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alpine525

06/26/2012 12:43PM

We purchased two CCS Pioneer Packs to replace old Duluth Packs we've been using for years. I'm looking for plastic pack liners for the Pioneer Packs - I can't use the old Duluth Pack liners because the dimensions are different. For those of you have have Pioneer Packs, where do you buy your pack liners?

Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace. Dalai Lama

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yellowcanoe

06/26/2012 12:58PM

Ostrom=

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BWPaddler

06/26/2012 12:59PM

Didn't know the dimensions had to be precise? I get plastic $5 liners at REI and not sure what they're sized for. I get a "#4" liner and use it in everything from CampTrails to GG Superior One or GG Solo, etc.

Also have used the GG eVent fabric liners, similarly without regard for dimensions (at least as long as it's not too small that is...).

Good luck.

Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. -Thoreau

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yellowcanoe

06/26/2012 01:36PM

quote BWPaddler: "Didn't know the dimensions had to be precise? I get plastic $5 liners at REI and not sure what they're sized for. I get a "#4" liner and use it in everything from CampTrails to GG Superior One or GG Solo, etc.

Also have used the GG eVent fabric liners, similarly without regard for dimensions (at least as long as it's not too small that is...).

Good luck."

They don't. But you can't stretch a too small pack liner! You could use two of the old ones..

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AndySG

06/26/2012 01:40PM

Based on the wisdom of the members here, I use contractor grade trash bags for less than $1 each. So far so good. You can find them at Lowe's, Home Depot, Menards, etc. Just make sure they are "contractor" grade.

Sincerely yours, Andy

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yellowcanoe

06/26/2012 01:52PM

quote AndySG: "Based on the wisdom of the members here, I use contractor grade trash bags for less than $1 each. So far so good. You can find them at Lowe's, Home Depot, Menards, etc. Just make sure they are "contractor" grade."

How do you seal them and reseal them so they are always watertight? Is there a trick?

I figure after some three hundred days out of my Ostroms, which are watertight when tossed in the lake,the cost per night is minimal. And I expect to use those pack liners forever.

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timatkn

06/26/2012 02:02PM

Yellowcanoe you just twist them and use a rubber band or industrial twist tie. I double wrap to make sure. Double wrapping can be re-used for years. No leaks. Cheap. maybe spend 50 cents year on my liners. I love the link to Ostrom--looks easier but to outfit 4 packs you are looking at $200. I'd have to go on 400 trips before I recouped my costs with the Ostrom vs contractor bag. I need to watch what I spend...so it isn't as easy or ideal but the cost is right. Someday--the ostrom or similar will make it into my pack.

T

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blackdawg9

06/26/2012 02:12PM

picked 1 up from pirigas a couple years ago. i just twisted and folded mine . nothing got wet inside, even when fully submerged for quite a while.

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IBFLY

06/26/2012 02:36PM

You say that like it's a bad thing.

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IBFLY

06/26/2012 02:39PM

quote yellowcanoe: " Ostrom= "
The ostroms look nice. Basically a sealline type dry bag inside a bag. If we added a contractor bag inside that - it would be akin to wearing two condoms and being on the pill!

You say that like it's a bad thing.

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buz

06/26/2012 02:43PM

Another vote for the contractors bags. I use big rubber bands like you get off broccoli bunches, works well for me.

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alpine525

06/26/2012 02:57PM

Lots of good ideas here - keep them coming. I might take a look at the contractor bags from Home Depot and compare them (quality) to the ones I used for my Duluth packs. Has anyone purchsed liners from Piragis in Ely?

Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace. Dalai Lama

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nofish

06/26/2012 03:09PM

Another vote for contractor bags. I always have a box of them at home. I just roll the top over or twist it shut and hold it with a twist tie or rubber band. At camp the twist tie or rubber band gets wrapped around the same strap all the time so i don't lose them.

