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Listening Point - General Discussion

tampon protocol

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lundojam

06/28/2012 04:50PM

I've searched this topic wiht no success (too many euphamisms, I'm guessing) with no success. 5 women and myself are headed in soon, and it sounds like we picked a bad time in regard to menstruation. Oh, well. Question: Can the non-plastic applicator ones go down the biffy? Or are we packing them out? I thought I'd ask somebody who knows. Any other advice for the girls (not for me, I can already see that coming) would be appreciated.

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serenityseeker

06/28/2012 05:12PM

First off - Guys if you can't take this topic as the serious one it is, please say nothing at all. Please. Please do not start with the off color, unhelpful comments.

Your best bet is to find organic cotton tampons with no applicator if you are not going to pack everything out. you might have to go to somewhere like Whole Foods or similar.

I've never needed them so I can't suggest a brand or place to purchase sorry.

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Savage Voyageur

06/28/2012 05:12PM

Pack them out if made with plastic. The latrine is not made for trash. Spelled out right in the rules on the back of your permit.

"So many lakes, so little time."

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Trix

06/28/2012 05:24PM

quote serenityseeker: "First off - Guys if you can't take this topic as the serious one it is, please say nothing at all. Please. Please do not start with the off color, unhelpful comments.

Your best bet is to find organic cotton tampons with no applicator if you are not going to pack everything out. you might have to go to somewhere like Whole Foods or similar.

I've never needed them so I can't suggest a brand or place to purchase sorry. "

OB tampons is one with no applicator. That is what I would suggest as well.

C-H-A-L-L-E-N-G-E: Do not let what you cannot do, interfere with what you can do.

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Canoearoo

06/28/2012 05:28PM

The womens forum covers this topic well. OB tampons are the best; however even better are af cups (either instead cups or diva cups). They create no garbage at all.

Life jackets float, you don't!

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giddyup

06/28/2012 06:06PM

The timing of menstruation can be manipulated with the help of a GYN MD, PA or NP using medication if your lady trippers are so inclined. As far as I'm concerned, that's the way to go. Thank you Serenity Seeker, for your request for all to be respectful of this topic.

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lundojam

06/28/2012 06:13PM

Thanks for the comments. My remaining question is: Are we allowed to throw NON-plastic tampons in the biffy?
I appreciate the tone of this discussion.

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tonyyarusso

06/28/2012 06:23PM

My understanding had always been that you have to pack them out, but I won't claim to know the latest developments in this product market.

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serenityseeker

06/28/2012 06:24PM

This is the only 'official' rule I could find pertaining to the discussion.

Latrines are not garbage cans and should be used for the intended purpose only. Personal waste items such as cigarette butts, cotton swabs, or plastic feminine products should always be packed out and should never go into the latrines.

Personally, anything that is not guaranteed as biodegradable I would have a very hard time leaving anywhere in the wilderness. but I leave the interpretation of the official rules and the leave no trace philosophy up to you.

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AndySG

06/28/2012 06:38PM

Yep....plastic gets packed out. I think the fabric tampon itself would be ok going in the latrine. It will eventually be buried and degrade when the latrine is moved by the FS. I don't agree with packing a used one out. If you are a purist, I suggest burning it or packing it out. Your choice.

Sincerely yours, Andy

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knitsocks77

06/28/2012 08:16PM

quote Canoearoo: however even better are af cups (either instead cups or diva cups). They create no garage at all." Lady cup is another brand. Money savers and earth savers.

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LuvMyBell

06/28/2012 08:56PM

If the applicators are non-plastic as you say, then they are probably a paper (cardboard) product. If it were my wife or girlfriend, I'd have her (them) burn it. It's paper after all.
The used tampon itself goes in the biffy.

Paddle Faster....I hear banjo music

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Canoearoo

06/28/2012 11:16PM

quote bruceye: "Now that would be a new concept in building materials :)"

lol you missed it.. I corrected my spelling error then you posted

Life jackets float, you don't!

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kabloona

06/29/2012 07:09AM

We all know that garbage should not be burned..
Some things SHOULD go in the fire..
I would never expect my wife or teen age daughter's to pack them around for a week.
Can you say bear?
These very personal products get burned at my camp!

