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08/08/2013 06:58PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
anybody? What make?
 
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TuscaroraBorealis
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08/08/2013 07:21PM  
I haven't soloed with it yet, but so far I'm impressed with my navigator from Bending Branches.
 
08/08/2013 07:24PM  
I have used the bent shaft Werner Camano the past two years and it has held up very well to some hard use. I particularly like the bent shaft option. werner camano
 
LilyPond
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08/08/2013 07:36PM  
Werner all-carbon Kalliste. Love it. I found the bent shaft aggravated my carpal tunnel syndrome so I went with a straight shaft. No need to pay full price for these expensive paddles. They are often available on Craigslist.
 
08/08/2013 08:48PM  
If you need something that you can't order I'd look at ONNO custom paddles, they don't cost any more than the big names, just take a bit longer to get.
 
08/08/2013 10:20PM  

I'm partial to Werner paddles. I've used a Werner Camano FG for several years before upgrading to a Shuna FG, and recently a Cyprus Carbon double-bent paddle for use in my Delta 18.5 Expedition K1. (I tend to be a high-angle paddler, which was my rationale for switching from the Camano to the Shuna & Cyprus for my K1.)

After some deliberation about using a K1 paddle in my solo canoe, I added a double-bladed paddle to my paddle selection this spring. I purchased a 240cm Werner double-bent Skagit Carbon reinforced nylon paddle for use in my Wenonah Voyager & Jensen C1W.

The Skagit was on Sale @ erehwon for $206.97, which was half the price of the Kalliste & Camano. Although it's a decent paddle, I wish I had gone for a Camano or Kalliste carbon paddle.

For many paddlers, the Skagit Carbon reinforced nylon paddle would probably be adequate, but I should have known better. After paddling with a Werner Cyprus carbon paddle in my Delta, the Skagit feels somewhat "clunky", for lack of a better description. A classic example of "you get what you pay for". The price of the Camano and Kalliste are twice that of the Skagit for a reason.

Then again, the majority of the time I use a carbon double-bent canoe paddle in my solos, and the Skagit was intended to be a part-time solution for long stretches of BWCAW-Quetico lake touring.

The carbon performance core & carbon performance paddles by Werner are sweet! If it's within your budget, go for a Werner performance core or performance carbon paddle; you won't regret it.

Hans Solo

 
mjmkjun
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08/09/2013 04:12AM  
Sizing a yak paddle (diameter): Is grip on carbon paddle radically different? a fellow kayak paddler commented that she had to resort to wearing gloves because paddle was burning her hand. I believe it felt slippery so perhaps she was gripping too tightly? I recall her disappointment. She had invested a serious chunk of change.
Moving water we paddled together was a class 2......maybe a tame 3
 
NotLight
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08/09/2013 08:28AM  
Does anyone know if at any of these local paddle events around Minneapolis sponsored by the outdoor stores, if they have these different paddles available to try? I'd like to try a couple paddles and lengths - not big on the try and return method. I have a kayak paddle right now, but it feels too short when I use it.


 
08/09/2013 09:35AM  
quote NotLight: "Does anyone know if at any of these local paddle events around Minneapolis sponsored by the outdoor stores, if they have these different paddles available to try? I'd like to try a couple paddles and lengths - not big on the try and return method. I have a kayak paddle right now, but it feels too short when I use it. "

They do but they normally only have double blades in shorter lengths, the few times I've attempted to try them in the past they maxed out at 220, didn't even have a 240, they may have one they could bring if you called ahead.

 
PompousPilot1
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08/09/2013 10:23AM  
quote Ragged: "If you need something that you can't order I'd look at ONNO custom paddles, they don't cost any more than the big names, just take a bit longer to get."


+1
This guy really knows what he's doing. I am in the process of getting one myself. Take a look.
 
08/09/2013 11:10AM  
quote HansSolo: "
I'm partial to Werner paddles. I've used a Werner Camano FG for several years before upgrading to a Shuna FG, and recently a Cyprus Carbon double-bent paddle for use in my Delta 18.5 Expedition K1. (I tend to be a high-angle paddler, which was my rationale for switching from the Camano to the Shuna & Cyprus for my K1.)

