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BWPaddler

05/22/2012 11:10AM

boats, please be sure sure sure to get a bill of sale written out and then signed by seller. MANDATORY if you live in Minnesota or ever want to paddle the boat in this state.

I bought a used canoe in the fall of 2010 and have been trying to get that document ever since the registration transfer was refused here in MN. FINALLY, after pestering enough people, the DNR approved the transfer without the bill of sale (18 months later). Just moments before I need to load it on the car.

The registration office said the worst case is when people have purchased at a garage sale and have no idea how to find the seller again. I had full name and address, but still unable to get that slip of paper despite numerous requests.

Anyway - as you shop, IF you shop, scribble down hull ID and registration (if any) and get seller to print and sign their name. Then you're golden.

Lesson learned.

Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. -Thoreau

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HammerII

05/22/2012 11:54AM

a lot of time an older canoe doesn't even have a hull number.

panic kills

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mirth

05/22/2012 11:57AM

Yup. Took about 10 days for me to get the seller of the canoe I bought recently off of Craigslist to get the necessary form taken care of so I could submit the title transfer paperwork for IL. If only she had kept the title it would have been a lot easier.

Sorry yours was such an ordeal but glad it worked out in the end!

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tumblehome

05/22/2012 12:01PM

I hate to say this but since I am not a fan of the state trying to regulate boats:

Give them as little information as possible. If you tell them it is of an unknown manufacturer and bares no marks of identification, then they have to issue you a license as such. It doesn't matter if it's an Old town or Shell Lake canoe.

Is this dishonest? Yup. Does it make sense for the DNR to regulate canoes? Nope. Does it help if your canoe is stolen? Nope.

As far as I know, there is no need to tell them you bough the thing anyway. I license plenty of canoes and have plenty of BS stories from the State and their poor job of maintaining licensing of boats.

Rant off.

Tom

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Basspro69

05/22/2012 12:02PM

Great information thanks for sharing .

" I want to know Gods thoughts , The rest are details " Albert Einstein.

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OneMatch

05/22/2012 12:30PM

The interesting thing about this is (as a Tennessean) I had the same problem here in TN. To make matters worse, TN doesn't require canoe registration, but since MN does I tried to register it in TN - without the necessary documents.

When I threw up my hands in disgust, I registered my canoes with MN (in Ely, by the way) and had no problems whatsoever. Guess because I was out of state it was easier.

Our tax dollars at work.

We all have to believe in something. I believe I'll go paddle.

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BWPaddler

05/22/2012 12:48PM

I think the catch for me was the previous MN registration.

I bought two canoes at roughly the same time - one from a MN resident, but who had never registered it. One from a WI resident who HAD registered it.

The MN one, with no PREVIOUS registration, they agreed they'd never know anyway if it had been stolen... so they issued a registration no problem.

The WI one, because it HAD been registered in MN and was current with the owner, they weren't ready to just swap out his name for my name... without a bill of sale. Now here 18 months later, with the RIGHT DNR person - I said look, here's the owner's name and address, but it's in WI and he's not answering my emails and it's been 18 months already... if I stole the boat, do you think I'd name the current owner and give you MY name and address? So they said, absolutely - have your local office call us. This law is supposed to prevent theft, not complicate your life.

I dashed on over to my local office upon hearing that... and the DNR dude was on "break" when my local office called him, but they still went ahead and issued me the new registration.

Major PITA, but so glad it's over. My bad for not collecting that at time of sale.

*** In theory, even if NOT for registration purposes, a bill of sale is a good idea. With Craigslist sellers usually requiring cash, what's to prevent them from taking your cash and still claiming theft? Bah, canoe owners would NEVER do that...!!!???

Anyway, I'm just thrilled as I was facing a trip with less than ideal boat selections and not enough portage pads and more weight, etc. etc. and now I can use this boat (legally) - wheeeeeeee!!!

Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. -Thoreau

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amhacker22

05/22/2012 02:40PM

I sold a boat to a guy that I bought from a WI resident. I gave the guy a Bill of Sale, and even signed his printed licensing sheet he got from the State of MN website. He STILL was unable to register it initially because I had not registered it while I owned it. He said the Clerk told him that I would have to register it first. That makes a ton of sense, doesn't it?

I called the DNR and explained it to a guy. He told me to tell the guy to call the DNR while registering so he can talk to the clerk and he can get it registered. I think a lot of this has to do with unclear rules, and a few clerks who don't really know what they're talking about and aren't inclined to help.

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serenityseeker

05/22/2012 03:12PM

also double check that the hull id on the boat matches the hull id number on the registration from the previous owner. I didn't check that when I bought my outfitter boat last fall and found out this spring that when the outfitter put the registration on my boat, he put the wrong one on. The hull ID (on the registration) does not match my boat. License bureau didn't like that. It took a phone call or two to get it straightened out.

They changed it for me, but how much you want to bet that whoever got the registration with my hull id number on it will not notice and so not change theirs, so now there will be two of us registered with the same hull id.

Fun, fun, fun.

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gutmon

05/22/2012 03:37PM

I borrowed an old aluminum canoe from a freind for a trip once and it didn't have current registration. I decided to do it for him as a payback for letting me use it. I went to the DMV office to get the tabs for it and was told by the (not very pleasant) worker there that the owner HAD TO SIGN the registration. One of the other workers there motioned me to come over to her and she said, "If the owner is out in the car with you, you could just take it out there and have him sign it quick" wink wink. I took the card out, "obtained" his signature and all was hunky dorey.