I also use a smaller dry bag for the things that I want a little extra insurance on such as a camera (I bring my good camera), extra long sleeve shirt and pants just in case everything else gets wet I'll have something dry to put on in a pinch, extra box of matches and extra TP. Probably over cautious on the extra dry bag but better safe than sorry.

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cinna

06/26/2012 03:59PM

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Goby

06/26/2012 04:25PM

I use the contractor bags as well. I usually stay at an outfitter the night before entering the Q and just ask them for a couple. They just give me a bunch and I'm set for a while.

To seal them for the waterproof element I roll the shut, then twist them, securing the pack opening over that. I've had any gear get wet, but I've never dumped either. They make it through 3 day soakers like that no problem though.

Tight Lines

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walllee

06/26/2012 04:41PM

Plain old garbage bags. I think the duluth pack liners are too bulky and stiff.

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overthehill

06/26/2012 07:03PM

Contractor bags.

Not to Hurry-Not to Worry

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kanoes

06/26/2012 07:11PM

i prefer the largest size i can find, 50 gallon plus. gives a better top roll.

i think bigfoot is blurry. (mitch hedberg)

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gutmon

06/26/2012 07:16PM

quote yellowcanoe: "quote AndySG: "Based on the wisdom of the members here, I use contractor grade trash bags for less than $1 each. So far so good. You can find them at Lowe's, Home Depot, Menards, etc. Just make sure they are "contractor" grade."

How do you seal them and reseal them so they are always watertight? Is there a trick?

I figure after some three hundred days out of my Ostroms, which are watertight when tossed in the lake,the cost per night is minimal. And I expect to use those pack liners forever.

" I twist mine a few times, fold it over and use a BDB to secure. rubber bands always break eventually.

"The trouble with the world isn't that people know too little, but that they know so much that just ain't so." Mark Twain

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yellowcanoe

06/26/2012 07:22PM

I am gonna continue to use my Ostrom Pack liners canoeing as I have a retirement lifestyle built around canoe tripping. Yes I do have a background starting with pack liners a la garbage bag. Back then there were no contractor bags.

But I concede the trash bag pack liner war. I too use contractor garbage bags for the..

sssh..pack canoe (open top kayak) on offshore excursions here and in Florida. I have to cut em down though. Fill one and no way will it fit below he spray cover. For the same reason a canoe pack itself is too big.

So the question about how to seal the thing was legit. The last crossing I just duct taped the thing shut. It was a rough crossing. But using duct tape is not repeatable.

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bapabear

06/26/2012 07:40PM

With my GG pack I've used large contractor bags. Pretty big but I like having the extra to fold over. I squeeze the air out, fold it over a couple of times and use some large clips to hold it all in place. I also put all my other stuff in seal-line bags inside it all. Kind of like the double condom idea.

May waters rise to meet you. May wind and current be always at your back. May the Good Lord paddle with you, And may yours be the lightest pack.

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boonie

06/26/2012 08:04PM

I use some 6-mil contractor bags I bought a few years ago. They are plenty big and I just twist the extra at top and fold over and secure tightly with a BDB. The thing I don't like about them is that they are black - I'd like to find some clear ones.

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kanoes

06/26/2012 08:14PM

quote boonie: "I use some 6-mil contractor bags I bought a few years ago. They are plenty big and I just twist the extra at top and fold over and secure tightly with a BDB. The thing I don't like about them is that they are black - I'd like to find some clear ones."
have you seen 6 mil since?

i think bigfoot is blurry. (mitch hedberg)

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gutmon

06/26/2012 08:17PM

got 50gal 6mil clear bags at Fleet Farm 2 years ago. Haven't checked lately, as I have a life-time supply.

"The trouble with the world isn't that people know too little, but that they know so much that just ain't so." Mark Twain

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serenityseeker

06/26/2012 09:38PM

clear contractor bags (from fleet farm) twisted and closed with big rubber bands. doubled if I am worried for one reason or another.

