*Monday morning QB's need not reply, hindsight is 20/20 and we have learned a lot from this*

This was our fourth year making the trek up north to enjoy the majestic beauty that is the BWCA. Our trip was planned to be a week long.

We have never hung our packs, we have never had any bear issues.

We were on Lake Four camping on the north side. Burn area all around us, so very limited options for actually hanging packs if we were so inclined.

We store our food packs under our canoes, the idea was to do this so we could hear the canoe moving if any bears decide to get curious.

The real story starts at around 2:30 AM on Sept 27th. I wake up to my equipment pack moving around and hearing some footsteps outside our tent. Then I hear the canoe moving, my tent partner wakes up at the same time and we sit and listen again to make sure we're hearing things right. At this point we hear our other friends who are staying approximate 40 feet away from us. We hear them talking, we get out of our tents and gather around the fire pit and discuss what we heard, the food pack has clearly been messed with, it's almost out from underneath the canoe.

We quickly get a fire going, scan the perimeter of the camp and quickly realize there are three sets of eyes around our camp. *Intensity levels rise*
We start to yell, make noise - Everything we heard would be a great deterrent for bears.

The creatures just stand strong and are monitoring us. As I'm banging on the canoe making as much noise as I can the guys are up top around the fire and one of them says "You should probably get up here"

When I get "up there" there is a large black bear approximate 15 feet from the fire grate staring at the four of us. We're yelling, throwing sticks/rocks trying to scare it off. It stands strong and we have a showdown for what felt like 15 seconds but was probably 5. It then goes back into the woods quite leisurely.

It then re-appears down by the canoe on a side path and is grabbing our secondary food pack. One of my buddies throws a softball size rock near the bear and makes clear contact with it in the head/neck area. You would think he threw a popcorn ball with how the bear reacted. Was not phased in the least. The bear drags this pack into the woods

*things calm down a bit*

About 20 minutes later, we're still seeing eyes on the perimeter of the camp, only two eyes this time though.

Then all of a sudden I look down near the canoe and there is a bear 10 feet from me making it's way to the main food pack. I was amazed at how sneaky these things are.
*Pucker up*

Yelling, rock/stick throwing begins again. No reaction, quickly this bear has our food pack and we can hear it being dragged through the woods, material ripping. Night 1, all food gone.

*We have no food in the camp.*

20 minutes later I spot the bear again making its way toward us along the shoreline. We don't really know what to do at this point since we have nothing to offer and they are converging on us again. We decide to get into the canoes and go out and sit in the water until sunrise. We float around for about 2 hours going over what happened, what we should have done. Quite cold. Tired.

We pack up all our gear and head back into Ely.

*Queue “Goodbye My Lover” by James Blunt*

We watch the Vikings at the Ely Steakhouse. Going on almost no sleep after a very intense night. Feeling quite delirious. As we are paddling out we run into two other groups that had a very similar experience. It sounded like the same group of bears.

We decide to stay at Fall Lake for a few days to salvage some sort of a camping trip.

We were not able to recover any of the packs. We figured we lost around $1,000 as a group. Damn bears.

I was shocked with how these bears reacted. I was working under the impression that bears were quite easily scared. These bears couldn't be bothered and I have a sneaking suspicion they were well trained in the art of pack stealing.

The entire night is fun to think about and discuss now. But in the moment I was quite terrified. I suspect if we ever have another run in it won't be nearly as intense. But maybe not.

This isn't an anti-bear post, this is just a story that I wanted to share.

Things we plan to change next year packing food in blue barrels. Bear mace and possibly a pistol (Overboard). But I think over correcting after a situation like this is probably quite normal.

Already looking forward to planning our 2016 Trip.

Suggestions/admonitions will abound here. I'm just glad you're okay.

I think you're on the right track with the barrels. Under a canoe is a bad spot, but I guess you know that by now. No sense attracting a bear to mess with your most important piece of equipment. A better critter alarm might involve stacking metal pots and pans on the packs, but still not exactly an ideal setup. Pepper spray? Maybe, but these were apparently some pretty experienced and determined animals.

