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Listening Point - General Discussion

wet feet or dry

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jaimed

06/10/2010 10:06AM

So, I'm at Redrockstore.com reading about "proper" canoe techniques when I read about how to get into and out of a canoe. They recommend basically getting in and out keeping dry feet.
I personally thought to myself NEVER would I treat my canoe that way! The canoe bottom would get all skinned up. Then he recommends pushing off and stopping by jamming the paddle into the ground. Ouch!!!
How do you handle these basic techniques of entry and exit for your canoe. I guess this is another reason not to buy a rented canoe.

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Jiimaan

06/10/2010 10:23AM

I've always been a wet footer but you'll probably get some spirited discussion on this topic around here.

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boonie

06/10/2010 10:24AM

I'm dryfoot...until I step in over the tops of my boots :).

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That Guy

06/10/2010 10:25AM

Wet

"The earth is being overrun by mankind and his machines. There will always be a need for quiet places that can only be reached by physical effort, skill and endurance." Bill Mason

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06/10/2010 10:27AM

Wet...but my canoe still has scratches. :(

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jwartman59

06/10/2010 10:30AM

wow. i visited the redrockstore.com site and had a quick peak at their recommended canoe landing/launching techniques. walking in a loaded canoe as the bow rests upon land? good idea if you are a circus acrobat. if this was a river with any current this could result in disaster.

souris canoes may be great but they don't replace good technique.

i have an old 17' penobscot that has seen more that it's share of whitewater. the bottom is scratched and worn to the point that i worry that the life of this boat is almost over. never once however, have i intentionally hit a rock at a portage landing. when the water is shallow we get out of the boat. always. same with kevlar wenonahs and needless to say my wood and canvas canoe.

i am used to taking long trips in the far north, where help, if even available, may be hundreds of miles away. we treat our canoes as if our lives depend on them.

and don't get me going about using a paddle as a ram rod. this is just ridiculous.

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mooseplums

06/10/2010 10:43AM

quote boonie: "I'm dryfoot...until I step in over the tops of my boots :). "

Me too I hate wet feet...just one of my "things"

"I am haunted by waters"~Norman Maclean "A River Runs Through It"

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hexnymph

06/10/2010 10:45AM

ooh, it's in writing it must be true.

My feet are getting wet just thinking about it. ;)

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Beemer01

Moderator

06/10/2010 10:54AM

Wet foot - always.

"You're not serious about wearing sandals on this portage.... are you?"

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airmorse

06/10/2010 11:02AM

I'll be wet footing this year. Former dry footer speaking.

"It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and you think you've got the stock market beat...but a man worth while is a man who can smile when his shorts are to tight in the seat", Judge Smails.

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Rich Mahogony

06/10/2010 11:10AM

Wet.

I don't have the patience it would take for a day of dry footing.

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Corsair

06/10/2010 11:19AM

Wet.

"Pack lightly, Tread lightly"

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Boppa

06/10/2010 11:33AM

Chota's - dry until late May unless I step into water deeper than anticipated.

Wet - Keens with socks from late May until Oct.1 or until water gets cold.
Boppa

"Yesterday is the past, Tomorrow is the future, Today is a GIFT, that is why it is called the present".

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sloughman

06/10/2010 11:36AM

Wet foot. Getting into dry shoes in camp is always a great pleasure to me.

"You guys might not know this, but I consider myself a bit of a loner. I tend to think of myself as a one-man wolf pack." - Alan Garner, The Hangover.

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Swampbuster

06/10/2010 11:42AM

Have no idea how you can travel without wet feet, especially if you are the owner of the canoe. If possible, I will try to keep the feet of my guest dry, but I am in the water all the time.

Paddle Faster...I hear Banjo Music!!

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ChazzTheGnome

06/10/2010 12:22PM

I am a dry footer until I go to get into the canoe for the first time, then my feet are wet. I also love the dry socks and shoes/sandels at camp.

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shr2807

06/10/2010 12:28PM

Wet footer. I think you can chalk all the statements on the Red Rock site up to sales pitch, and you would soon find out, that's not the best way to handle a canoe. They try to portray the Souris River Canoes out to be steps above every other canoe out there. I know they make a fine canoe, but I seriously doubt they are superior to Bell or Wenonah or some of the other tripping canoe mfgs. If Joe from Red Rock has anything, it's an opinion.