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gutmon

06/26/2012 10:09PM

I have a friend that uses an external frame pack with a contractor's bag liner for BWCA trips. It's a Jansport with the clever feature of the hip belt functioning as a stand for the pack on the ground (doesn't need to lean against anything to stay upright). When he base camps, he takes the liner out and pulls it over his pack for waterproof protection in camp that doesn't take up room under the tarp or in his tent. Thought it was a pretty good idea.

"The trouble with the world isn't that people know too little, but that they know so much that just ain't so." Mark Twain

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Jackfish

Moderator

06/26/2012 10:46PM

quote AndySG: "Based on the wisdom of the members here, I use contractor grade trash bags for less than $1 each. So far so good. You can find them at Lowe's, Home Depot, Menards, etc. Just make sure they are "contractor" grade."
What Andy said. I have two CCS Pioneer packs and have been using contractor size garbage bags for years. I've found no reason to do anything different. $65 for an Ostrom pack liner? You have to be kidding.

It's only a spot on the map... until you go there.

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BWPaddler

06/27/2012 12:21AM

I've only seen a demo of securing top of plastic liners once - but I think it was an Expo presentation and went something like this...

- rubber band
- twist and goose neck (loop around)
- rubber band again

Never used that approach personally.

Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. -Thoreau

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boonie

06/27/2012 06:10AM

quote kanoes: "quote boonie: "I use some 6-mil contractor bags I bought a few years ago. They are plenty big and I just twist the extra at top and fold over and secure tightly with a BDB. The thing I don't like about them is that they are black - I'd like to find some clear ones."
have you seen 6 mil since?"

No, I haven't. I bought them at Lowe's years ago, but they don't seem to have them anymore - I only have a couple left.

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yellowcanoe

06/27/2012 07:27AM

quote Jackfish: "quote AndySG: "Based on the wisdom of the members here, I use contractor grade trash bags for less than $1 each. So far so good. You can find them at Lowe's, Home Depot, Menards, etc. Just make sure they are "contractor" grade."
What Andy said. I have two CCS Pioneer packs and have been using contractor size garbage bags for years. I've found no reason to do anything different. $65 for an Ostrom pack liner? You have to be kidding."

Nope. But I trip some hundred nights a year. You spend now and often for contractor bags or spend now and never again for a true pack liner. Your call. I hate having to fix stuff or remember to replenish with a quick turnaround time between trips. Its stressful enough to come back Sun and have to repack for a Friday takeoff for two months.

I suspect many of you live in a city. I don't so HD and Lowes is a bit of a ride. Takes all day.

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nctry

06/27/2012 09:11AM

I do the contractor bag thing too. Don't get to carried away with the closure thing and even when I dumped last month I stayed reletively dry... and my packs were in the water for a lot longer than I was. This canoeing thing is great cause you can do things so many different ways and budgets. Get the best you can afford or care to spend. Spent a little time in some wet the last few weeks... The contractor bags worked well where they needed to but not everywhere. They got abraided a lot... hope I said that right.

Nctry Ben

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DTrain

06/27/2012 10:18AM

I use the Duluth pack liners with my CCS Pioneer. Reply back I you want me to track down the size, it actually fits really well. I double bag and tie with shock cord. They are definitely thicker than contractor bags.

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alpine525

06/27/2012 10:59AM

DTrain: We used Duluth liners with our old #3 Duluth packs. They worked very well. The Pioneer Pack dimensions are 24H x 18W x 11D. Duluth liners are not anywhere near these dimensions. Which size do you use?

Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace. Dalai Lama

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Lymphocytosis

06/27/2012 11:36AM

I use the contractor bags in my smaller packs, but I dislike how short they are in relation to my bigger packs. The ones I can find that are 3mm or more are only about 42 gallons. The 33 in depth of the bag doesn't give much clearance over the 24 in height of my CCS pack (plus you lose some height to filling the bag) and I really like to be able to roll down the liner a lot. The 55 gallon bags are usually just 2mm and I find they tear. I just haven't been able to find ones with the thickness and height of the Duluth pack liners.