Looking forward to hearing your 2016 stories.

Call the Forest Service if you haven't already, those bears are likely a nuisance and should be taken care of. If they aren't scared they need to be dealt with. And yes use bear barrels. Great story though! As they say in Lake Wobegon it could always be worse.

I would have thrown the main food pack in the canoe and got the heck out of there right after the bear walked off with the secondary pack. You had 20 minutes to do it! Get everything you can into the canoe, head for another site, repack, maybe head for another lake. Or was that not possible in your situation?

As we floated waiting for the sunrise we thought about all the things we did wrong and what we should have done. I guess in the heat of the moment we made mistakes. We've exhausted what if's and what we should have done. It was our first bear experience.

We did not call the Forest Service, we did inform our Outfitter.

I am surprised that 4 people yelling, making noise, throwing sticks and stones didn't scare the bears off. From the bear encounters I've read on this forum, that seems to work most of the time.

Your experience with these determined bears is why I feel it is important to be prepared for any eventuality with respect to bear encounters.

From my point of view, there are several layers of defense that apply in these situations.

First, is to keep a clean camp to minimize attracting bears to your site in the first place.

Second, is to use some method of securing your food. The black bears in the BWCA are after your food, not you. Hanging, stashing away from camp, electric bear fences, bear vaults, bear barrels are good examples.

Third, is to use physical defensive measures when the first 2 options don't work. These defensive measures are incremental starting with making noise. If that doesn't scare the bear away, throw rocks and sticks at the animal to let it know you do not want it around.

As your story attests, noise and throwing sticks and stones at the bears didn't scare them away. I bring a high quality pepper spray that would be my next defensive measure to protect my food. I can't imagine any bear hanging around after receiving a snout full of pepper spray.

Someone in my group always has a firearm along. This would always be a last resort.

Fortunately, we've never had a bear encounter in the BWCA. The first 2 precautions must be working but we are always prepared to use physical defensive measures. Having to cut my trip short because a bear got my food is not an option.

Bum deal......especially first night out. We got clipped once but fortunately for us it was our last night.

No Monday morning quarterbacking but a few suggestions for the future. First educate yourself concerning your opponent. Read "Bear attacks, causes and avoidance" and you will understand bears and what makes them tick to a far greater degree. The info provided will help you with your food decisions.

Blue barrels are not bear proof and a determined bear can have their way with them.

Spray can be helpful but I wouldn't depend on it as a foolproof deterrent to solve a bear after food. The effects may last only a few minutes and the bear may come back. I prefer mace as a safeguard and last resort for personal protection.

I have read where throwing large rocks may actually be counterproductive. Mr bear got very irate and started popping its teeth......a sure sign of a deteriorating situation.

For your sake and the Bears (they may have to be destroyed) they must not get your food to begin with. From my vantage point that means hanging or stashing. I stash but I do it in an odor free method. All containers are airtight......I also employ bear vaults and ursak bags. Being 3 days in and having your food get clipped would be a serious bummer.

Yes we will likely learn a bunch and be quite prepared. My goal in sharing this story was more to inform people that this stuff does happen and noise and throwing stuff at them isn't always effective. Don't get lazy on this stuff or it could ruin your trip very quickly.

I would say we did get comfortable in our Bear precautions and that might have led to this incident, but I believe it's more of a stars aligning situation. None the less we will be taking much more precaution this year.

I do appreciate the advice though.

I reported this incident to the Ranger station today and it sounds like there are several reports in the area. I think it's safe to say there will be a Bear Squad on the hunt for these guys.

you didn't mention (i don't think) how your food was packed. bear vaults and odorless storage is essential. i agree with shweady, food packs should never be stored under a canoe, way too much at stake here. i also pile cook kit utensils on the food pack as an alarm. very rarely do i bother to hang my packs. i've only have had one problem bear encounter in forty years canoeing. on my last trip, with my bear magnet brother, we had a bear in our campsite, the same site i had my only other encounter in 36 years ago. this time i had a labrador with. maybe the bear was just checking things out but my lab was having none of it, 3/5 nights my lab went into defensive mode. he doesn't bark at wolves or moose, he seems to understand that bears are a visitor we don't want to entertain.

