 7, 2011, building, maintaining, attending or using a fire, campfire, charcoal fire or wood-burning stove is prohibited anywhere on national forest lands within the boundaries of the Chippewa NationalForest and Superior National Forest . The only exception is within constructed steel fire grates provided by the Forest Service at fee-for-use campgrounds. Gas or propane camp stoves may be used anywhere on the national forests.
Some areas of the Forest remain closed to public use."

I'm going to assume that BWCAW sites are not "fee-for-use campgrounds" and that they are therefore under the ban which is currently in effect. ???
"

schweady-i'm glad i'm not the only one coming to this conclusion. i'm calling a ranger station tomorrow to clarify but i have mentioned this in at least two threads now and my comments seem to have fallen on deaf ears.

that's how I ro'

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03/19/2012 07:55AM

i just spoke with folks at SNF and at the kawishiwi ranger station. currently there is NOT a fire ban in place. i suggested the snf website be updated/clarified. that being said it is bone dry up there and a fire ban could be enacted at any time. fire bans should be posted at entry points if this changes. definitely use caution if you are planning a campfire. it is historically dry. to quote maggie at kawishiwi we need 30 days and 30 nights of rain. some of the small rivers (little isabella, island, bog creek) are as low as she has ever seen them and she grew up in isabella.
tg

that's how I ro'

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Mustangt125

03/19/2012 08:12AM

I am glad there's not one now and hopefully there isn't when I head north.

Hopefully it starts raining up there soon. Don't the water levels benefit from snow meltoff at all?

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schweady

03/19/2012 09:03AM

Thanks, tg.

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

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03/19/2012 10:19AM

mustang-there is little to no snow left on the ground around ely so expecting little additional meltoff.

that's how I ro'

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schweady

03/19/2012 02:12PM

A gorgeous steady hard rain started just now in Perham, with a bit of thunder for good measure. Got completely soaked running out to put up the rain gauge. Hope it lasts all week.

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

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wildernessfan2

03/19/2012 03:12PM

There is hope! Drought Forecast

Some good rain moving northward ATM.

Mpls Radar

Freshwater is delicious! Saltwater not so much..

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Ho Ho

03/19/2012 03:21PM

I was pretty sure that there was no fire ban in effect all winter, I think we would have heard about that up here. I hope they do put one in effect ASAP until we get some serious rain. Mid-70s sunny and windy in Ely right now . . .

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wildernessfan2

03/19/2012 03:26PM

Wow record highs are getting blown AWAY!

Duluth smashes 100 year old record

Minneapolis set records 8 of the last ten days!

Mpls was way warmer the Phoenix today!

Freshwater is delicious! Saltwater not so much..

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kanoes

03/19/2012 03:37PM

im from the twin cities.

i love this, yet in a way i dont. its just way too strange.

i think bigfoot is blurry. (mitch hedberg)

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bojibob

03/19/2012 03:59PM

2012....the world is ending

"One inch on the map ~ is not one inch on the ground"

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kanoes

03/19/2012 04:05PM

quote bojibob: "2012....the world is ending"
rob? its going to suck on your august trip when the highs hit 130.

i think bigfoot is blurry. (mitch hedberg)

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Frenchy19

03/20/2012 05:12AM

Link below is from DNR website yesterday. A burning restriction goes into effect for much of Central and Northern MN, but campfires are/will be still allowed...

MN 3/26 Burning Restrictions

"He hits from both sides of the plate. He’s amphibious." Yogi Berra

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mocha

03/20/2012 07:11AM

part of the issue is a restriction for the BW has to come from washington USFS office...they don't like to put on restrictions...maybe they think people won't go to the BW, pay fees, if they can't have a campfire...there are folks that feel this way, but i think the majority of people would be willing to not have a fire as long as they could still take a canoe trip. i think there was a summer the BW was closed due to fires...i could be wrong

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612er

03/20/2012 07:56AM

This weekend I was at my cabin just southwest of the BWCA. The last patches of snow were melting away but everything was extremely dry already. I burned slash from a tree fall and had to keep my watering can nearby to keep the fire from creeping out of the fire ring. Conditions are already ripe for big fires up there.