Any of you guys have thoughts?

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IBFLY

06/27/2012 11:40AM

double post

You say that like it's a bad thing.

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keth0601

06/27/2012 12:02PM

Also use the contractor bags. I try to get some extra air in them if room allows before rolling and tying. This is to help them float in the even of a dump.

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Dan Cooke

Guest Paddler

06/27/2012 12:14PM

I only use a waterproof stuff sack for my sleeping bag and my long underwear, lightweight gloves and stocking hat. The rest is in non waterproof stuff sacks. I allways trip with a canoe cover so rain wetting the exterior of the pack ar it's contents does not happen. The waterproof stuff sack is if I ever go over unexpectantly.
The circumference of the body of most canoe packs is in the 60" to 74" range . The heavy duty contractor bags work well for the contents of the entire pack, and you can put a spare in the bottom of the pack for a just in case tear, or duct tape works.
The M-215 duluth Pack Line will work in any CCS pack.

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ducks

06/27/2012 12:16PM

quote Lymphocytosis: The ones I can find that are 3mm or more are only about 42 gallons. The 33 in depth of the bag doesn't give much clearance over the 24 in height of my CCS pack (plus you lose some height to filling the bag) and I really like to be able to roll down the liner a lot. The 55 gallon bags are usually just 2mm and I find they tear. I just haven't been able to find ones with the thickness and height of the Duluth pack liners.

Any of you guys have thoughts?"

Same here on the 42 gallon ones I got from Home Depot (biggest I found there). I was at my dad's house and he had some 55 gallon 3 mil that he got from Menards. He sent the rest of the box w/ me and I'm anxious to try them out in my CCS Guide pack.

Pura Vida

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Jackfish

Moderator

06/27/2012 12:39PM

quote yellowcanoe: "quote Jackfish: "quote AndySG: "Based on the wisdom of the members here, I use contractor grade trash bags for less than $1 each. So far so good. You can find them at Lowe's, Home Depot, Menards, etc. Just make sure they are "contractor" grade. "
$65 for an Ostrom pack liner? You have to be kidding."
Nope. But I trip some hundred nights a year. You spend now and often for contractor bags or spend now and never again for a true pack liner. Your call. I hate having to fix stuff or remember to replenish with a quick turnaround time between trips. Its stressful enough to come back Sun and have to repack for a Friday takeoff for two months. "
Well, if you're doing that many nights out, I suppose one could justify the expense. Being on a two-month trip would require the best gear possible, even when it comes to pack liners. Still seems like a major example of over-paying for something, though.

It's only a spot on the map... until you go there.

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alpine525

06/27/2012 02:59PM

quote Dan Cooke: "I only use a waterproof stuff sack for my sleeping bag and my long underwear, lightweight gloves and stocking hat. The rest is in non waterproof stuff sacks. I allways trip with a canoe cover so rain wetting the exterior of the pack ar it's contents does not happen. The waterproof stuff sack is if I ever go over unexpectantly.
The circumference of the body of most canoe packs is in the 60" to 74" range . The heavy duty contractor bags work well for the contents of the entire pack, and you can put a spare in the bottom of the pack for a just in case tear, or duct tape works.
The M-215 duluth Pack Line will work in any CCS pack."
Thank you, Dan!

Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace. Dalai Lama

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IBFLY

06/27/2012 04:06PM

Yellow Canoe: Nope. But I trip some hundred nights a year. You spend now and often for contractor bags or spend now and never again for a true pack liner. Your call. I hate having to fix stuff or remember to replenish with a quick turnaround time between trips. Its stressful enough to come back Sun and have to repack for a Friday takeoff for two months.
I suspect many of you live in a city. I don't so HD and Lowes is a bit of a ride. Takes all day."