We had primarily freeze dried food with some lunch stuff but nothing needed to be cool. For storage we had them in regular packs. Two 70 Liter hiking packs.

The reason we're going with the barrels next year is to seal in any smells from roaming too far from camp.

quote LuvMyBell:I am surprised that 4 people yelling, making noise, throwing sticks and stones didn't scare the bears off. From the bear encounters I've read on this forum, that seems to work most of the time."

Bears this late in the year are desperately trying to pile on the calories before hibernation. I bet in peak camping season the noise and stone throwing would have worked.

Just curious: On which 'north side of Lake Four' sites were you and these two other groups you met going out?

I don't know where the other groups were exactly. We were at 1495.

The moon was quite full and bright that night as well.

That's an amazing story. You told it well. That sounds kind of hairy. You lost two packs. What a drag. But you still went camping. Nice save.

Those sound like some determined bears. I am 2 for 2 with loud noises scaring bears away. One encounter we left our packs at the end of a portage to go back and do some sight seeing and when we returned we accidentally kind of snuck up on it. When we started making noise it turned around looked scared as hell and took off like a thief in the night... without our packs of course.

Glad to hear you are all alright and now you have a great story to tell!

we stopped at the ely station fri. 10/2 before heading in
and the ranger asked us where we were heading because they were
having some bear problems around the number lakes.
"lot of messy campers this year" he said.

so.. they know.

I was glad I got an updated report and not to worry about our entry
on Gabbro.

I get that keeping a clean camp is going to limit bear encounters but I just feel like there are so many factors at play and for the guy at the ranger station to pin the bear activity on messy campers seems lazy to me.

Our camp by no means was pristine but wasn't a mess either. And I know you aren't implying that. Just think that answer is lazy from the ranger station.

Just what does the ranger have to do with this? the park is full of bears and bears do bear stuff. When you go into the backcountry you are on your own, supposedly. This time of year bears exhibit what to us is bad behavior. To the bear it is survival. The ranger has nothing to do with it I

quote jwartman59: "Just what does the ranger have to do with this? the park is full of bears and bears do bear stuff. When you go into the backcountry you are on your own, supposedly. This time of year bears exhibit what to us is bad behavior. To the bear it is survival. The ranger has nothing to do with it I"

he is doing exactly what I wanted and imo what they should. as I'm standing there with my daughter I'd been pretty pissed to have had an issue I could have been warned about. making an educated choice before hand I can go elsewhere.

sorry. i misread. i got the idea of calling for removal of a nuisance bear. when ever i camp in any of the heavily used entry lakes i always assume that i will have a chance with a camp bear. always plan for the worst.

Rangers should state that it's the time of year when bears are very active and to be prepared. Not place blame on "messy campers"

I would be shocked if they didn't "manage" these bears. Bears that are this bold don't get any less bold with age. Three bears learning this trick turns into 20 bears in 5 years etc etc...(numbers made up)

It's my understanding that bear hunters generally take care of problem bears.

That's the kind of trip I hope my wife is never along on. She knows the deal with the bears and isn't afraid of them but your story would get even the most seasoned trippers excited.

A lot of good points already mentioned here. Bears are adding to the last of the reserves before hibernation. Add some barrels ando pepper spray to your gear and I think you'll be just fine.

Bummer on the packs, those things are expensive!

If the Rangers want to blame the bear problem on messy - lazy campers they should be prepared to receive criticism themselves. I base camped on the Number Lakes four times this past summer. My son and daughter-in-law were there for a couple of months (yes, months) - on and off in the area.