"The trouble with the world isn't that people know too little, but that they know so much that just ain't so." Mark Twain

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cowdoc

05/22/2012 04:38PM

A bill of sale is really quite easy to write up......even 18 months after the sale....wink, wink....

"What could happen?"

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cowdoc

05/22/2012 04:38PM

A bill of sale is really quite easy to write up......even 18 months after the sale....wink, wink....

"What could happen?"

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mooseplums

05/22/2012 04:55PM

Interesting note: I have registered 2 used canoes in MN in the last 6 years, and never produced a bill of sale. They never even asked for it...I just gave then the sellers name, and the boat's ID number. They transfered it without question.

"I am haunted by waters"~Norman Maclean "A River Runs Through It"

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forestmaven

05/22/2012 05:46PM

I have recommended this on this board before: If you are asked to produce a bill of sale, 'produce' one.

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DanCooke

05/22/2012 05:56PM

Someone has my Rob Roy registered in the State of MN cause they do not check if it is reported stolen. If they charge to register they should check it against stolen boat records.

Dan Cooke

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PineKnot

05/22/2012 06:48PM

I just purchased two used canoes and will be picmking them up in June and July....this thread is very helpful....thx.

Do what you can, with what you have, where you are -- Teddy Roosevelt

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Knoozer

05/22/2012 07:30PM

So how do you register a homemade knoo?

I just tried to get my 25 year old Sawyer registered in WI. Previous owner never had it registered. I bought it at a rummage sale. No certificate of sale. WI DNR person even tried to contact the outfit that has the right to the Sawyer brand. He could not help out. Finally this DNR person filled in the necessary information (Wink-wink). Imagine, a state government official using the "common sense" approach. I wish she was running for governor. Now it will be legal in MN.

God let Peter walk on water. To the rest of us He gave knoos.

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BWPaddler

05/22/2012 07:30PM

quote cowdoc: "A bill of sale is really quite easy to write up......even 18 months after the sale....wink, wink...."
Yeah, that crossed my mind - but when the guy quit returning my emails I started wondering if it HAD been stolen. So multiple calls to DNR later, I figured after all that stink I couldn't very well "produce" one. But I was certainly getting desperate enough to think about it!

Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. -Thoreau

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BWPaddler

05/22/2012 07:31PM

quote DanCooke: "Someone has my Rob Roy registered in the State of MN cause they do not check if it is reported stolen. If they charge to register they should check it against stolen boat records."
It was my understanding that they did that? Does that mean your boat got stolen? That stinks!!

Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. -Thoreau

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Canoearoo

05/22/2012 10:12PM

It all depends where you register it and how nice the person is. I have had no problems with some canoes and only one problem with one. Just drove to the next town over and went to the dmv and found someone who could help me :)

On that note one of my friends had a canostolenen and all this tracking hameantnt nothing for her. They never found her canoe

Life jackets float, you don't!

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oldgentleman

05/23/2012 06:01AM

We don't have to register canoes here in Michigan but I do mine cuz I use them in Minnesota. I had trouble with a duck boat that had belonged to my father in law. After he died I asked if anybody wanted the duck boat. "No, just take it."

I tried to register it and of course they needed it to be probated. I guess I knew that but wasn't thinking. So I went back a few days later and said I'd gotten it at a garage sale far away. They ran the serial number and then gave me the registration, since it wasn't stolen.

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bruceye

05/23/2012 06:59AM

quote mooseplums: "Interesting note: I have registered 2 used canoes in MN in the last 6 years, and never produced a bill of sale. They never even asked for it...I just gave then the sellers name, and the boat's ID number. They transfered it without question."

Same here.

Bruceye

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Trix

05/23/2012 10:33AM

Kelly,
Glad to hear you finally got this taken care of. Now you can relax and enjoy your trip! Take good care of float:)

Have A Fantastic and safe trip!

C-H-A-L-L-E-N-G-E: Do not let what you cannot do, interfere with what you can do.

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jwartman59

05/23/2012 10:53AM

i bought a used, valueless canoe in thunder bay, ontario several years ago. i told the official at the US customs about my purchase, he didn't care, just waved me through. at registration they wanted the name of the registered owner, i said there was none, the guy i had bought it from found it rotting in the woods on the english river and took it, as it was obviously abandoned. i was able to license it with little problem but apparently the DNR created a department of sending me a lot of letters, all of which i ignored. the final letter instructed me to ignore all the previous letters and that my license was now valid.
i just licensed a 1981 canoe, all they wanted was length, serial number and model of canoe, if available.

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BWPaddler

05/23/2012 11:15AM

quote oldgentleman: "So I went back a few days later and said I'd gotten it at a garage sale far away. They ran the serial number and then gave me the registration, since it wasn't stolen."
Funny!

Sounding like the various offices are hit or miss with their implementation of the guidelines. Guess I got "lucky" living near one that follows them :(

Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. -Thoreau

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winner

05/23/2012 11:23AM

I've had my wife write up a bill of sale. Simple as that. I give it to her and she sells it to me. Simple way around the bill of sale thing and in my mind this is not doing anything illegal.

Winner

"Buckeye Swim Team"

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