On my last day my wife and I had the GPS out and it was giving me readings of my canoe speeds. It made me curious as to what average speeds are and top speeds are for canoes. For instance what is the fastest speed a canoe can travel?

Here are our speeds. I suspect we are on the slower end as I like to troll a lure while we paddle and I only canoe about 8-10 days per year. Also whenever we are on a lake with a lot of canoes we get passed a lot :) Maybe they are racing us :) and we don't know, but liek I said I don't consider us fast by any means--nor do we typically try to be fast.

Just a lesuirely paddle trolling with a mild head wind fully loaded canoe: 2.25-2.5 mph. this is probably our most common speed.

Strong head winds working harder: 2-2.25 mph

Travel with no wind fully loaded canoe trolling lesurely pace 3.5-3.75 mph.

Not trolling workign a little harder to get moving but not racing either, fully loaded canoe no wind or slight tail wind: 4-4.5 mph

Then we tried seeign how fast we could go for 5 minutes in a fully loaded cane in Inlet bay basically no wind: 6 mph was the fastest we could get it.

What suprised me was with a slight tailwind we were not paddling hard and felt like we were not moving at all yet our speed was actually pretty good in my opinion. I mean I know the wind makes a big difference but it changes your preception on how fast you are moving as well.

Anyway--most of the time I just paddle and have no idea what my speed is--I assume most are liek that as well but since I paid attention one day makes me curious and others have had to have checked as well.

T

I don't know for sure, but most of the time on Sag, it takes us 2 hours to get from American point, to the end of 3rd bay. We're loaded down pretty good, and have the big fat aircraft carriers. It's about 45 minutes to an hour just to get off the main portion of the lake before entering 1st bay.

It's about 2 1/4 miles from Am Pt, to the start of 1st bay, give or take. So fully loaded, without the head wind, we're probably in that 2.25-2.5 mph range.

However, one trip, with my brother and his 10 or 11 yr old son, Sag was blowing really hard out of the NW. We shouldn't have tried it, but decided to buck the wind anyway. Tyler is 4 years younger than my son, so they really struggled. It took us almost 3 hours just to get to first bay. With that monster wind, we must have been under 1 mph. I know that's hard to believe, but we considered going to shore, and walking our canoes down the shoreline. We were barely moving. When the wind took us close enough to shore to gage our speed, we were laughing at how we didn't seem to be moving at all. It wasn't really a laughing matter as the sky was low, it was raining, and threatening to pour, and facing 3 ft rollers, we had to dig our paddles in with all of our strength just to keep moving. We had to take a 15 minutes break when we finally got behind spam Island.

Since that trip, I've encountered similar circumstances twice, and both times we said "nuts", and didn't bother trying it. It's just not worth it.

We're base campers, so we spend the rest of the trip with little gear in the canoe, and are always a bit amazed at how easy she paddles that first time out UN-loaded.

When we're loaded up good, the kevlar guys just fly past us. They have to be going at least 1-2 mph faster than us.

I'm going to have to put the GPS on the wish list. It would really come in handy for the bdub, fishing, and hunting. Especially if I ever hunt the North Woods where a person could get seriously lost.

I think the mph info is helpful, especially to those that are trying to figure out how much water they can cover each day in some sort of loop. Thanks.

Canoe speed is one of those big questions that can often start arguments. Your speeds look right on for the average to me. There are many variables that are often overlooked. There are many threads on canoe speed over on the solotripping forum. Really knowledgeable people like Charlie Wilson post over there and you can get a lot of info reading those forums. Also, great canoe designers often write articles on canoe hull dynamics and speed - John Winters has a great article online called 'The Shape of the Canoe', that really explains a lot. In general, speed is determined by length to width ratio....with longer/skinnier hulls generally faster. There is a theoretical hull speed for all boats but generally speaking it is impossible to paddle that hard to achieve that speed (except for a very few professional type paddlers). Also the longer the hull, the more skin friction, so a given paddler may actually be able to go faster by using a shorter hull, if they cannot supply enough power to overcome the added friction/drag. One of the interesting things I have read is the effect of hull skin condition on speed. A scratched hull can easily knock off 25% of potential hull speed! And most tripping canoes can be pretty scratched up...Also, speed can be overrated. We all want a fast boat, but for tripping, sea worthiness in waves, turning ability and final stability are much more important to me. Others may have different preferences. Still I would want to paddle the fastest boat that also gave me the sea worthiness I want - who wouldn't? My tripping boat, a cedar strip John Winters Winisk, is extremely fast yet has the sea worthiness I wanted for trips. I did check my speed on my gps years ago and remember cruising at 6-7mph while not paddling hard at all. I did have my regular spring tripping partner in the bow at the time though and he's a pretty strong paddler. There are also other boats out there from other designers that have a lot of fans as well.