None of us saw any Rangers but we did see many regulations being broken. Huge over size groups all on one site, illegal campsites, fish guts at sites, garbage left behind by groups...... if the Rangers were patrolling the area - maybe camper behavior would be more appropriate. So, I could make a case for the Rangers lack of visibility and follow through being the problem.

Or, bears do what bears do.

There have not been bears in the Number Chain in years - the current bears are bold and now habituated - and soon may become more aggressive in their fall quest for food before hibernating.

Ok, enough of my soap box - back to my knitting. - Yup, I really do knit.

That would have scared the heck out of me. I'm glad your planning another trip next year. I just have to throw some humor at this..... I'm not sure how to keep black bears or grizzly bears away from your foodpack, but if you disguised it as an end zone, it would keep Chicago bears away from it. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Seriously, I'm glad that you are all okay.

quote Northwoodsman: "That would have scared the heck out of me. I'm glad your planning another trip next year. I just have to throw some humor at this..... I'm not sure how to keep black bears or grizzly bears away from your foodpack, but if you disguised it as an end zone, it would keep Chicago bears away from it. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Seriously, I'm glad that you are all okay."

*rimshot*

Thanks for sharing. No Monday morning Qb'ing here-- just a few things stand out from your story-
Seems it wasn't the first time these bears had worked together to get food,, at night-- distracting and orchestrated.
When they knew food was there-- they were not leaving until they got it --- it seemed.

These the bears that got your food?

The Rangers are merely relating reality........wether the campers they are placing blame upon are "messy" or merely uneducated and /or lazy the bears involved have become habituated and that can be blamed on people. These bears will be hard to dissuade in the future........time of year for a habituated bear will have little to do with it.

The sad fact is that these 'habituated' bears are now in a position of potentially having to be dealt with by the DNR in a lethal manner...

It is extremely important that people keep a clean camp and are prepared to use all options necessary to prevent bears from getting their food and becoming habituated in the first place.

Sometimes, as in this case, making noise and merely throwing sticks and stones at bears is not enough. Being prepared with pepper spray is far better for the survival of bears than the alternative of being 'dispatched' by the DNR.

I am more convinced now to bring my bear vaults on every trip even though they add weight and don't hold much. I guess they can steal the bear vaults too if they are in a pack. I also have done the under the canoe storage when there were inadequate trees.

in 2011, a year after going to Philmont (2010) with the same group of scout and all of the bear problems that they/we had with bears there the scouts were not going to have bear problems again. so as the story goes we were tripping and over nighted in a burn area with no place to hang our smellables so the boys came up with a plan they placed all of the bags in one canoe tied a rock to the canoe to make an anchor on one end so the canoe could swing and took it about 150 yards off shore we had no problems

quote Grandma L: "If the Rangers want to blame the bear problem on messy - lazy campers they should be prepared to receive criticism themselves. I base camped on the Number Lakes four times this past summer. My son and daughter-in-law were there for a couple of months (yes, months) - on and off in the area.

None of us saw any Rangers but we did see many regulations being broken. Huge over size groups all on one site, illegal campsites, fish guts at sites, garbage left behind by groups...... if the Rangers were patrolling the area - maybe camper behavior would be more appropriate. So, I could make a case for the Rangers lack of visibility and follow through being the problem.

Or, bears do what bears do.

There have not been bears in the Number Chain in years - the current bears are bold and now habituated - and soon may become more aggressive in their fall quest for food before hibernating.

Ok, enough of my soap box - back to my knitting. - Yup, I really do knit.
"

I hope you a made a report to the forest service after you witnessed the violations, or better yet, call the forest service when you see these multiple violations.