Nothing wrong with doing that - it's a value to you and makes sense given your situation.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

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billconner

06/27/2012 04:34PM

This has been informative. I use the heavy clear poly vinyl pack liners. Until a few years ago, I used only the basic Kondos outfitter pack, have expanded a bit since. I fold/roll top of liner and cinch down pack flap to hold in place. Dumped once in rough water - someone's crappy wood and canvas canoe suited for creeks, not flat water - and took about 40 minutes to shore. Everything in all three packs bone dry. Good enough for me.

If you buy the $120 liners instead of plastic bags, how do you patch it if punctured? I just carry and extra $3 liner in case - has happened twice - once an inside puncture out - I think a handle on something - and once an outside puncture in on a stick. I won't believe the $120 liners are puncture proof.

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Chicagored

06/27/2012 09:50PM

A few years ago I found some monster size zip lock bags at Menards or Home Depot. Not only are they water tight, but you can save space by compressing all the air out. I think they come 4 or 5 to a box for about $6.00 and mine have held up for several trips now.

Pura Vida

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DTrain

06/30/2012 05:45PM

quote alpine525: "DTrain: We used Duluth liners with our old #3 Duluth packs. They worked very well. The Pioneer Pack dimensions are 24H x 18W x 11D. Duluth liners are not anywhere near these dimensions. Which size do you use?"

It looks like I ended up with the food pack liners which are 54H x 15W x 15D. They actually work very well for the pioneer pack. It seems high, but by the time you double bag, load it up, and tie each liner separately with shock cord it ends up being a good fit and I'm sure could survive a good dunking.

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Zulu

06/30/2012 05:52PM

I found a regular standard plastic liner bag at the Canoeist in Two Harbors that fits perfect. I have seen them at Piragis and Red Rock in Ely too. They were around $4.00.

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JoeWilderness

07/02/2012 11:40AM

I am with yellowcanoe on this one. I am old enough to have gathered all the gear I need over many years. I am also way past plastic bags. Living here in Michigan, I find it much easier to keep water out of things than it is sand. Sand just gets into everything. Also,depending on the type of trip I am on, I am in and out of the packs so often that I want the easiest system possible.

I have used NRS bags (different bags & sizes) for over two decades and have to yet retire a single bag. Some glue or duct tape would make a quick repair in the field I guess (never have). I paddle some big water and lots of rivers and my bags see plenty of hard use.

Though I have many different types of pack liners for my CCS packs, I plan to get a couple like yellowcanoe uses this year. If I cut back on a couple of Coke Zero's and a dinner out with the wife, heck, one liner is paid for.

I do believe that Red Lake Outfitters gears all their clients with packs lined with yellow vinyl.....What else can I plug? Ha!

There is no wrong or right way on this issue. It is whatever works for you. Use what you have and get out there.

"You only have one chance at life, so make it an adventure!"

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alpine525

07/02/2012 11:58AM

So many great thoughts and ideas here - thanks everyone!

Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace. Dalai Lama

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Savage Voyageur

07/02/2012 12:14PM

quote yellowcanoe: "quote AndySG: "Based on the wisdom of the members here, I use contractor grade trash bags for less than $1 each. So far so good. You can find them at Lowe's, Home Depot, Menards, etc. Just make sure they are "contractor" grade."

How do you seal them and reseal them so they are always watertight? Is there a trick?

I figure after some three hundred days out of my Ostroms, which are watertight when tossed in the lake,the cost per night is minimal. And I expect to use those pack liners forever.

"

I use the ones made for Duluth packs that are 6 mill thick. The last trip in June I could not find so I used the 3mill ones contractor bags. Just roll and tuck in the top. They are made to keep things dry during a rain or sitting in bildge water. They would be ok for a while if swamped but really only made for nonemergency situations.

"So many lakes, so little time."

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billconner

07/02/2012 12:48PM

quote Zulu: "I found a regular standard plastic liner bag at the Canoeist in Two Harbors that fits perfect. I have seen them at Piragis and Red Rock in Ely too. They were around $4.00."

I'd say that was what I use - was $3.00 last I bought a bunch from CCO in Ely. They've never failed me - even in dumping in high waves.

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