Hope this helps.

Moonman.

quote timatkn: "For instance what is the fastest speed a canoe can travel?"

If you are looking for an upper limit to shoot for, consider the gold medal performance in mens C-2 canoe racing during the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The winning time over 500 meters was 1:41.025. I calculate that to be 4.95 m/sec or 11.07 mph.

I've found that 3.5-4mph is a comfortable, sustainable paddling speed for a tandem in open water and with no wind factor.

quote thebotanyguy: "

quote timatkn: "For instance what is the fastest speed a canoe can travel?"

If you are looking for an upper limit to shoot for, consider the gold medal performance in mens C-2 canoe racing during the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The winning time over 500 meters was 1:41.025. I calculate that to be 4.95 m/sec or 11.07 mph.


"

Cool info. BTW I am not shooting for any speed. We are what we are at this point :) It just got me to thinking.....

T

quote Moonman: "I did check my speed on my gps years ago and remember cruising at 6-7mph while not paddling hard at all. I did have my regular spring tripping partner in the bow at the time though and he's a pretty strong paddler.

Moonman."

Nice average speed. We were paddling as hard as we could to get to 6 mph and maybe could sustain that for 5 minutes tops--then with a long rest afterwards :) My canoe is not built for speed---it is a big tub but it works for my needs---It is like the titanic unsinkable :) :)

T

quote thebotanyguy: "

quote timatkn: "For instance what is the fastest speed a canoe can travel?"

If you are looking for an upper limit to shoot for, consider the gold medal performance in mens C-2 canoe racing during the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The winning time over 500 meters was 1:41.025. I calculate that to be 4.95 m/sec or 11.07 mph.


"

And the remember that 11mph is an avg over 500 meters-- starting dead in the water. Just about certain they hit 13mph maybe 14mph at sometime during 500 meters. That's rippin!!

I like to travel solo at 3.0 - 3.5 mph.

I've had my Wenonah Voyager (solo boat, empty) over 7 mph on calm day.

Last year I had my Garmin out and was watching the speed as we canoed. We would travel at about 3-3.5 mph and out top speed loaded was 5 mph. I would not want to keep up the five mph for very long.

Another factor in speed is hull stiffness. Stiffer hulls of the same design will be faster. Strippers are the stiffest hulls out there. Exactly how much more speed you can get due to a stiffer hull I'm not sure but it is often mentioned as a factor.

Moonman.

I believe you when you say strippers have the stiffest hulls. You know more about it that I do. But how is wood stiffer than alum??? HAs to have something to with the buoyancy??? ,,, floating more on top of the water with less resistance??

quote Moonman: "Another factor in speed is hull stiffness. Stiffer hulls of the same design will be faster. Strippers are the stiffest hulls out there. Exactly how much more speed you can get due to a stiffer hull I'm not sure but it is often mentioned as a factor.


Moonman."

No, wood hulls are not the stiffest. Carbon Fiber is..You do not see racing canoes made of wood. You do see them made of carbon fiber. Sure stiffness is mentioned in racing circles as a factor.

Some strippers flex quite a bit..Depends on the thickness of the strips. That is actually a good thing. Drop a carbon fiber boat on a rock and it probably will get a ding. Drop a wood boat off your car at speed and it bounces and springs, and the damage is much less than what you are dreading.

I did that.

I would surmise that speed on the water is not important overall to the length of the day as much as efficiency on portages.

A yes, YC, you are correct on Carbon being stiffer. I stand corrected. I do agree as well on the layup determining stiffness or as I am meaning, hull flex. Lots of variability there between boat models/manufacturers etc. I should have said that I find strippers to be one of the stiffest layups around.

Moonman.

quote WhiteWolf: "

quote thebotanyguy: "

quote timatkn: "For instance what is the fastest speed a canoe can travel?"

If you are looking for an upper limit to shoot for, consider the gold medal performance in mens C-2 canoe racing during the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The winning time over 500 meters was 1:41.025. I calculate that to be 4.95 m/sec or 11.07 mph.