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salukiguy

06/10/2010 12:30PM

One of my friends would not step out to float the canoe over some shallows. Apparently he was wearing a pair of Rockport dress shoes that he needed to wear to work. The shoes were pretty well toast by the end of the trip anyways.

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theil

06/10/2010 12:39PM

I can't remember not getting my feet wet, on purpose or accidentally, so I'm a wet footer

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Mesaba

06/10/2010 01:44PM

Dry. Having a Royalex canoe has a lot to do with that though. Heck if I'm going to get my feet wet just to save the bottom of an indestructible tank like that.

"Time's fun when you're having flies."

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deanalika

06/10/2010 01:56PM

Wet..........Vibram 5 fingers....

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solotrek

06/10/2010 02:21PM

quote PJ: "Wet...but my canoe still has scratches. :("

Same here.

"It is in solitude, in quiet communication with nature that we reach most deeply into truth." Sam Campbell

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fishguts

06/10/2010 02:34PM

Wet Foot with quality Water Shoes

fishguts

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FullGo

06/10/2010 02:55PM

Wet Foot. With some of the portages I have been on, I don't know how someone would keep their feet dry without a lot of help.

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snakecharmer

06/10/2010 05:19PM

Dry footer. With good water proof hiking boots, I've found I can easily dry foot on 99.9% of the portage in the BW I've encountered without too much difficulty.

"Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after"
~ Henry David Thoreau

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arctic

06/10/2010 05:38PM

I used to spend 50 to 90 days on the water each summer, sometimes on canoe trips that were over a month long in central and northern Canada. I can tell you that if you wet-foot it all the time, especially on a long trip, you will have some serious problems with foot rot. Also, in cold water, or in spring/fall, you increase the risk of hypothermia.

I try to keep my feet dry whenever possible, knowing that my feet will be wet a lot of the time anyway due to wet terrain on portages. Either way, I put on dry footwear as soon as I'm in camp.

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BlackMagic

06/10/2010 05:41PM

Wet foot, unless I can step off of the shore with the canoe sitting in at least a few inches of water.

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onajourney

06/10/2010 07:06PM

Wet foot - same shoes as fishguts with smart wool socks

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Savage Voyageur

06/10/2010 07:08PM

I load the canoe completely in the water and have dry feet because I wear 18'' high neoprene boots.

"So many lakes, so little time."

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Camp Cook

06/10/2010 07:45PM

Wet

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oldgentleman

06/10/2010 08:02PM

I've always been a wet footer, but this spring I wore a pair of hip boots into EP 16. I was dry getting out to drag over beaver dams, I was dry getting out at the portages. I never once came close to going over my boot tops.

It still felt good to get out of the hippers and get into a pair of tennies at camp.

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Cedarboy

06/10/2010 08:22PM

Wet

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nursecarmen

06/10/2010 08:56PM

With how low the water is this year, the dry footers are going to have a tough time. When I'm tandem, I go wet, but I'll work the canoe to have anyone with me be dry.

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Craig K

06/10/2010 09:34PM

I tried to keep my feet dry the first year, they got wet anyways. Now I just wet foot it all the time.

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Merganser

06/10/2010 09:41PM

Wet. I've always used Chota Trekkers. I think I'm gonna try Salomon Tech Amphibians for trip this summer.

I have an SR Q17 but I don't abuse it (ask Mesaba). Scratches happen but the should occur when you are underway, not parking.

"That sort of thing is my bag baby."

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gbusk

06/10/2010 10:24PM

Wet and then dry shortly after. I did my last trip entirely in my Crocs and was amazed how well they worked out. They will be the only shoe I bring on a trip in the future. I was able to keep my feet dry most of the trip, but when it rained heavily for 3.5 days, I just walked in and wet footed with Crocs and Smart Wools. At camp or in the boat I'd remove the socks, put Crocs back on and feet were dry in 15 min. FInally found the canoe shoe for me.

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oldgentleman

06/11/2010 05:28AM

quote gbusk: "Wet and then dry shortly after. I did my last trip entirely in my Crocs and was amazed how well they worked out. They will be the only shoe I bring on a trip in the future. I was able to keep my feet dry most of the trip, but when it rained heavily for 3.5 days, I just walked in and wet footed with Crocs and Smart Wools. At camp or in the boat I'd remove the socks, put Crocs back on and feet were dry in 15 min. FInally found the canoe shoe for me."