After some deliberation about using a K1 paddle in my solo canoe, I added a double-bladed paddle to my paddle selection this spring. I purchased a 240cm Werner double-bent Skagit Carbon reinforced nylon paddle for use in my Wenonah Voyager & Jensen C1W.

The Skagit was on Sale @ erehwon for $206.97, which was half the price of the Kalliste & Athena. Although it's a decent paddle, I wish I had gone for a Camano or Kalliste carbon paddle.

For many paddlers, the Skagit Carbon reinforced nylon paddle would probably be adequate, but I should have known better. After paddling with a Werner Cyprus carbon paddle in my Delta, the Skagit feels somewhat "clunky", for lack of a better description. A classic example of "you get what you pay for". The price of the Camano and Kalliste are twice that of the Skagit for a reason.

Then again, the majority of the time I use a carbon double-bent canoe paddle in my solos, and the Skagit was intended to be a part-time solution for long stretches of BWCAW-Quetico lake touring.

The carbon performance core & carbon performance paddles by Werner are sweet! If it's within your budget, go for a Werner performance core or performance carbon paddle; you won't regret it.

Hans Solo

"



Those Werners are nice, very well made but there were a few things I didn't care for, their high and low angle blades are pretty different, I like that the ONNO full tour blade is kind of in between, not as tall as the Werner Highs and not and narrow as the lows, for me this is a good fit because I sort of do a combo of the two in my canoe. I also have concerns on their micro adjust ferrule, nice unit, and works slick as can be in the store, but I can't help but wonder how it would function with some sand and crud in it. I also really likes that Pat's (ONNO) lever lock ferrule allows a 10cm adjustment, so if you are feeling lazy want to slowly put along dipping you can pull it out and ad those 10cm, if you are pounding as hard as you can at a high angle you can slide it in, add in the he will do any length you want and ship it to you from HI for the price of an off the shelf Werner and well..... it was an easy choice, but its not the fastest way to get a paddle in yours hands, hand made one at a time to your specs, one man shop, be prepared to wait.
 
08/09/2013 01:26PM  
I don't think I would go with the curved shaft. Some of you must like it tho?
 
08/09/2013 01:34PM  
Ragged's questions about sand in the ferrules is spot on. I have had some build up of graphite from the in and out and it gets sticky. But it works really well when kept clean and not that hard to clean.
I went with the bent shaft based on input from one of the presenters at 'copia. His point was it reduced wrist angle and hence carpal tunnel. I find it also makes a nice "feel" for sliding the paddle side to side in managing current, wind, etc. adjustments and it works really well for low angle paddling. There is less advantage when high angle paddling. I do notice my wrists are straighter. I recently used one of my older straight shaft paddles and definitely prefer the feel of the bent shaft now that I am adjusted to it. Just my opinion.
 
MNDan
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08/11/2013 04:48PM  
I picked up one of these for my Magic and, while I've only been out with it once, it's worked well for me. Mine is a 250 cm.

Aquabound Manta Paddle

dan
 
zooshooter
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08/20/2013 11:21AM  
quote MNDan: "I picked up one of these for my Magic and, while I've only been out with it once, it's worked well for me. Mine is a 250 cm.

Aquabound Manta Paddle

dan"


I'm also a fan of the Aquabound paddles. I have this one: http://coontailsports.com/collections/paddles/products/aquabound-stingray-hybrid-2-piece-kayak-paddle

They're a good weight savings for the money. Don't have anything bad to say about mine so far.
 
tonyyarusso
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08/20/2013 03:11PM  
quote LilyPond: "Werner all-carbon Kalliste."

I'm currently slobbering over the 4-piece version of this for packrafting. I haven't ordered yet, but I held it in the store and it's beautiful...
 
NotLight
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08/20/2013 03:15PM  
quote tonyyarusso: "
quote LilyPond: "Werner all-carbon Kalliste."