"

And the remember that 11mph is an avg over 500 meters-- starting dead in the water. Just about certain they hit 13mph maybe 14mph at sometime during 500 meters. That's rippin!!"

Yeah, and probably not sustained to 501 meters :).

My son and I averaged 4.8 from Swamp to American Point, hit 5 a couple of times

I'm guessing my speed has something to do with how many meltdowns I have from my 9yo bow paddler and whether or not I take my eye off the map to attend to said meltdown (thereby causing more paddling to get to same destination). Sigh. Speed is not my forte at this time.

Essentially soloing a nice short wide tub of a loaded canoe, I went 3.5 miles in about 2 hours last Sunday with a mild headwind and occasional breaks for motorboats to pass safely. 1.75 mph average was pretty pitiful, and yet the sun was out, the water was blue, the loons were calling, and I was NOT inside!

I really like to paddle fast with a good paddling partner. With most people I know trying to paddle fast just exerts a lot more energy and gets me sore and grumpy.

My son and I can really fly. Our friend Brad and I can exceed the 'no wake rule' on area channels ;).

Most of the people I end up paddling with are just barely competent.

probably because the wrong person is at the wrong end of the canoe.

Speed is a function of technique too..

The bow person is in charge of setting cadence and applying the engine power.

The stern keeps up with the bow cadence( usually has to get the bow to slow down)and steers.

Most long distance teams have the woman in back and the big guy forward using their pack distribution to still keep the boat trim. That is the biggest challenge

My Pack is slow, no matter what. I could wear myself out trying to move at a respectable speed.
My Whitewater X is at the faster end of tripping canoe designs.

Sailboats have a known measure for max speed- as explained by wikianswers.com. I can't imagine a canoe is too much different of an explaination?

Maximum Speed of a Single-Hull
Displacement Boat

Hull Speed = 1.34 x the square root of the LWL

LWL: length of the hull at the waterline.

Please note: this is the theoretical maximum speed of a displacement monohull and does not take into account the following criteria:

1. Hull Design - each hull's contours will effect the laminar flow, that is how smoothly and effortlessly the water flows over it. Every design has a certain co-efficient of drag, and depending on the hull, more or less inherent and induced drag.

2. Displacement - just like with a car, the lighter you make a boat, the faster you can make it go.

3. Sail Area/Displacement Ratio - this is a bit like the power/weight ratio in a car. Since the sails are pushing the boat through the water, the heavier the boat, the larger the sails will have to be in order to take maximum advantage of the hull speed formula. If two vessels have the same hull design and the same sail area, the one with the lower displacement will be the faster vessel.

4. Type of Keel - there are two main types of keels, full and fin. Full means that the keel runs the length of the underside of the hull and fin is just what it sounds like - a fin placed roughly amidships. Depending on the weight and shape of the keel the boat will move faster or slower.

If you want to know the hull speed of a particular make and model of boat, see if you can find a polar diagram. Polar diagrams, or plots show the speed of the hull at various points of sail and with various wind velocities.

The formula is true for canoes too. Placid Boatworks RapidFire has been clocked at 7.6 mph.

I can't get above 6. That theoretical hull speed has to be driven by horsepower. And I simply do not have the horsepower.

For smaller people longer skinnier boats have too much skin friction to deal with and they are better off with shorter boats with less skin.

A good touring boat ought to come in between 6-8.5. for L/W ratio. The Pack is short stubby and good for dabbling in remote ponds but will never be able to be driven to a good speed unless you are Hercules. Then you resort to your ability to run faster on portages!

It's interesting that a couple of people mentioned that 6 mph was a top speed. My son and I tried it a couple of years ago, and that's pretty much what we found as well. We tried it shortly after reading that moose can swim at 7 mph. Something to keep in mind. ;)

There is theoretical hull speed. Most weekend warriors cant get there. Some in good shape can overcome the bow wave resistance (considerable at hull speed) and go some faster.

RapidFire clocked at 7.9 mph by a racer. It is a 15 foot boat. Theoretical hull speed is 5.2 knots or 5.8 mph.

RapidFire is a solo boat.

In terms of practical speed, I found it interesting talking with the Wenonah rep at the Outdoor expo when we were discussing the MN II vs Champlain. His take on it was with same payload, same work effort, across a mile of open water the MN II might come out 50 yards ahead on the other side... of course with day-to-day use there's more that goes into it....