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tumblehome

06/29/2012 07:55AM

From a my point of view (I'm a guy, though)

When I go to use the latrine I would not feel well looking in there and seeing tampon parts even if they're biodegradable. If my wife were with me and needed to discard disposable tampons, I would venture far from camp and bury them.

BTW, your post is very on-topic and needs to be discussed. It's a common problem out there and there are good solutions to it.

Tom

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LuvMyBell

06/29/2012 09:25AM

quote tumblehome: "From a my point of view (I'm a guy, though)

When I go to use the latrine I would not feel well looking in there and seeing tampon parts even if they're biodegradable. If my wife were with me and needed to discard disposable tampons, I would venture far from camp and bury them.

BTW, your post is very on-topic and needs to be discussed. It's a common problem out there and there are good solutions to it.

Tom

"
This may be getting a little gross to discuss but USUALLY the used tampons get wrapped in toilet paper when disposed so I don't see any issues with putting them in the biffy. Also I can't say that I've spent any time looking at what's in the biffy. I make my depsoit and get away as quick as possible.

Paddle Faster....I hear banjo music

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Canoearoo

06/29/2012 09:38AM

quote knitsocks77: "quote Canoearoo: however even better are af cups (either instead cups or diva cups). They create no garbage at all." Lady cup is another brand. Money savers and earth savers."

I didn't think you could get the Lady cup in the us? I thought it was an eu product?

Life jackets float, you don't!

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Canoearoo

06/29/2012 09:42AM

Here is an interesting comparison of some of the AF cups (excluding the instead cup)

And here is the instead cup website
You can buy these Walgreen'sens

**I left the pics off this post and just put link on for the sake of the guys reading this. The pics are in the womens forum as well in the actual post**

Life jackets float, you don't!

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2K10

06/29/2012 10:37AM

quote giddyup: "The timing of menstruation can be manipulated with the help of a GYN MD, PA or NP using medication if your lady trippers are so inclined. As far as I'm concerned, that's the way to go. Thank you Serenity Seeker, for your request for all to be respectful of this topic."

+1....I've done this a few times for various reasons and it works like a charm. Just a little modification of BC pill timing (if you are on it).

And yes, thank you for keeping this topic respectful! I know it's not a comfortable topic for most guys :-)

"Live in the Moment: You can't change yesterday, but you can ruin today worrying about tomorrow"

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Goby

06/29/2012 10:58AM

This was a concern for my girlfriend at the time on last year's trip. She and I both weren't fond of the idea of packing them around, so we burned em. We made it a sort of ritual thing as a sacrfice to the Quetico gods. She meant to adjust her schedule using the BC pill but never did so we got to deal with the aftermath.

Good luck.

Tight Lines

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BWPaddler

06/29/2012 02:52PM

quote LuvMyBell: "quote tumblehome: "From a my point of view (I'm a guy, though)

When I go to use the latrine I would not feel well looking in there and seeing tampon parts even if they're biodegradable.
"
I can't say that I've spent any time looking at what's in the biffy. I make my depsoit and get away as quick as possible."
Amen, looking in latrines in general can lead to an upset stomach. I bet we all claim we don't look, and I bet we all peek eventually - either to take pride in our own "work" or compare to someone else's, lol.

In any case, accidentally viewing tampons in latrine vs someone's "processed" breakfast - not much difference to me. I'll keep trying to avert my eyes in general when near the throne!

Back to topic, I'd be OK with biodegradable applicators/products in the latrine. Better solutions if possible and feasible for the woman/girl. Not much on hormone "manipulation" though.

Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. -Thoreau

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tumblehome

06/29/2012 07:00PM

Oh ya, I look. And not to see your poopie. I look because I'm afraid of spiders biting my arse. I brush a stick around the top of the latrine to get the bugs and spider webs off my spot. Sorry to say it but I do.

And yes, EVERYONE looks in the biffie. Don't lie!

Tom

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DayDreamin

06/29/2012 07:34PM

2 weeks ago, at a campsite on horseshoe, I found a nicely wrapped Ladies Cigar in a zip lock near the landing. We packed it out.
Im gonna say it....gross

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Spartan2

06/30/2012 09:41AM

quote BWPaddler: "quote LuvMyBell: "quote tumblehome: "From a my point of view (I'm a guy, though)

When I go to use the latrine I would not feel well looking in there and seeing tampon parts even if they're biodegradable.
"
I can't say that I've spent any time looking at what's in the biffy. I make my depsoit and get away as quick as possible."
Amen, looking in latrines in general can lead to an upset stomach. I bet we all claim we don't look, and I bet we all peek eventually - either to take pride in our own "work" or compare to someone else's, lol.