I'm currently slobbering over the 4-piece version of this for packrafting. I haven't ordered yet, but I held it in the store and it's beautiful..."


How long of a paddle do you use with the packraft? I was thinking of getting a 250cm paddle for my magic, and I was also going to get a Scout next spring. I am wondering if 250cm is the right size for the canoe but maybe too long for the packraft? Thanks.
 
tonyyarusso
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08/20/2013 04:57PM  
quote NotLight: "How long of a paddle do you use with the packraft?"

Haven't decided yet. (My raft arrives Thursday.) Ultimately I'd expect to end up with two different paddles - one for primarily flatwater and one for primarily whitewater. The first would be longer, for a low-angle style, and of lighter construction, while the second would be shorter, for high-angle paddling, and beefier. I have an el cheapo paddle that's 220cm that I'm going to try for a while this week to confirm my suspicion that that's much to short. The manufacturer recommendations I've found have suggested 240cm, but their boat width charts max out long before the width of a raft, and packraft-specific recommendations say "take what they tell you and go longer", so 250cm might actually be perfectly reasonable. For whitewater where you have totally different requirements for control and handling (not to mention width of the water body) 210cm seems to be the go-to recommendation of everyone. I have some experimentation to do yet, but can let you know what I find out. It would be awesome if 250cm or even 260cm turned out to work well for the raft, since like you then I could share a paddle with the canoe.
 
luft
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08/20/2013 08:27PM  
quote zooshooter: "
quote MNDan: "I picked up one of these for my Magic and, while I've only been out with it once, it's worked well for me. Mine is a 250 cm.


Aquabound Manta Paddle


dan"



I'm also a fan of the Aquabound paddles. I have this one: http://coontailsports.com/collections/paddles/products/aquabound-stingray-hybrid-2-piece-kayak-paddle


They're a good weight savings for the money. Don't have anything bad to say about mine so far. "


I also have a 2 piece Carbon AquaBound Stingray in the 230 length that I use for both my solo canoe and my kayak. The paddle works great for the kayak but I think I would be happier if it was a 240 or 250 for the solo canoe.
 
08/20/2013 09:15PM  
What is tough is not be able to at least see the different paddles in person. Like to buy a graphite paddle,but will wait to I can check them out visually.
 
NotLight
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08/20/2013 09:39PM  
I managed to fit a pipe over the middle third of my aluminum shaft 2-piece 230cm kayak paddle. I'm thinking I can rig the thing up (duct tape!) to at least try different lengths and get that part right.
 
08/20/2013 09:48PM  
quote NotLight: "I managed to fit a pipe over the middle third of my aluminum shaft 2-piece 230cm kayak paddle. I'm thinking I can rig the thing up (duct tape!) to at least try different lengths and get that part right. "

great idea...and im not a yak paddle fan.
 
ZaraSp00k
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08/21/2013 05:12PM  
another with an Aqua Bound Sting Ray in 240cm with Posi Lok which works real nice IMO. It is also available in 250 or 260.
sells for about $160-180.

FYI, the Sting Ray is for tripping, the Manta Ray for high angle, the Eagle Ray for low angle
 
08/21/2013 05:26PM  
I checked out the Kalliste at REI this weekend, nice but too pricey. I tried my 220 Camano Monday morning with the new magic, too short. I am usually a higher angle paddler and thinking about a 230 with larger blade, but still contemplating. A longer paddle with low angle stroke would likely reduce the drip into the boat. Going shopping again Friday. Thanks for the tips on the Aqua Bound paddles. I have one and it served me well.
 
NotLight
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08/21/2013 05:36PM  
I contacted Werner rep and he recommended a Shuna FG. They supposedly will do 240cm and 250cm special order in the Shuna now, even though the website says it doesn't go that long.
 
08/21/2013 06:58PM  
Years ago, I ordered a 250 cm non-carbon shaft paddle from Red Rock Store. After it had been back ordered for a month, they decided to just send me the carbon shaft upgrade. I have been happy with it but I no experience with other kayak paddles.
Mine is a Aquabound StingRay.
 
jhb8426
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08/21/2013 11:18PM  
quote bhouse46: "I checked out the Kalliste at REI this weekend, nice but too pricey. I tried my 220 Camano Monday morning with the new magic, too short..."