Years ago there were ATVs running up the Cloquet Line all the way to Sandpit and Tin Can Mike Lakes. I called every time I saw ATVs. After repeated calls AND letters, the forest service got on top of it. From what I can tell there hasn't been an ATV there in many years.

quote egknuti: "

quote Grandma L: "If the Rangers want to blame the bear problem on messy - Huge over size groups all on one site, illegal campsites, fish guts at sites, garbage left behind by groups...... if the Rangers were patrolling the area - maybe camper behavior would be more appropriate. "

I hope you a made a report to the forest service after you witnessed the violations, or better yet, call the forest service when you see these multiple violations. "

I did stop in Ely at the Ranger station and talked to Tom and Richard. They too suggested calling when there were gross violation and they would send someone out if they could. the biggest problem is that there are no Rangers to send.

quote Grandma L: "

quote egknuti: "

quote Grandma L: "If the Rangers want to blame the bear problem on messy - Huge over size groups all on one site, illegal campsites, fish guts at sites, garbage left behind by groups...... if the Rangers were patrolling the area - maybe camper behavior would be more appropriate. "

I hope you a made a report to the forest service after you witnessed the violations, or better yet, call the forest service when you see these multiple violations. "

I did stop in Ely at the Ranger station and talked to Tom and Richard. They too suggested calling when there were gross violation and they would send someone out if they could. the biggest problem is that there are no Rangers to send."

My brother worked in Ely in the 60's-70's-he mentioned just yesterday that the USFS for Superior-BWCA had a staff of like 356 full and part time people around 1969. They just have a fragment of that personnel number now. Also all the money is being taken up by fires out west.

quote Pinetree: "

quote Grandma L: "

quote egknuti: "

quote Grandma L: "If the Rangers want to blame the bear problem on messy - Huge over size groups all on one site, illegal campsites, fish guts at sites, garbage left behind by groups...... if the Rangers were patrolling the area - maybe camper behavior would be more appropriate. "

I hope you a made a report to the forest service after you witnessed the violations, or better yet, call the forest service when you see these multiple violations. "

I did stop in Ely at the Ranger station and talked to Tom and Richard. They too suggested calling when there were gross violation and they would send someone out if they could. the biggest problem is that there are no Rangers to send."

My brother worked in Ely in the 60's-70's-he mentioned just yesterday that the USFS for Superior-BWCA had a staff of like 356 full and part time people around 1969. They just have a fragment of that personnel number now. Also all the money is being taken up by fires out west."

I know this is getting a bit off topic, but since this post brings up a shortage of money and rangers it got me wondering why the shortage?

Using an average of 250,000 visitors per year, that equates to at least $4,000,000 collected. That just includes the $16 per person user fee. I didn't include the $6 permit fee because some of the 250,000 visitors each year are children or seniors who pay less than $16.

If the entire $4,000,000 was used to pay just salaries of rangers, assuming a salary of $50,000 a year.....that's only 80 rangers.

There probably aren't 80 rangers for the BWCA and I wonder if the average salary is as high as $50,000. Even so, ranger salaries aren't the only expense to maintain the BWCA.

They've also got to maintain offices and buy vehicles, canoes, trail maintenance gear, firegrates, toilets, etc.....There are probably a couple planes is there for patrolling and fire protection.

On the surface,it seems to me that $4,000,000 will never cover the costs to maintain the BWCA, even at the current level. If this was the entire total budget, I'd probably be in the camp that says raise permit fees.

I'm not a fan of raising fees because the $4,000,000 doesn't include additional U.S. Government subsidizes that come out of the general fund through taxes and sporting goods fees that we all pay. I'm sure the amount collected through taxes and fees alone is more than enough money to cover the costs of hiring more rangers. It all comes down to priorities, and IMO, 250,000 people is not enough to get the attention of the federal politicians.

We need more Rangers because.............?

quote mastertangler: "We need more Rangers because.............?


"

I've been tripping in the BWCA since 1999 with at least one 8-9 day trip and sometimes a second every year.

I have never once seen a ranger anywhere in the BWCA. Not at EP's, portages, campsites or while paddling/fishing on the water.

While that may be an anomaly,numerous threads are posted here every year confirming that few rangers are seen patrolling.

While I don't want rangers routinely interrupting my fishing to check licenses or coming into my campsite uninvited, it would still be helpful to have enough around on low-profile routine patrols checking for flagrant violations like too many people on a campsite, cutting live vegetation, fires left unattended and loitering/having lunch on portages.