In any case, accidentally viewing tampons in latrine vs someone's "processed" breakfast - not much difference to me. I'll keep trying to avert my eyes in general when near the throne!

Back to topic, I'd be OK with biodegradable applicators/products in the latrine. Better solutions if possible and feasible for the woman/girl. Not much on hormone "manipulation" though."

+1, or +2 or whatever. I am past the age of using these products, but when I did, I was not going to manipulate my hormone cycles for a canoe trip (because of other health concerns.) And I didn't concern myself with the sensibilities of those who looked into the biffy, figuring that pretty much everything in there wasn't very pleasant anyway. If it is biodegradable, I don't see the issue here. Never used plastic ones, and OB's weren't comfortable for me, so didn't like those either. They may have improved them in the years since I have had the need, however.

As to burning, burning garbage/trash is illegal in Minnesota. We burn a bit of paper to start a fire occasionally, but I would never consider burning a used tampon, or even a used cardboard applicator.

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LuvMyBell

06/30/2012 11:44AM

quote Spartan2:

As to burning, burning garbage/trash is illegal in Minnesota. We burn a bit of paper to start a fire occasionally, but I would never consider burning a used tampon, or even a used cardboard applicator."

I'm afraid I have to disagree with your comment about not burning the cardboard applicator. It's paper. You yourself said you occasionally use a bit of paper to start your fire.

I don't consider paper as garbage when it comes to burning it in campfires whether I'm in the BWCA or elsewhere. All paper products get burned in my camp, unless they are contaminated with some harmful product.

Paddle Faster....I hear banjo music

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Spartan2

06/30/2012 12:21PM

You can "consider" it OK to burn all of your paper products if you wish, I guess. But the Minnesota law says absolutely no burning of "trash" and we were told by the rangers that that mean paper. (I was surprised, and I questioned it. I got a pretty definite answer.)

Every time we start a fire with a bit of paper I feel guilty about using it and we pack out almost all of our paper now. Just sayin'.

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LuvMyBell

06/30/2012 01:17PM

quote Spartan2: "You can "consider" it OK to burn all of your paper products if you wish, I guess. But the Minnesota law says absolutely no burning of "trash" and we were told by the rangers that that mean paper. (I was surprised, and I questioned it. I got a pretty definite answer.)

Every time we start a fire with a bit of paper I feel guilty about using it and we pack out almost all of our paper now. Just sayin'."

You are probably right about burning paper. I don't read anything in the official rules that classifies paper as trash, but it probably is under strict interpretation. GUILTY AS CHARGED I guess.

I re-read the official rules regarding disposal of fish guts as the result of another thread and came across this regarding what cannot be disposed of in BWCA biffies:

"Latrines are not garbage cans and should be used for the intended purpose only. Personal waste items such as cigarettes, cotton swabs, or plastic feminine products should always be packed out and should never go into the latrines".

I think a clever lawyer could still argue that used tampons are not forbidden in the biffy because they are not plastic. However, since they are cotton and cotton swabs are forbidden, I'd say that the ladies are expected to pack them out.Bring plenty of ziplock bags I guess.....

I think burning non contaminated paper and disposing of used tampons in the biffy are 2 things that most reasonable people will continue to turn a blind eye to.

Paddle Faster....I hear banjo music

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Spartan2

06/30/2012 01:34PM

And I agree with you, LuvMyBell. But I am now always very careful to have paper in my trash bag. Because we have had our campsite checked by the rangers now several times, and if I have been out for five or six days, I don't want to have to explain why there is no paper in my trash bag, should I be asked. ;-)

On the other hand, when I used them, I always considered disposing of a used tampon (not the applicator) in the biffy as "using the latrine for the intended purpose". Never thought about it being cotton. And since the cardboard applicator was biodegradable (as much as TP) I threw those in there, too, usually. Since it was a couple decades ago, I can't do anything about it either. Sigh.