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ryebread26

03/20/2012 09:31AM

if there is a fire ban in mid may its going to really suck. i finally got my trip planed after not being there seince i was young 10+ years ago. it wont completly ruin my trip but i wont enjoy it like i could with a campfire.

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friman001

03/20/2012 02:26PM

agree...I wouldn't cancel a trip or anything crazy like that, but I will be missing a fire the entire time. I can just picture myself now, sunset rolls around and I will just be staring at the empty fire grate.

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Frenchy19

03/20/2012 02:41PM

quote friman001: "agree...I wouldn't cancel a trip or anything crazy like that, but I will be missing a fire the entire time. I can just picture myself now, sunset rolls around and I will just be staring at the empty fire grate."

That's when you go out fishing:)

"He hits from both sides of the plate. He’s amphibious." Yogi Berra

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bhouse46

03/20/2012 06:03PM

I am just getting back into BWCA living and hope to make two trips this year. A fire is part of the trip, but like others I will enjoy anyway. As I think about it I can remember One Match and "Too Tired to
Start a Fire".

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friman001

03/20/2012 07:51PM

quote Frenchy19: "quote friman001: "agree...I wouldn't cancel a trip or anything crazy like that, but I will be missing a fire the entire time. I can just picture myself now, sunset rolls around and I will just be staring at the empty fire grate."

That's when you go out fishing:)"

Good point!

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steve5401

03/22/2012 01:51PM

burning bans are going march 26 for a good junk of the state. The forest service was quoted as early as last week that this year is setting up to be one of the most dangerous fire conditions that they have seen in the last 100 yrs. There have been unconfirmed reports of residents in cook county that last years fire was still smoldering under the light snow pack that we received this year.

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emptynest56

03/23/2012 09:46AM

This is the NWS radar estimate of rain in last 24 hours.
Looks like more rain headed for the area Monday and Tuesday. Call me an blind optimist, but maybe the only fire ban we'll see is the practical difficulty of lighting totally soaked wood. Climate changes wildly in NE MN and has since recorded time. Doppler radar est. of precip Agreed, rivers and streams take time to refill, but a total turnabout is not unheard of. Texas was having one of the meanest droughts on record this time last year, and now have flooding in areas like Dallas.

"Did you bring the coffee?" "No. I thought you were."

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TeamTuna06

03/25/2012 01:59PM

You guys up north get any rain this weekend?

"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there’d be a shortage of fishing poles." -Doug Larson

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Mustangt125

03/26/2012 02:20PM

quote wildernessfan2: "There is hope! Drought Forecast

Some good rain moving northward ATM.

Mpls Radar "

Does this map get updated at all? Hopefully they're right.

Any more rain up there the past week?

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schweady

03/29/2012 01:02PM

Very nice dowsing in Perham right now. Took my rain gauge inside for fear of freezing (again), but must be .5 inch so far. Hoping some of this moves up to land on the Horse River watershed...

You know, I used to laugh at my dad -- and then my father-in-law -- about their obsession with talking about the weather, and especially their continual theme on the need for rain. We become our parents... :)

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

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Mustangt125

03/29/2012 01:06PM

Nice storm cell heading toward the BW right now.

http://www.wunderground.com/US/Region/Midwest/Radar.html

Keep it comin down

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CrookedPaddler1

03/29/2012 01:15PM

Here is the deal with a fire ban. You could have a spring with so much rain and snow melt that there is no way you can think about starting a fire! The two weeks of 80 and wind -- and the forest is tinder dry! You just got to wait and see what happens. I have seen dry springs that turn into wet summers and dry junes turn into soaking july's and august. So just wait and see what happens!

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schweady

03/29/2012 03:03PM

I guess I'm more interested in the effect that spring and summer rains have on the navigability of several rivers. Wrong thread, I guess. My bad.

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

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nctry

03/29/2012 08:24PM

quote CrookedPaddler1: "Here is the deal with a fire ban. You could have a spring with so much rain and snow melt that there is no way you can think about starting a fire! The two weeks of 80 and wind -- and the forest is tinder dry! You just got to wait and see what happens. I have seen dry springs that turn into wet summers and dry junes turn into soaking july's and august. So just wait and see what happens!
"

Right on! I think most of the concern was the lack of snow this winter and how dry the spring was shaping up to be. But she's raining and sleeting pretty good right now where I live just west of the BW, so things are looking up! :) There is always hope!

