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      Permethrin- how long
 
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Last Visit: 10/25/2014 06:51PM
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keth0601  
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Photo Journal Gear Reviews
04/15/2012 10:35AM
 
So I was looking over the instructions for the sawyer permethrin as I'm about to do my first application for this year and notice that it says "through 42 days of exposure to sun and air" does this mean that if kept in a black trash bag it could last a very long time? how long do you typically go before you find you have to apply more? I wonder how it is that the "insect shield" clothing which is essentially just treated with permethrin can last up to 70 washings where the sawyer is only supposed to last 6?


"Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit."
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Savage Voyageur  
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Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/15/2012 11:19AM
 
I use this product every year. I wash my clothes when I return and the next trip I reapply the Permethrin. Works for me. I only apply the permethrin a few days before the trip.


"So many lakes, so little time."
AdamXChicago  
distinguished member(636)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor
04/15/2012 12:46PM
 
Not wanting to tempt fate, I'll apply the Perm a week before the trip. After drying thoroughly, I'll keep these clothes in a sealed plastic bag until needed.


Probably overkill, but I really don't want the bug nuisance messing with my trip.



AdamX
strom2127  
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Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/15/2012 12:48PM
 
last year was the first time I used it. I applied it to my hammock and clothes about a week before I left, and I never even zipped up the hammock during the days, and never so much as heard a buzz in the evening. The stuff works wonders! I wouldn't be able to say, nor would I want to try to see how long it remains effective from application though.


"Once more unto the breach dear friends, once more."
SunCatcher  
distinguished member(4332)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
7 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/15/2012 02:35PM
 
quote keth0601: "So I was looking over the instructions for the sawyer permethrin as I'm about to do my first application for this year and notice that it says "through 42 days of exposure to sun and air" does this mean that if kept in a black trash bag it could last a very long time? how long do you typically go before you find you have to apply more? I wonder how it is that the "insect shield" clothing which is essentially just treated with permethrin can last up to 70 washings where the sawyer is only supposed to last 6? "


If you apply the permetherin to the clothes, LET IT DRY, and then put them in a sealed bag. The Permetherin will last a long time several weeks. Why? Because of the lack of oxygen, you have created an anarobic environment, so theyre is no aerobic activity to break down the permetherin, and store out of the heat, and light, and it will last several weeks. I DOUBT the "insect shield" clothing lasts seventy washing, I highly doubt it. They may soak the clothe before they sew the clothing? Or afterwords treat it, but I see know way in heck that the protection would last 70 washings.


SunCatcher


Dad Always said "We don't Always catch fish...but we ALWAYS have a good time"
gunny  
senior member (69)senior membersenior member
Photo Journal Past Donor
04/15/2012 03:52PM
 
quote strom2127: "last year was the first time I used it. I applied it to my hammock and clothes about a week before I left, and I never even zipped up the hammock during the days, and never so much as heard a buzz in the evening. The stuff works wonders! I wouldn't be able to say, nor would I want to try to see how long it remains effective from application though."
Did you spray your hammock or soak it? Tarp also?
Don
strom2127  
distinguished member(716)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/15/2012 06:19PM
 
quote gunny: "quote strom2127: "last year was the first time I used it. I applied it to my hammock and clothes about a week before I left, and I never even zipped up the hammock during the days, and never so much as heard a buzz in the evening. The stuff works wonders! I wouldn't be able to say, nor would I want to try to see how long it remains effective from application though."
Did you spray your hammock or soak it? Tarp also?
Don"



I sprayed it thoroughly. I did not spray the tarp.


"Once more unto the breach dear friends, once more."
SunCatcher  
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7 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/15/2012 06:35PM
 
I would NOT spray the tarp...may damage it.
I would not spray the tent either...just me
SunCatcher


Dad Always said "We don't Always catch fish...but we ALWAYS have a good time"
KevinL  
distinguished member(2237)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/15/2012 07:48PM
 
I’m one of those who dilutes from farm supply stuff. I soak tent, rain tarp, and clothes for about two hours and then hang on the line and dry. Clothes go into a garbage bag until the first morning.

I have never done the rain fly on the tent though. It’s fun to watch a mosquito follow you into the tent as the just do a vanishing act.


Will be doing the same to my hammock this year.