I don't recall what paddle you let me use when you came up, but I did feel it was too short when I was in my magic. It worked fine while I was in your kayak.
 
jhb8426
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08/21/2013 11:18PM  
quote bhouse46: "I checked out the Kalliste at REI this weekend, nice but too pricey. I tried my 220 Camano Monday morning with the new magic, too short..."


I don't recall what paddle you let me use when you came up, but I did feel it was too short when I was in my magic. It worked fine while I was in your kayak.

I know on the Bending Branches site they recommend a 260 or 280 for solo canoes.
 
NotLight
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08/26/2013 09:59PM  
I tried out my new Manta Ray Carbon 250cm in the Magic tonight. (ref, I am 5'9".)

The positives: it is much lighter than my aquabond aluminum shaft 230cm paddle. I can't imagine needing a lighter paddle. It seems pretty rugged. I am sure I was paddling quite a bit faster than with my single blade paddle. The nitpicks: I think for me a 240cm would work better for high angle paddling, and a smaller blade at 260cm+ would work better for low angle paddling. But I think at 240cm I'd get quite wet from the water dripping off the high angle paddle. So at some point in the future I will try a longer paddle with smaller blades, but not anything shorter. For now the 250cm is a nice in between. I also think the sting rays slightly smaller blade might have been a better choice for me.


 
08/26/2013 10:27PM  
quote NotLight: "I tried out my new Manta Ray Carbon 250cm in the Magic tonight. (ref, I am 5'9".)


The positives: it is much lighter than my aquabond aluminum shaft 230cm paddle. I can't imagine needing a lighter paddle. It seems pretty rugged. I am sure I was paddling quite a bit faster than with my single blade paddle. The nitpicks: I think for me a 240cm would work better for high angle paddling, and a smaller blade at 260cm+ would work better for low angle paddling. But I think at 240cm I'd get quite wet from the water dripping off the high angle paddle. So at some point in the future I will try a longer paddle with smaller blades, but not anything shorter. For now the 250cm is a nice in between. I also think the sting rays slightly smaller blade might have been a better choice for me.



"

Last year we had a similar talk and one individual cut little grooves in his blade to prevent the dripping. I know I do get wet and sometimes wear rainpants to stay dry. Still the double blade is much faster than a single paddle while soloing in my opinion.
 
08/26/2013 11:23PM  

Presently backcountry.com has Werner paddles at 25% to 30% off. I purchased a 240 cm Werner Camano Carbon neutral bend K1 paddle from backcountry.com last week for $297.47! The regular price is $424.95 MSRP. They also have the Camano Straight shaft K1 paddle for $262.46, although still not cheap, it's a significant savings from the retail price.

Werner Camano Carbon 2-Piece Bent-Shaft Paddle at backcountry.com

Had a chance to use the Camano 240cm neutral bend extensively with with my Wenonah Voyager and Sawyer Shockwave over the weekend. Although I'd like it a tad longer in the Voyager, the 240cm length seemed decent in the Sawyer Shockwave. (I personally prefer the neutral bend.)

Per a correspondence with Werner, 240cm is the longest length available in the their neutral bend paddles due to the manufacturing process. Nonetheless, the 240cm Camano neutral bend paddle will still do in the Voyager. Werner does manufacture the Camano, as well as their other touring K1 paddles up to 260cm, provided it's the straight shaft paddle.

As far as "drippage", because I'm a sit and switch paddler when using a single blade bent shaft canoe paddle, I'm comfortable with a certain amount of water getting into the canoe. Even with the 240cm Camano in the Voyager, the "drippage" is acceptable IMO.

The Werner carbon 240cm Camano neutral bend paddle was a significant improvement over the Werner Skagit 240cm neutral bend.