Nctry Ben

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pdidy

03/29/2012 09:18PM

Just looked at the radar and looks like they are getting snow and sleet. I will worry about a fire ban a week before I go in. Can't control the weather.

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joh01792

04/15/2012 08:27PM

Lots of rain today and should last through the night

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fadersup

04/15/2012 09:29PM

I'm praying for rain just like everybody else. So much more at stake than a BWCA fire ban. I don't want to preach believe me, but our recreation is a distant second to the families that grow our food. If it's too dry to burn, just fish 'til dark, go to sleep and wake up early to fish. I love a good campfire like almost nothing else but it's definitely not a deal-breaker. So, do a little rain dance and get a few vegetables from somebody you know.

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TeamTuna06

04/15/2012 10:48PM

quote fadersup: "I'm praying for rain just like everybody else. So much more at stake than a BWCA fire ban. I don't want to preach believe me, but our recreation is a distant second to the families that grow our food. If it's too dry to burn, just fish 'til dark, go to sleep and wake up early to fish. I love a good campfire like almost nothing else but it's definitely not a deal-breaker. So, do a little rain dance and get a few vegetables from somebody you know. "

Amen. Really looking forward to farmers market season...

"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there’d be a shortage of fishing poles." -Doug Larson

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RaisedByBears99

04/16/2012 03:03AM

Been steady rain all night on the North Shore. Be nice to get a week of this. It has been so dry.

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carmike

04/16/2012 01:18PM

quote RaisedByBears99: "
Been steady rain all night on the North Shore. Be nice to get a week of this. It has been so dry."

+1

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Mustangt125

05/01/2012 01:06PM

Did all that snow help at all with the conditions?

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UncleMoose

05/01/2012 01:09PM

quote Mustangt125: "Did all that snow help at all with the conditions?"

Yes! Rivers and creeks are flowing strong and some lake levels are better (though still not high or perhaps even normal for this time of year). It's been generally wet for a while now. The down side is some flooded portages in areas, but that will fix itself soon enough. Can't complain about April in terms of precipitation.

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GeoFisher

05/01/2012 08:39PM

quote UncleMoose: "quote Mustangt125: "Did all that snow help at all with the conditions?"

Yes! Rivers and creeks are flowing strong and some lake levels are better (though still not high or perhaps even normal for this time of year). It's been generally wet for a while now. The down side is some flooded portages in areas, but that will fix itself soon enough. Can't complain about April in terms of precipitation.
"

Have you been on the horse up towards crooked.....really worried a bout levels.......

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UncleMoose

05/01/2012 09:20PM

quote GeoFisher: "Have you been on the horse up towards crooked.....really worried a bout levels......."

No, but I should be passing through there mid-June. From what I've heard from others, however, Horse River has been generally ok through these dry times. You might have a fourth portage and a few dam lift-overs, but nothing too serious.

If things go dry again, I'd be more worried about Stuart, Oyster and Nina Moose Rivers. When I went through Oyster and Nina Moose last fall, levels were so low you needed to walk your canoe down long sections of unpaddleable muck.

When are you planning to go along the Horse?

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schweady

05/01/2012 10:01PM

quote UncleMoose: "When are you planning to go along the Horse?"
Your report gives me some optimism for our day trip plans from a base camp on Horse Lake up to LB Falls and the pictos in mid-August. Here's hoping.

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

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Mustangt125

05/02/2012 09:21AM

quote schweady: "quote UncleMoose: "When are you planning to go along the Horse?"
Your report gives me some optimism for our day trip plans from a base camp on Horse Lake up to LB Falls and the pictos in mid-August. Here's hoping.
"

I know it's a tad OT but where are the LB falls? We'll be near Horse Lake in June and I'd love to see some falls and pictos.

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RaisedByBears99

05/02/2012 09:30AM

quote Mustangt125: "quote schweady: "quote UncleMoose: "When are you planning to go along the Horse?"
Your report gives me some optimism for our day trip plans from a base camp on Horse Lake up to LB Falls and the pictos in mid-August. Here's hoping.
"

I know it's a tad OT but where are the LB falls? We'll be near Horse Lake in June and I'd love to see some falls and pictos."

Lower Basswood Falls is on the other (north) end of the Horse River. Horse Lake is on the (more or less) south end of the Horse River.