Many cotton swabs have plastic stems. Some don't. Gosh. . .this does get complicated, doesn't it? :-)

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LuvMyBell

06/30/2012 02:17PM

quote Spartan2: "And I agree with you, LuvMyBell. But I am now always very careful to have paper in my trash bag. Because we have had our campsite checked by the rangers now several times, and if I have been out for five or six days, I don't want to have to explain why there is no paper in my trash bag, should I be asked. ;-)

On the other hand, when I used them, I always considered disposing of a used tampon (not the applicator) in the biffy as "using the latrine for the intended purpose". Never thought about it being cotton. And since the cardboard applicator was biodegradable (as much as TP) I threw those in there, too, usually. Since it was a couple decades ago, I can't do anything about it either. Sigh.

Many cotton swabs have plastic stems. Some don't. Gosh. . .this does get complicated, doesn't it? :-)"

Excellent point about having a trash bag with some paper in it in case you can checked. Our group uses alot of dehydrated meals that come in sealed pouches. We always have a bag with plenty of empties so I guess we'd be okay.

Speaking of being checked, I've been on numerous trips since 1999 and have never once had a ranger come to our campsite nor have I been stopped out on the lake while fishing or swimming.

While I think the rangers have a right check permits and/or licenses, I think it would be in extremely bad form to do it out on the lake while someone is fishing.

Two years ago we did have a guy and a gal come by in a canoe. They obviously had something to do with the USFWS because they had a fire grate and a biffy in the canoe.

They landed their canoe, we exchanged pleasantries and one of them walked back to the biffy, presumably to check it's condition, then they left. They never asked to see a BWCA permit, fishing license or canoe registration.

Paddle Faster....I hear banjo music

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AndySG

06/30/2012 04:37PM

Only the MN DNR officers check for fishing violations. I've been checked while fishing from the canoe. Did not bother me and I did not consider it bad form on their part. Two officers paddled up, checked my license, chatted a bit and took off.

I've never been checked by Forest Service (Feds) Officers. I don't know how far they go in checking gear bags and tents, but I've heard they look in the latrine and fire pit.

My question is this. What if you take a campsite where previous occupants have put garbage in the latrine and left half burned garbage in the fire pit? Will you be sited if checked by the FS? This seems to be a slippery slope.

Sincerely yours, Andy

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Spartan2

06/30/2012 11:54PM

We have been checked at our campsite several times, and once this past year. Since I remember that one the best, I will just say that the ranger asked to come up to our campsite and we gave permission. He asked to see our permit, chatted a bit, asked how our campsite was when we arrived and if we had any problems to report. We reported some trash in the second tent site that we intended to carry out. He then went over there, picked it up and came back, chuckling. He said, "If you are going to litter a campsite, you shouldn't leave the bag with your permit number on it."

I don't remember if he checked our latrine. We discussed some possible routes we might take, he asked again if there were any problems and I mentioned that the campers in the adjoining site had kept us up at 2 AM with some loud partying. Then he apologized for interrupting our breakfast and went on his way.

He didn't ask to see our trash bag, but it was in plain sight because I had been fixing breakfast. He did look our campsite over quite thoroughly.

After he visited our campsite, he must have gone to talk with our neighbors, as when we saw them later on the portage, they apologized rather profusely for their loud conduct on the night before. (They had a keg at the water's edge and they were just having a very loud good time.)

It is my experience that they do check campsites, and when they do, they look things over pretty well. Since we tend to follow the rules fairly carefully (we aren't perfect) I guess we have never done anything that caught attention as being a problem. Thankfully.

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PortageKeeper

07/01/2012 08:38AM

In my camp, I guess that I'd rather they were burned than thrown in the latrine. I wouldn't expect anyone to pack them out just because it is something that can cause larger problem if there is any cross contamination (sorry, I use these words simply because I'm a little foggy). Burning should only be done on a hot fire, and should be attended until all has turned to ash.
The reason I wouldn't want them in the latrine... they might degrade, just not soon enough. It is a big job for the FS to relocate a latrine that has filled. Some sites just barely pass regs. because the latrine has to be xxx feet from any water, cannot of course be dug into rock, have to be xx feet deep, need to be reasonably accessible etc. Some have visited the latrine on the south side of the island on Finger lake. It's on a steep enough slope that you make a point of being careful when getting off the throne, and not sliding down the hill with you pants down. That latrine is there because it was one of the only places to put it. If there is no other place to re-locate it, then they may have to shut down a gorgeous camp site.

“The more you know, the less you carry” Mors Kochanski

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