From the recent threads complaining about violations, obviously the current number of rangers aren't enough. It's either that or they aren't doing a good enough job. I suspect it's the former.

So we drop many hundreds of thousands of dollars (including additional pensions and benefits after they retire) to try and catch someone cutting live trees? Or having lunch on a portage? Or they have 10 people on a campsite instead of nine? Really?

Ahem........We hear about the 1% of trouble makers because a forum is comprised of numerous individuals, far more than a herd of rangers. Rather than more enforcement perhaps whats needed is a little peer pressure. "Don't cut the live trees" "don't leave your trash" Release your fish unharmed" etc. etc.

I believe the LNT ethic is largely succeeding because of education and peer pressure. Certainly the vast majority of the outdoor public is far more cognizant and aware than those of years gone by.

But I would be all for a Ranger "taking care" of some troublesome bears before someone gets hurt.

Just to be picky : ) , it would be MN DNR Conservation Officers (a state agency) that deal with wildlife (including nuisance bears), fishing licenses, and canoe registration. Not the Forest Service rangers (a federal agency) that check permits and make sure BWCAW rules are being followed. The MN DNR is under their own monetary constraints with some positions going unfilled.

quote inspector13: "
Just to be picky : ) , it would be MN DNR Conservation Officers (a state agency) that deal with wildlife (including nuisance bears), fishing licenses, and canoe registration. Not the Forest Service rangers (a federal agency) that check permits and make sure BWCAW rules are being followed. The MN DNR is under their own monetary constraints with some positions going unfilled.

"

agree.

quote mastertangler: "So we drop many hundreds of thousands of dollars (including additional pensions and benefits after they retire) to try and catch someone cutting live trees? Or having lunch on a portage? Or they have 10 people on a campsite instead of nine? Really?


Ahem........We hear about the 1% of trouble makers because a forum is comprised of numerous individuals, far more than a herd of rangers. Rather than more enforcement perhaps whats needed is a little peer pressure. "Don't cut the live trees" "don't leave your trash" Release your fish unharmed" etc. etc.


I believe the LNT ethic is largely succeeding because of education and peer pressure. Certainly the vast majority of the outdoor public is far more cognizant and aware than those of years gone by.


But I would be all for a Ranger "taking care" of some troublesome bears before someone gets hurt.


"

So, why have any Rangers at all if 'peer pressure' is the answer. I suppose we can get rid of all law enforcement too. We can just reason with the criminals and they will stop their bad behavior. No, we need visible Rangers and law enforcement.

How is that peer pressure working now? This forum, and others, are full of complaints about violations.

Thankfully, most people follow the park rules and LNT principles or the BWCA would quickly denegrate into a landfill. Rangers are needed for the same reason law enforcement is needed outside the park.

We had heard of bear issues regarding the numbered lakes from a camper who had to scare off a mother and older cubs (they were persistent) after we came out from our trip in a different area at the end of Sept. Guessing these may be the same bears. That group was camped on Lakes 2 + 3. He also 'heard' other campers on other sites scaring them off.

Agree,peer pressure only goes so far otherwise like you say we would not need any law enforcement either.
The forestry staff does many other jobs also. Timber cruising outside the BWCA,fire prevention,saftey etc.

If forestry rangers are not present the few violators will step on the rights and privileges of others and will push what they can do to the limits. Human nature always had people who care only about their selves.

Odd how the conversation goes from not having a big increase in Rangers to suddenly that means none whatsoever and we are going to end up with a landfill. Additional Rangers will have a negligible impact on the problems you have presented. Think they are going to be around when that green tree is cut? Even with additional manpower they can't be everywhere at once.

As I have mentioned, we hear about issues because there are many hundreds of contributors here. I see the situation in canoe country as improving, not getting worse.

It is easy to believe that if we just add more personnel that the perfect utopia will result.

Rather, if the crush of humanity is having a negative impact on the resource then quotas must be implemented such as they have at some of the more popular national parks out west. But that is not the case with canoe country IMO.