KevinL
bbrown6057  
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1 trip report(s) Photo Journal
04/15/2012 11:26PM
 
So the stuff does work. I went to Backwoods outdoor center down the road and found the stuff and a can does 2 coats, 1 for me and 1 for her. For $9.00 a can I guess it's worth it.


"You have a cough? Go home tonight, eat a whole box of Ex-Lax, tomorrow you'll be afraid to cough."
butthead  
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4 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/16/2012 06:22AM
 
Sawyer Tips and Tricks


#6 washer deterioration


butthead



"Decades, tempered by tedium and existential dread" quote from William Brumfield
keth0601  
distinguished member(676)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Photo Journal Gear Reviews
04/16/2012 07:30AM
 
I've already read the sawyer tips. I was more curious about #7 where it says that dark plastic bags can preserve the applications. I am wondering how long it preserves it. Reason I'm wondering is I want to keep a full treated outfit in my truck in a plastic bag and I'm wondering how long it will last since it probably will only be subject to light use. Since they advertise 42 days of exposure I'm wondering if kept in a black plastic bag between, those 42 days could be stretched out all summer.


"Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit."
mirth  
distinguished member(1149)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
3 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
04/16/2012 11:06AM
 
quote keth0601: "I've already read the sawyer tips. I was more curious about #7 where it says that dark plastic bags can preserve the applications. I am wondering how long it preserves it. Reason I'm wondering is I want to keep a full treated outfit in my truck in a plastic bag and I'm wondering how long it will last since it probably will only be subject to light use. Since they advertise 42 days of exposure I'm wondering if kept in a black plastic bag between, those 42 days could be stretched out all summer."


The stuff breaks down in sunlight, so that's why they tell you to store treated items in an opaque bag. I think if you're keeping the stuff out of the light you should be able to stretch it all summer.
SouthernExposure  
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Photo Journal
04/16/2012 04:01PM
 
After soaking your clothes in the diluted solution, I found a tip online that would help. Lay your clothes out flat on black plastic in a shady spot with plenty of air circulation. This prevents the solution from draining away from one area of your clothes and concentrating in another as would happen if you simply hung it up to dry. Flip your treated clothes over periodically to help dry them out evenly. This does take a little longer, but you know that there will not be lightly treated areas where ticks are most likely to find their way under your clothes.

I suppose that storing them in the same black plastic bags would help prolong the effectiveness. I would made certain to squeeze out as much air as I could from the bag before closing it up with a twist tie.

SE


"Them Confederate snipers couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...." Union General John Sedgwick
CanoeKev  
distinguished member (398)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
04/16/2012 07:46PM
 
quote SunCatcher: "I would NOT spray the tarp...may damage it.
I would not spray the tent either...just me
SunCatcher"

Been using it on tent and tarp for years. No damage yet. What evidence do you have that it will damage a tarp?
kanoes  
distinguished member(23701)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
9 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/16/2012 07:50PM
 
quote SouthernExposure: "After soaking your clothes in the diluted solution, I found a tip online that would help. Lay your clothes out flat on black plastic in a shady spot with plenty of air circulation. This prevents the solution from draining away from one area of your clothes and concentrating in another as would happen if you simply hung it up to dry. Flip your treated clothes over periodically to help dry them out evenly. This does take a little longer, but you know that there will not be lightly treated areas where ticks are most likely to find their way under your clothes.


I suppose that storing them in the same black plastic bags would help prolong the effectiveness. I would made certain to squeeze out as much air as I could from the bag before closing it up with a twist tie.


SE"

nice tip. thanks.


time is a flat circle...
SunCatcher  
distinguished member(4332)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
7 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/16/2012 07:51PM
 
quote CanoeKev: "quote SunCatcher: "I would NOT spray the tarp...may damage it.
I would not spray the tent either...just me
SunCatcher"

Been using it on tent and tarp for years. No damage yet. What evidence do you have that it will damage a tarp?"



I have NO EVIDENCE, here is the deal, some permetherin's would be ok and some would not. Because of their FORMULATION. Some are OIL based and some WATER based. If you put an oil based product on a tarp or tent, the oil in it or emulsifiers will cut through the coating and render the tent or tarp useless in rain. SO make sure you know what type of product you have and what you are using it for.
If the LABEL states it's ok to do so, then it is more than likely a waterbased product and safe.