Hans Solo

 
NotLight
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08/27/2013 05:02AM  
quote HansSolo: "The Werner carbon 240cm Camano neutral bend paddle was a significant improvement over the Werner Skagit 240cm neutral bend.
"


Thanks for the sale info. I had been looking at that exact carbon camano carbon paddle. But, it seemed like too much money for me for my first paddle not knowing what I'm doing. I think I may end up there after I try the Manta Ray 250cm I bought in a couple more boats.

When I was paddling, I was thinking for lower angle paddling that natural bend would probably put a lot less stress on the wrist (I did not notice any wrist stress when higher angle paddling). Too bad the bent shaft isn't offered in a bit longer length.

I still think that 250cm carbon Sting Ray, preferably on sale, would be a good paddle for a first timer to figure out their likes and dislikes, and maybe a good permanent paddle. Again too bad there's no way to really try these out.
 
luft
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08/28/2013 01:52AM  
quote HansSolo: "
"


Not to hijack the thread, but HansSolo, where are these photos taken? It looks beautiful there!
 
08/28/2013 06:15AM  
quote luft: "
quote HansSolo: "
"



Not to hijack the thread, but HansSolo, where are these photos taken? It looks beautiful there!"



I'm going to guess Kickapoo?

 
08/28/2013 08:34AM  
My research continues, it seems Werner is the only bent shaft on the market and I have really enjoyed using the Camano I have. I like some of the AquaBound paddles, but no bent shaft.
Comparing blade size on the Werners the Camano has more surface area than Shuna, same as the Kalliste at 650 sq cm. The Ikelos and Coryvrecken both have 710 sq cm of area. Since I tend to push the Camano through the water leaving air and swirl I am considering the larger blade realizing it could lead to more fatigue on longer paddles.
Oh the choices, I agree with PINETREE, somewhere we ought to be able to try these paddles out. Maybe a paddle comparison session at wingnight?
 
08/28/2013 10:45PM  

To answer your question Luft, the pictures above were taken at Mirror Lake, near Baraboo and Lake Delton, Wisconsin. The geography is very similar to the sandstone cliffs found on the Kickapoo and Wisconsin rivers.

Mirror Lake State Park Info

Although I'm not a big fan or car-camping, if I don't have time to organize a weekend or longer canoe trip, Mirror Lake State Park is a fast an easy overnight getaway.

The Park is an hour and a half drive from our home and also has an extensive trail system for hiking, mountain biking and X-C skiing. The campsites are quite spacious and heavily wooded, some of the most pleasant car camping sites I've used anywhere. Some of the cliffs, like those pictured behind my Voyager above, also make for some great cliff diving action as well. :-)

The State Park owns a considerable amount of the land on the lake, and most of the shoreline is undeveloped. Mirror Lake is also very "canoe friendly". The entire lake is slow no wake, but there's very little motor traffic anyway.

Additionally, by paddling and portaging through a series of lakes and creeks, you can access the Wisconsin River from Mirror Lake, something we do quite often.

The "Ishnala", (one of our favorite restaurants), has been a fixture on the lake since 1953. The Ishanala is surrounded by the park property and you can essentially take a trail to the "Ishnala" from the park, or as we do, paddle over and land our canoes on Ishnala's shoreline.

Ishanala Website

This past weekend, my wife and I paddled our solo canoes to the restaurant and enjoyed a lobster dinner to celebrate our 34th Wedding Anniversary. Afterwards, we did a Moon light paddle back to our campsite at Mirror Lake State Park. (You've got to love a restaurant that has canoes hanging from the ceiling and live pine trees growing through the dinning room.)

Sorry about the re-direct. We now return you to our regular programming and discussion of carbon double-bladed kayak paddles for solo canoeing.

Hans Solo

 
08/29/2013 10:30AM  

quote bhouse46: "My research continues, it seems Werner is the only bent shaft on the market and I have really enjoyed using the Camano I have. I like some of the AquaBound paddles, but no bent shaft.