I have 2 questions on the Crocs. How are they on a steep or rocky portage? How well do they do in shoe-sucking mud?

My son wore them on a recent long river solo and swears by them. I wear Crocs around the cabin and at home, but don't trust them yet on a long portage.

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Unas10

06/11/2010 06:11AM

All my trips except the last have been dry. One of the factors in going wet this year was anticipating crossing Snowbank in the afternoon. I got to thinking about trying to swim while wearing my tall waterproof boots. I did not like the prospect so I wore an old pair of running shoes and wool socks. It seemed to work out okay.

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bexley

06/11/2010 09:08AM

I don't like wet feet that much, but I go with what I was taught at YMCA's Camp Du Nord: Nothing touches the bottom of the canoe but air, water and bread dough. If I can hop out on a rock I'm happy. But if not, well, at least I have Keens.

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gbusk

06/11/2010 05:40PM

quote oldgentleman: "quote gbusk: "Wet and then dry shortly after. I did my last trip entirely in my Crocs and was amazed how well they worked out. They will be the only shoe I bring on a trip in the future. I was able to keep my feet dry most of the trip, but when it rained heavily for 3.5 days, I just walked in and wet footed with Crocs and Smart Wools. At camp or in the boat I'd remove the socks, put Crocs back on and feet were dry in 15 min. Finally found the canoe shoe for me."

I have 2 questions on the Crocs. How are they on a steep or rocky portage? How well do they do in shoe-sucking mud?

My son wore them on a recent long river solo and swears by them. I wear Crocs around the cabin and at home, but don't trust them yet on a long portage. "

OG, to be honest I have yet to encounter those two scenarios with my Crocs, so I cannot give you a field test review as far as that is concerned. I will say this, I used them the entire time in Woodland Caribou where our portages were seldom very steep for very long and although there was mud from four days of rain, it was not of the "boot sucking kind".

I did however ford a swollen stream several times, ford a flooded portage with knee deep water with large rocks that could not be seen but had to be felt for as I picked my way through. The Croc's rubber composition makes them stick to clean wet rock very well, but wet mossy/slimy rocks are another story, only felt sticks under those circumstances in my experience. I did fall at one point and a strap broke loose, but croc's seem to stay on my feet just fine both with and without the straps.

I did a little testing before this trip, I wore a Croc on one foot and one of my beloved Adidas running shoes and went for a 6.5 mile walk on the Superior Hiking trail and was amazed by my findings. The running shoes that I have loved so much and have owned five identical pairs of for the last five years, were not only not at comfortable as the Croc's, but actually caused ankle fatigue. The ankle fatigue was the biggest surprise and here is why I think that is the case. It appears that the Crocs float on my foot where the running shoe is tied securely, thus transferring torsional pressure to my ankle when stepping on a rock edge or tree root. So what I have learned, is that for me, shoes that provide ankle support actually tire my ankles much more quickly than clog type shoes. Now this may not be the case if I were wearing a higher boot like a snake boot that would do a better job of immobilizing my ankles completely.

So at this point in the Croc experiment, I have yet to find any negatives other than the fact that they are ugly and omnipresent, but when you begin to love a product that is great in function, but a failure in asthetics, the product becomes beautiful in it's own right.

I will be taking Crocs and nothing else on my trips for the rest of the season. It is just so nice to have light weight shoes on in camp and canoe where I seem to spend the vast majority of time on canoe trips.

Oh, and one more thing, someone mentioned that Crocs are slippery on your feet when they are wet, this is true, but with Merino wool socks they did not seem to slip on my feet at all. At this point I am happy to have found a canoe shoe that will work well for me on 99% of trips. They are not for everyone however, that is for sure. I would have to find an alternative for very cold water.

I will keep you posted of their future performance.

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kanoes

06/11/2010 06:34PM

im sure everyone on the trip would agree, minus some flooding and some tricky landings, that those were some of the easiest portages any of us have ever seen before.

that must be added to the equation also.

i think bigfoot is blurry. (mitch hedberg)

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gbusk

06/11/2010 07:06PM

quote kanoes: "im sure everyone on the trip would agree, minus some flooding and some tricky landings, that those were some of the easiest portages any of us have ever seen before.

that must be added to the equation also."