But we have diverted from the topic have we not? Naturally I will be content to go round and round but I'm not sure thats what everyone else wants.

Years ago when I was up the Moose chain past Vera for fishing opener.
Well we got checked by the Conservation officer and everything was great and O'kay.

What was interesting coming out a couple of day later,we ran into various parties and the first thing they mentioned was the Game Warden was out and around and make sure you don't have over your limit. The warden being around or perceived being around makes a difference.

Hunted and fished in various states,and if only one or two people get checked. People for days or weeks will talk about it and are more conscious.

Just like the Highway patrol,many people will slow down after seeing a car,but there is always a few even after getting a ticket will after a few minutes will be speeding again.

My we have strayed off topic haven't we?

Bears are habitual by nature. If someone leaves or keeps a messy campsite and a bear happens upon it, he will return to that area as long he/she finds a food source.
Case in point..My brother and I happened upon a campsite getting hit by a bear on Crooked Lake in the middle of the afternoon. We stopped at the site and ran the bear off. The site was a mess, sure the bear made a mess, but we found the cause. On the fire grate was a half full frying pan containing eggs, bacon and hashbrowns. A cooler full of fresh food, and the main food pack on the ground under a tarp. I would guess that site was ruined for future campers for the rest of the summer.
We cleaned the place up the best we could, and left a note for the campsites occupants.
After we left we watched the bear return.
I don't think the rangers statement was necessarily lazy, but I do agree to a point.

quote mooseplums: " My we have strayed off topic haven't we?


Bears are habitual by nature. If someone leaves or keeps a messy campsite and a bear happens upon it, he will return to that area as long he/she finds a food source.
Case in point..My brother and I happened upon a campsite getting hit by a bear on Crooked Lake in the middle of the afternoon. We stopped at the site and ran the bear off. The site was a mess, sure the bear made a mess, but we found the cause. On the fire grate was a half full frying pan containing eggs, bacon and hashbrowns. A cooler full of fresh food, and the main food pack on the ground under a tarp. I would guess that site was ruined for future campers for the rest of the summer.
We cleaned the place up the best we could, and left a note for the campsites occupants.
After we left we watched the bear return.
I don't think the rangers statement was necessarily lazy, but I do agree to a point."

In Quetico,on Basswood lake,we pull into a vacant campsite laying in a cold fireplace was a dozen cooked fillets of fish. Scattered food also around site. I believe people were heading out so they dumped everything.

If you bait them, they will come.

quote Grandma L: "If you bait them, they will come."

Yogi and Boo-Boo never turned down a free picnic basket.

I know you don't want to hear the Monday morning QB thing but sharing your story is a great lesson to anyone who reads this post or comments on it, thank you for sharing.

My group had a Bear in camp once a few years ago so I can relate. He didn't get fed but he sure gave it the College try. We had to make a fire and wait him out all night.

I have thought for years that the USFS should install bear vaults or high poles for campers to use in the Burn areas. There aren't many places to hide food there so the only options are to take your chances or have the campsites closed where no viable methods are available for food storage. I'm sure the burn areas are challenging places for the Bears to find food too so I don't blame them for trying to steal ours.

Obviously, this issue of Bears stealing food will never go away until everyone hangs or stashes food successfully and never gets ripped off.

Bears are good learners.
circus bear

We have had moose in camp two of the last 3 years. No bears. We went to bear vaults years ago. Also use hammocks. The reason I mention hammocks is that no one eats snacks in a hammock like they do tents. We clean our fish on another island then the one we camp on, and we burn ALL food left overs every night. I also don't allow chips or snacks that make crums in camp. Keeps down the rodent problems.

quote ockycamper: "We have had moose in camp two of the last 3 years. No bears. We went to bear vaults years ago. Also use hammocks. The reason I mention hammocks is that no one eats snacks in a hammock like they do tents. We clean our fish on another island then the one we camp on, and we burn ALL food left overs every night. I also don't allow chips or snacks that make crums in camp. Keeps down the rodent problems."

i thought burning food waste was against BWCA regulations. if it isn't it should be. i hate finding burned garbage in the fire pit. also you should never have food in your tent.