Comparing blade size on the Werners the Camano has more surface area than Shuna, same as the Kalliste at 650 sq cm. The Ikelos and Coryvrecken both have 710 sq cm of area. Since I tend to push the Camano through the water leaving air and swirl I am considering the larger blade realizing it could lead to more fatigue on longer paddles.
Oh the choices, I agree with PINETREE, somewhere we ought to be able to try these paddles out. Maybe a paddle comparison session at wingnight?"


Actually Ben, AT, (Adventure Technology) makes a bent shaft K1 paddle too, which they call an "ergo" shaft.

AT paddle website

I know "erewhon", (a local outdoor store here in the Milwaukee area), sells the AT paddles, but I have never used one of their paddles. Quite frankly, I don't know much about them. If I remember correctly, "yellowcanoe" mentioned that she owned an AT paddle or two.

As others have mentioned, getting an opportunity to test particular brands, models, and paddle lengths is somewhat problematic. I'm tentatively planning on attending the "Wing Night" event at the end of September @ Rebecca Lake. Provided I make it there, I'll bring along a few of my Werner paddles for you and others to demo.

As I mentioned, I recently acquired a 240cm Werner Camano with the neutral bend, which I'll bring with me. I'll also bring along a Werner 240cm Skagit CF IM neutral bend, a 215cm FG Shuna straight shaft, a 220cm FG Camano straight shaft, and a 215cm Cyprus carbon performance neutral bend for anyone who's interested.

Hans Solo
 
tonyyarusso
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08/31/2013 02:02PM  
Are any of you owners of 250cm or 260cm paddles in the Twin Cities? I'd like to be able to try the longer ones, and it seems local stores only go up to 230cm or maybe 240cm.
 
NotLight
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08/31/2013 02:11PM  
quote tonyyarusso: "Are any of you owners of 250cm or 260cm paddles in the Twin Cities? I'd like to be able to try the longer ones, and it seems local stores only go up to 230cm or maybe 240cm."


I have the 250cm manta ray carbon. You could borrow that if you'd like, or set up a kayak paddle night at Lake Nokomis or something.


 
luft
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09/01/2013 09:48PM  
quote HansSolo: "
To answer your question Luft, the pictures above were taken at Mirror Lake, near Baraboo and Lake Delton, Wisconsin..."


Thank you so much for the information on Mirror Lake and congrats on the anniversary!

Looks like Mirror Lake Park is around 3.5 hours form us so that would be very manageable for a weekend trip.


quote NotLight: "
quote tonyyarusso: "Are any of you owners of 250cm or 260cm paddles in the Twin Cities? I'd like to be able to try the longer ones, and it seems local stores only go up to 230cm or maybe 240cm."


I have the 250cm manta ray carbon. You could borrow that if you'd like, or set up a kayak paddle night at Lake Nokomis or something."



It would be great to have a kayak paddle night at Nokomis, I have a 230cm and think it is just a bit short but don't know what length will be right for me. A friend has a 240 I can try out but it would be really helpful to be able to try out a 250 as well to see which felt and paddled better with my solo.
 
tonyyarusso
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09/01/2013 10:03PM  
quote NotLight: "I have the 250cm manta ray carbon. You could borrow that if you'd like, or set up a kayak paddle night at Lake Nokomis or something."

That'd be great. Any chance you're available tomorrow? (No holiday plans here, so it'd be a good time if you're not doing anything special either.) Otherwise I'm also open after work Thursday or Friday.
 
NotLight
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09/01/2013 10:07PM  
quote tonyyarusso: "
quote NotLight: "I have the 250cm manta ray carbon. You could borrow that if you'd like, or set up a kayak paddle night at Lake Nokomis or something."

That'd be great. Any chance you're available tomorrow? (No holiday plans here, so it'd be a good time if you're not doing anything special either.) Otherwise I'm also open after work Thursday or Friday."


Busy this week. Best times for me would be Saturday mornings early for a couple hours at Nokomis. Like 7-10am. Then I'd have time to bring boats.
 
bonzm
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11/16/2013 06:42PM  
Make a Greenland stick. Easier, cheaper, and no limits on how many uses while camping.

greenland stick
 
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