True, I thought I sort of made that point, but maybe I should have been more clear. I did encounter some pretty technical stuff on the Superior Hiking Trail with the rubber clogs and they worked well. I am trying disprove their functionality rather than take a stubborn "I found the best thing" approach. So if I end up with a broken ankle, the laughs will be on me and I am willing to take that risk for the community :)

Also, not only were the portages fairly easy, they were very pretty, which is one more reason to double portage.

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kanoes

06/11/2010 07:23PM

just being a realistic contrarian. :)

i think bigfoot is blurry. (mitch hedberg)

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bellolake

06/12/2010 09:01AM

I would have to claim both. I start out dry, but it never lasts.

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gbuskk

Guest Paddler

06/12/2010 09:52AM

quote kanoes: "just being a realistic contrarian. :)"
Contrarins keep us honest. :)

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rlhedlund

06/13/2010 08:17AM

Wet foot technique with dry feet due to good boots and socks in the BW last year in May.

Wet foot elsewhere when it is warm.

Life is good, living is better. Everlasting Life is Best! Pray for Us Amok.

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Freddy

06/13/2010 08:33AM

quote gbusk: "Wet and then dry shortly after. I did my last trip entirely in my Crocs and was amazed how well they worked out. They will be the only shoe I bring on a trip in the future. I was able to keep my feet dry most of the trip, but when it rained heavily for 3.5 days, I just walked in and wet footed with Crocs and Smart Wools. At camp or in the boat I'd remove the socks, put Crocs back on and feet were dry in 15 min. FInally found the canoe shoe for me."

I think Crocs are great when my feet are dry but when I ford a stream or just hike in wet conditions they slip on my feet and make simple walking a challenge. How do I keep them secured to my feet?

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul" John Muir

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Jeriatric

06/13/2010 02:22PM

I always plan on wet-footing it. I think that it would be impossible to keep one's feet dry on some landings, especially those where you have have 40 feet of deep muck before you can float the canoe.

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bradcrc

06/13/2010 03:19PM

dry.

if I could manage to paddle halfway up the portage, I would. I get as far onto the rocks as I can to make loading as easy as possible. I can always get a new boat. :)

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gbusk

06/13/2010 05:07PM

quote Freddy: "quote gbusk: "Wet and then dry shortly after. I did my last trip entirely in my Crocs and was amazed how well they worked out. They will be the only shoe I bring on a trip in the future. I was able to keep my feet dry most of the trip, but when it rained heavily for 3.5 days, I just walked in and wet footed with Crocs and Smart Wools. At camp or in the boat I'd remove the socks, put Crocs back on and feet were dry in 15 min. FInally found the canoe shoe for me."

I think Crocs are great when my feet are dry but when I ford a stream or just hike in wet conditions they slip on my feet and make simple walking a challenge. How do I keep them secured to my feet?"

They slip on my feet too, but when I had wet smart wools on they no little to no slip. Sorry to drone on, but I am excited to try them on some trickier portages, I think I have finally found my canoe shoe. I'll let you know.

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cliff355

06/14/2010 06:10AM

As an alumni of Camp Widgiwagen I was thoroughly schooled in their "wet foot" practice among others. Technique is nearly a religion with them and I became steeped in it. However, for me it was always difficult to reconcile the "Widgi Way" with some of my earlier observations.

Having seen Sig Olson (the "Listening Point" guy) land and launch several times, I can testify he was a "dry footer." Likewise, older Ojibway men I saw in the late 50's and early 60's kept their feet dry. These fellows had been born in wigwams and grew up with canoes covered in birch bark.

As they used to say at Widgi, there is a right way, a wrong way and the "Widgi Way," although I doubt anybody at that camp really believed there was any other way. Even so, my conclusion was that a woodsman will occasionally get his feet wet while landing a canoe, but the situation may not come up every day.

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QueticoMike

06/14/2010 06:49AM

Dry

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Ho Ho

06/14/2010 06:52AM

The canoe camp I went to in Ontario as a kid was just as religious about their techniques, including wet-footing, as it sounds like Widjiwagen is. They were around even before than Sig Olson, although they're gone now, so I'm glad to hear Widji is carrying on the tradition.