My Statement was because many folks are using 'stuff" from different suppliers and have no idea. So to be safe, I would not treat MY tent or TARP.


Not trying to be a know it all just want folks informed.
SunCatcher


Dad Always said "We don't Always catch fish...but we ALWAYS have a good time"
PINETREE  
distinguished member(5839)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
Photo Journal Current Donor
04/16/2012 09:58PM
 
I sprayed a little off deet on my tent last year and it was good bye coating in that area. Scary>


Chief Seattle: How can you buy the sky or the fresh air,the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us.
CanoeKev  
distinguished member (398)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
04/17/2012 03:45PM
 
quote SunCatcher: "quote CanoeKev: "quote SunCatcher: "I would NOT spray the tarp...may damage it.
I would not spray the tent either...just me
SunCatcher"

Been using it on tent and tarp for years. No damage yet. What evidence do you have that it will damage a tarp?"




I have NO EVIDENCE, here is the deal, some permetherin's would be ok and some would not. Because of their FORMULATION. Some are OIL based and some WATER based. If you put an oil based product on a tarp or tent, the oil in it or emulsifiers will cut through the coating and render the tent or tarp useless in rain. SO make sure you know what type of product you have and what you are using it for.
If the LABEL states it's ok to do so, then it is more than likely a waterbased product and safe.



My Statement was because many folks are using 'stuff" from different suppliers and have no idea. So to be safe, I would not treat MY tent or TARP.



Not trying to be a know it all just want folks informed.
SunCatcher"

I've always used the concentrated agricultural product (diluted of course), which I believe may have some oil, but no problems so far.
SunCatcher  
distinguished member(4332)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
7 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
04/17/2012 06:46PM
 
Who would of thought a little bug dope on clothes could get so damm compicated. For Petes sake.....
SunCatcher


Dad Always said "We don't Always catch fish...but we ALWAYS have a good time"
vickieh69  
distinguished member (293)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Photo Journal Past Donor
04/17/2012 08:19PM
 
quote SouthernExposure: "After soaking your clothes in the diluted solution, I found a tip online that would help. Lay your clothes out flat on black plastic in a shady spot with plenty of air circulation. This prevents the solution from draining away from one area of your clothes and concentrating in another as would happen if you simply hung it up to dry. Flip your treated clothes over periodically to help dry them out evenly. This does take a little longer, but you know that there will not be lightly treated areas where ticks are most likely to find their way under your clothes.
SE"



Thanks for that tip. I did not come across that one when doing my research.





"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." ~Democritus
vickieh69  
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Photo Journal Past Donor
04/17/2012 08:20PM
 
I used the Sawyer brand spray on solution 2 years ago. My treated clothes were used on a total of 8 trips to the BWCA. I did not retreat last season and the biting flys never bothered me but did others in my group. I did not store my items in a garbage bag and often times I would wear my pants at least once a week during the off season.


I am going the agricultural route this year and will soak our clothing in it for ~3 hours. I think I paid ~ $10.00 for 32oz of a 10% Permethrin solution (which diluted to a 0.5% soln. will yeild 50 GALLONS) vs ~ $15.00 for 24oz of the Sawyer 0.5% solution. Not only am I saving on the cost but also saving on the forearm from pulling the spray trigger over & over & over.......


Now I just have to figure out how to properly dispose of the solution when I am done?????


Maybe I can find a local farm that would be able to use it?


"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." ~Democritus
keth0601  
distinguished member(676)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Photo Journal Gear Reviews
04/17/2012 08:55PM
 
quote vickieh69: "I used the Sawyer brand spray on solution 2 years ago. My treated clothes were used on a total of 8 trips to the BWCA. I did not retreat last season and the biting flys never bothered me but did others in my group. I did not store my items in a garbage bag and often times I would wear my pants at least once a week during the off season.



I am going the agricultural route this year and will soak our clothing in it for ~3 hours. I think I paid ~ $10.00 for 32oz of a 10% Permethrin solution (which diluted to a 0.5% soln. will yeild 50 GALLONS) vs ~ $15.00 for 24oz of the Sawyer 0.5% solution. Not only am I saving on the cost but also saving on the forearm from pulling the spray trigger over & over & over.......



Now I just have to figure out how to properly dispose of the solution when I am done?????