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UncleMoose

05/02/2012 09:35AM

quote Mustangt125: "I know it's a tad OT but where are the LB falls? We'll be near Horse Lake in June and I'd love to see some falls and pictos."

From Horse Lake, paddle down the Horse River to the border, then take a left (head west). Lower Basswood Falls is at the portage immediately to your left after you exit the river. The pictographs (a particularly nice set) is about 1.5 miles further north after the falls on Crooked. They are scattered about the iconic Crooked Lake cliffs on the US side.

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Mustangt125

05/02/2012 10:32AM

quote UncleMoose: "quote Mustangt125: "I know it's a tad OT but where are the LB falls? We'll be near Horse Lake in June and I'd love to see some falls and pictos."

From Horse Lake, paddle down the Horse River to the border, then take a left (head west). Lower Basswood Falls is at the portage immediately to your left after you exit the river. The pictographs (a particularly nice set) is about 1.5 miles further north after the falls on Crooked. They are scattered about the iconic Crooked Lake cliffs on the US side.
"

That sounds like an awful long and hard to do daytrip from the Horse Lake area...

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schweady

05/02/2012 10:47AM

quote Mustangt125: "quote UncleMoose: "quote Mustangt125: "I know it's a tad OT but where are the LB falls? We'll be near Horse Lake in June and I'd love to see some falls and pictos."

From Horse Lake, paddle down the Horse River to the border, then take a left (head west). Lower Basswood Falls is at the portage immediately to your left after you exit the river. The pictographs (a particularly nice set) is about 1.5 miles further north after the falls on Crooked. They are scattered about the iconic Crooked Lake cliffs on the US side.
"

That sounds like an awful long and hard to do daytrip from the Horse Lake area..."
Not really. Maybe 6-6.5 miles from the lake to the pictos. Particularly low water on the Horse River does have the potential of slowing one down quite a bit, however.

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

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burgydancer

05/02/2012 01:43PM

Thanks for all the responses and helpful insights. I just spoke to the Sawtooth Outfitters in Tofte yesterday and they said that the water levels are still pretty low, but they have been starting to get more rain. They doubt it will catch up enough to get to normal and suspect there will still be fire bans this year. They also said no bans have been put out yet.

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tonyyarusso

05/18/2012 02:47PM

Just got word that beginning May 19th (tomorrow), fires will be restricted to between 7PM and midnight.

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MapleGroveEyes

05/18/2012 03:25PM

Where did you read about the fire ban? I can't find it anywhere! I am interested because my groups heads up the Gunflint trail next Thursday. Thanks!

"The best way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly."

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MapleGroveEyes

05/18/2012 03:28PM

Nevermind, found the Source!

"The best way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly."

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tonyyarusso

05/18/2012 03:53PM

Twitter :)

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schweady

05/18/2012 07:11PM

Why wait for some Twit to let you know?
Minnesota Incident Command System
Third one down at the moment under "What's New?".

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

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LazyLefty

05/19/2012 08:33AM

7pm-midnight will not cramp my style any. It's weird because we rarely have fires when allowed and don't miss them much. When there is a ban though we really think about how we wanted one. Is that a grass is always green thing or what? haha

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friman001

05/19/2012 10:51AM

quote tonyyarusso: "Just got word that beginning May 19th (tomorrow), fires will be restricted to between 7PM and midnight."

I have never been in the BW during a fire ban. Is this how it usually works, you can still have fire during a certain time, 7-12am? I am fine with that! It is the thought of no fires at all that gets me.....

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RainGearRight

05/19/2012 11:02AM

This is just a restriction. Durning a ban no fires of any kind at any time. Stoves are always allowed.

There's always money in the banana stand.

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friman001

05/19/2012 11:36AM

ah, understood

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cdklarson

05/23/2012 12:09PM

Just heard the fire restrictions have been lifted. This is great news as our group heads up on Saturday

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griswold

05/23/2012 12:39PM

This is wonderful news being that we're heading out Sunday!

Generally speaking, a howling wilderness does not howl: it is the imagination of the traveler that does the howling.~Thoreau

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schweady

05/23/2012 01:09PM

Excellent news, indeed.
Here is a spot to get such news first-hand.
Be careful out there.

"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra

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