Despite having been inducted into the wetbooting cult as a kid, on my first trip to Quetico with David in 2001 we dry booted. We still loaded and unloaded the canoe while it was floating in the water, we just managed to hop out on rocks and get the gear out by contorting our bodies every portage -- including doing the dozen rough portages from Glacier to Louisa one day. You can do it most places for sure, but my observation was that it is a lot harder on your body because of the angles you're trying to pick up gear at, plus you're a lot more likely to take a spill as you try to balance on wet rocks at a precarious angle. So I went back to the old time religion of wetfooting.

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cliff355

06/14/2010 09:03AM

quote Ho Ho: "The canoe camp I went to in Ontario as a kid was just as religious about their techniques..."

That wouldn't have been Camp Owakonze would it?

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arctic

06/14/2010 09:11AM

I guided for an Ontario canoe tripping camp for four summers, and instructed for Outward Bound for several years after that. Like Widgi, the camp I worked for has one of the largest collections of wood-canvas canoes in the world, and that partly explains the wet-footing: it's time-consuming to repair a wood-canvas canoe, especially the type of damage that can occur from teenaged campers.

Like I said before, though, if you spend all summer on the water you want to keep your feet dry as much as possible, because foot rot and other skin problems really start to become a problem. Your feet will be wet enough, especially if travel the rugged Canadian bush outside of the parks.

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Ho Ho

06/14/2010 11:30AM

quote cliff355: "quote Ho Ho: "The canoe camp I went to in Ontario as a kid was just as religious about their techniques..."

That wouldn't have been Camp Owakonze would it?"

Yes it would! Did you go there?

arctic -- you may be right about foot rot if you're going for really long trips. however, I religiously wash off my feet and wash out my socks every day as soon as I get to camp, so I'm not sure they are any more prone to rot than if they were in a sweaty boot all day. but this would be something to look out for if you were going on a really long expedition. of course, some of those far northern areas have enormous lakes where you aren't portaging 10 times a day, which would make dry footing easier.

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cliff355

06/14/2010 12:12PM

quote Ho Ho: "quote cliff355: "quote Ho Ho: "The canoe camp I went to in Ontario as a kid was just as religious about their techniques..."

That wouldn't have been Camp Owakonze would it?"

Yes it would! Did you go there?

."

Never went there but I did go on a couple trips with a guy who did and he claimed to be following the Owakonze program. We carried food in wooden boxes he called "wanigans (sp?)" outfitted with tumplines - no straps. They were interesting but I didn't care for them much. I got the impression that Owakonze was pretty hard core.

I think both of those camps were founded in the 1920's so the founders were probably WWI vets who weren't too concerned about padded straps or hip belts. Or wet feet for that matter.

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Ho Ho

06/14/2010 02:02PM

Yep, Owakonzee used wooden wannigans carried just with a tumpline, and classic duluth packs with the leather straps and a tumpline (no sternum strap). It was pretty hard core, I loved it. And yes it was founded right around WWI. They had modernized the canoes - aluminum Grummans.

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arctic

06/15/2010 10:05PM

Back in the day we also carried wannigans with tumps, a tradition I have abandoned. But I still carry me canoes with a tump, an eastern Canadian tradition. I've only met one other tripper in the Quetico-Superior who carries a canoe with a tump, and he learned it in eastern Canada too!!

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dicecupmaker

06/15/2010 10:13PM

Very glad we had knee hi boots on this years trip. We crossed 4 beaver dams this year. Dry foot'in is the way to go wit boots!

Joy is a great teacher, but so is dispair. Wonder is a great teacher, but so is confusion. Hope is a great teacher, but so is disillusionment. And life is a great teacher, but so is death. To deny yourself any of those in any aspect is not experiencing life totally.

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brerud

06/16/2010 09:31PM

I have never purposely stepped foot in water deeper than my waterproof Danner boots. Having an aluminum canoe helps too..:)

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Arlo Pankook

06/16/2010 09:35PM

Wet, Wet, Wet! Sometimes balls deep if it expedites the logistics.

Hold that thought....fish on!

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serenityseeker

06/17/2010 12:02AM

I own a kevlar canoe. so WET all the way. If I owned royalex or aluminum, I would be very tempted to dry foot it at least some of the time. But those babies are too heavy to carry, so wet feet in Keens is the life for me. with dry socks and shoes for camp.

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