Maybe I can find a local farm that would be able to use it? "



Put it in a spray bottle and sell it?


"Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit."
mirth  
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3 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
04/17/2012 10:11PM
 
Treat the shrubs and bushes around your yard where skeeters hide?
vickieh69  
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Photo Journal Past Donor
04/17/2012 11:09PM
 
quote mirth: "Treat the shrubs and bushes around your yard where skeeters hide? "


Thats a possiblity....but I have a little one. I know once the product is dry on clothing it poses no risk but I have not looked at the risk factors when used that way. I would have to research that. Thanks for the idea :)


"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." ~Democritus
CanoeKev  
distinguished member (398)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
04/18/2012 03:17PM
 
quote vickieh69: " I think I paid ~ $10.00 for 32oz of a 10% Permethrin solution (which diluted to a 0.5% soln. will yeild 50 GALLONS) vs ~ $15.00 for 24oz of the Sawyer 0.5% solution. "


Actually, 32 oz of 10% solution will make 5 gallons of .5%, not 50, but it is still a great deal. I usually use the 36% concentrate, which is even a better deal.
vickieh69  
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Photo Journal Past Donor
04/18/2012 03:26PM
 
quote CanoeKev: "quote vickieh69: " I think I paid ~ $10.00 for 32oz of a 10% Permethrin solution (which diluted to a 0.5% soln. will yeild 50 GALLONS) vs ~ $15.00 for 24oz of the Sawyer 0.5% solution. "



Actually, 32 oz of 10% solution will make 5 gallons of .5%, not 50, but it is still a great deal. I usually use the 36% concentrate, which is even a better deal."



Following the instructions on the bottle for a 0.5% solution is to mix .64 oz per gallon of water.


"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." ~Democritus
Castaway  
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Photo Journal Past Donor
04/18/2012 09:53PM
 
I think the instructions on the bottle misplaced the period. It should be 6.4 oz per gallon of water, which will yield 5 gallons of .5% solution from the 32 oz bottle of 10% solution.
Thwarted  
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2 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
04/19/2012 03:18PM
 
Best thread ever! I used the ag stuff last year and had not planned to retreat. Now I believe I will.
I used the excess last year to spray around the base of the house whch makes my wife very happy. I just poured it into a one gallon sprayer and went to work.


Thanks all.
vickieh69  
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Photo Journal Past Donor
04/19/2012 05:17PM
 
quote Castaway: "I think the instructions on the bottle misplaced the period. It should be 6.4 oz per gallon of water, which will yield 5 gallons of .5% solution from the 32 oz bottle of 10% solution. "


Thank you so much for questionin this. Truley. I would have diluted it down to a 0.05% soln and been cursing like a sailor when I was getting eaten alive. :)


"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." ~Democritus
pamonster  
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1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
04/20/2012 08:23AM
 
Sort of straying off the main topic a little but something important for anyone using these products to be aware of. Pyrethroids e.g. Permethrin is extremely toxic to fish so any materials it's on should be kept out of the water. I know there would be a big dilution in the lakes up there but always best to lessen our impact. Not to mention if you have tanks at home don't spray it around them. Same with cats, it's toxic to them too.
mpeebles  
senior member (51)senior membersenior member
Photo Journal
04/20/2012 09:28AM
 
Question. When you dilute the farm rated stuff (which I intend to do)to 0.5% do you spray the clothes as indicated on the Sawyer site or soak the clothes in the liquid? Tree planting and turkey hunting are coming up and I'll be putting this product/method to the ultimate tick prevention test. As an aside, I'm going to treat the turkey blind with it and see what the effects on the material are....not as expensive as the tent or tarp to replace. Thanks everyone!
CanoeKev  
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04/20/2012 11:36AM
 
I soak my clothes and spray my tent with a garden sprayer (mostly on the inside).
Jestrem  
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Photo Journal
05/07/2012 12:17PM
 
Does anyone use Permethrin on their poly wicking layers?


When the instructions say "inner layers" are they talking about any layer that is directly against your skin? Or are they talking about under wear?


The reason I ask... It seems counter intuitive when you may only be wearing one layer in warmer weather?


Then I read another contradiction about not putting on your hat or cap, but DO put it on your socks and cuffs. So, is the caution about sweaty areas?


Give me a hiking trail and a pack of supplies, and I'm a happy camper
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