My understanding of the regs was that they were referring to left over food not eaten and food containers. When I said we burn left over food I was referring to cooked food that was not eaten in a meal. .not the containers or anything that would be visible as "garbage" in the fire pit.

What's the difference? Leftover food not eaten vs. leftover food not eaten? I've found food (both with and without containers) left unburned in the fire pits. Please pack out your garbage, including leftovers.

Lake Four Bears
I thought I was going to read about a lake I hadn't heard of.
Lake Four, bears
I was reminded earlier this year "commas kill"
Let's eat Grandma
Let's eat, Grandma

Suppose as someone mentioned a firearm was used to scare off the Bears? I mean just shoot in the dirt a few times. Would it likely scare them off and would the discharge of the gun be justified? Any comments.

Also, would you have to convince someone that you thought your life was threatened?

quote Captn Tony: "Lake Four Bears
I thought I was going to read about a lake I hadn't heard of.
Lake Four, bears
I was reminded earlier this year "commas kill"
Let's eat Grandma
Let's eat, Grandma"

Watch the eating Grandma stuff! Put your comma in the right place!

OMG grandma

A friend of mine was camping in a state park once. He said a bear was in a campsite next to him and he was told to bang pots and pans to scare it. In his own words, "When I started banging the pots and pans it came at me like I was calling my dog."

I've thought of this many times. Still, seems there is no foolproof way to 100% prevent a bear from stealing your food unless there is a twin post with a steel cable between them and you have to hang it in the middle x feet above the ground. Or go to the solid steel bear-proof containers used in some national areas (Pictured Rocks.)

They have taken food out of trees, stolen ursacks, tore open blue barrels.

The buggers are smart. They learn, they remember, they adapt.

quote Ole496: "

I have thought for years that the USFS should install bear vaults or high poles for campers to use in the Burn areas. There aren't many places to hide food there so the only options are to take your chances or have the campsites closed where no viable methods are available for food storage. I'm sure the burn areas are challenging places for the Bears to find food too so I don't blame them for trying to steal ours.


Obviously, this issue of Bears stealing food will never go away until everyone hangs or stashes food successfully and never gets ripped off.



"

We hung our food pack for years, and if properly done works. However, for over 12 yrs. we have used Garcia Barrels...and we just leave them near the fire. The bears can bat them around like a soccer ball(and have), but they can't get in and they cannot carry them off. Of course, clean camp and put NOTHING in the tent except you and your smelly socks!(no medicine, no deodorant...nothing!)

I use the Bearvault for backpacking and canoeing in the BW, when I camped in the BW I would stash the Bearvault not very far away from camp. But since I moved to Alaska, I stash the Bearvault with attractants on the ground a couple hundred feet away from my camp (Preferably down wind). I am usually camping alone, and try to minimize the chances of a Grizzly walking right by my tent while I am sleeping.

Great story about your encounter! Had me at the edge of my seat the entire time I was reading it. That really must have been a heart pounding night and one heck of a life experience. Glad everyone made it out ok.

I haven't ever really had an encounter but this past September my girlfriend Kelsey, my dog Diesel and I were staying on the big island in the south arm of knife lake. I have read that the area had a few bear issues but didn't think anything of it, just did the basics of keeping our site clean and hanging our food pack. The night we stayed there we heard something walking through the brush within 30 yards of the fire grate a few minutes after we finished our dinner, both Kelsey and Diesel got on edge and a bit freaked out. We never had an issue that night, but a group of 6 we met on our way in was staying at the site next to us ( within 300 yards) had a bear come in and tare apart a tent to get at a bag of granola they forgot about while they were out fishing that evening. When we talked with them about it they thought that the bear might have avoided us because we had a dog. Has anyone had a bear encounter with a dog in the group? And are dogs a bit of a deterrent for bears?