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cavemanwannabe

03/10/2010 06:15PM

My friends and i ware planning a trip from ep 16 to Iron but we had on of the four drop out so now we have to deside between the odd guys (me) having a solo canoe or kayak or go with a three person canoe. I can handle a canoe pretty well but I don't want to get left behind if the wind picks up. Also aren't kayaks harder to fish from? We plan on fishing alot and setting up a base camp we can make day trips from. What do you guys think.
Brett

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Merganser

03/10/2010 06:56PM

There are two problems with kayaks. 1) Its hard put a pack in one. 2) they don't portage well, unless you have a fancy carrier. I would never take a kayak on a BWCAW trip.

If you've had some experience paddling solo you'll probably be fine in the wind IF you paddle a proper solo canoe. You should also be able to keep up well enough as well. I recommend against paddling a tandem backwards or anything of that sort, even a 16 footer. I tried it on a trip once and had an awful time in the wind. Maybe I wasn't trim enough or just not drawing enough water but I wouldn't recommend this it to anyone. Last year I rented a pure solo (happened to be a Merlin II) and had a very pleasant experience. I got into just as much wind and had no trouble at all controlling the canoe.

I've never paddled a three person canoe. I could see where fishing might be tricky with three guys in a row. On the plus side there's lots of gear room and one less thing to portage. You certainly won't have to worry about controlling it it the wind. I'd recommend going this route if you're not sure of how you'd handle a solo.

One word of caution. If you paddle a pure solo you just might discover that you like it and find yourself looking for odd numbers just for an excuse to paddle solo.

"That sort of thing is my bag baby."

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gutmon

03/10/2010 07:01PM

In my experience, a three person canoe works better than you might think, Check out the SR Quetico 18.5.

"The trouble with the world isn't that people know too little, but that they know so much that just ain't so." Mark Twain

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kevheads

03/10/2010 07:08PM

had the same thing happen in 08. I used a solo Prism with a kayak paddle.I had no problem keeping up with the tandem canoe,even into the wind.The problem was trying to fish by myself in the solo.You are at the mercy of the wind.Trolling wasn't bad as long as it wasn't to rough,casting to shore was a pain.We tried fishing 3 out of a Q-17 but that wasn't the greatest either.

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cavemanwannabe

03/10/2010 07:25PM

Thanks all around for the advice

Merganser I was think the solo thing would grow on me. I'm kind of a loner type anyway so the idea of having to fish where my 2 friends want to when I KNOW there is a better spot just a little farther along would bug me. You bring up a great point about the one less thing to portage and the gear space. When it comes to the fishing though I think trolling would be alot easier but casting alot would be a pain. We want to travel fast the first day and we could take a break from paddling along the way, one at a time, to save some energy.

Gutmon we are going with the Vnorth for our outfitters and I have been looking at the Quetico 18.5. That what made me think about the 3 man thing instead of the solo.

Kevheads I was thinking trying to fight a fish in the wind by yourself and getting it in the boat might suck. If we do the net anchor bag thing and just put a lighter load in it would it work like a drift sock? We were thing about using the 2 man canoe for all three as well, after we paddle in with 2 canoes, but unless we are going to paddle to a point and fish from shore it seems a little crowded. Good tip on the Kayak paddle that would make it a lot easier I think.

So here is the next question. I know you can use an outriger type system and tandem the canoes for stability but is it really worth the trouble unless the waters rough or does it make fishing alot easier from a stable platfrom?

Brett

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Amok

03/10/2010 07:43PM

This is exactly the same question I've had, Caveman. One of my fellow paddlers is dead set on one canoe (3 person), one doesn't really care, and I would rather have a solo and a tandem.

It's a dilemma we haven't solved yet... good thing our trip's not until next year!

ps. just read your last post (it wasn't there when I wrote this, weird) If the wind makes it unsafe to paddle a solo, why would it be any safer to paddle a 3 man canoe? Just a thought.

Trust, but verify. The Lord will provide !!!!

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kanoes

03/10/2010 07:58PM

"So here is the next question. I know you can use an outriger type system and tandem the canoes for stability but is it really worth the trouble unless the waters rough or does it make fishing alot easier from a stable platfrom?"

if its that bad, stay put.

i think bigfoot is blurry. (mitch hedberg)

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gutmon

03/10/2010 08:09PM

The secret to fishing three in a canoe- drift fish.

"The trouble with the world isn't that people know too little, but that they know so much that just ain't so." Mark Twain

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Merganser

03/10/2010 08:24PM

I didn't fish at all on my solo trip. You certainly can't have one person paddle and the other fish so you would be more at the mercy of the wind. I've typically drifted when fishing tandem anyway.

"That sort of thing is my bag baby."

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Koda

03/10/2010 08:31PM

If the other two people won't agree to keep together with the solo, no matter who's going faster or slower, then get a three-person canoe. Getting separated can be a serious safety issue. And maybe talk about teamwork if the occasion arises. It might be good to see what's behind the person being dead-set on a three-person boat. There might be some interesting (and maybe unrealistic) ideas lurking there.

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dedgrass

03/10/2010 09:09PM

Went through the same tribulations last year and decided to go with a MNIII.
10 day trip, base camping for around 3 days between bases.
We fished out of the canoe and had a great time.
The advantages- easier portaging and faster paddling far outweigh the other options.
We outfit with VNO also. Fantastic people, excellent service, and reasonable prices.
Good luck and have a great trip!

Dedgrass

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cavemanwannabe

03/10/2010 09:44PM

Amok my concerns weren't safety more the wind pushing the boat around since there is only one person paddling and if you don't get the weight loaded right the front of the canoe will catch alot of wind. I agree with Koda maybe find out why the 3 person guy wants so much control over your trip. I think either will be fun but if some wants to explore the area a little having only one canoe will hamper that. But unless you have a means to talk to the other members of your party (radio, sat phone, etc) I'd agree before you go, never out of line of site while on the water too many things could go wrong.

Kanoes the tandem rig was just an idea to give us a more stabile platform to fish from and the added room of the other canoe.

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cavemanwannabe

03/10/2010 10:06PM

Dedgrass thanks for the info VNO just seemed like a good outfiters to us. Nice to hear from someone that's used them. What kind of canoe did you guys take out?
brett

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dedgrass

03/10/2010 11:18PM

Hey Caveman,
We rented a Minnesota III. A kevlar canoe. Not really too much heavier than the standard MN II.
Seriously, we had a great time in the boat and had absolutely no issues, even with gear load. In fact, one of our group (a pretty serious singer songwriter) brought in his little Martin guitar.

I thought about bringing in my banjo, but didn't want folks getting into the 'Deliverance' mindset!

Dedgrass

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old_salt

03/10/2010 11:40PM

I've fished three guys out of a SRQ 18.5' several times. We do a lot of trolling. The key is having two rod holders to get the rods up and out of the canoe while trolling. This gives more separation or spread between the lines, thus reducing the danger of crossing lines. When a fish hits, that person has more time to get the fish under control before it can foul other lines. Of course, if it is a big fish (and that's the only kind we catch), everyone reels up, when a fish strikes. The bow person fishes out one side, the middle guy fishes out the other side, and the stern paddler fishes out of the rear, with rod braced over one shoulder, usually the same side as the middle guy. The bow & middle paddlers do litlle or no paddling, depending on conditions, and instruction from the stern (who is 'in charge'). I also use a depth finder to read the lake, and try to keep the canoe within a given structure range. We also fish three different lures, until we figure out what they seem to be hitting. Then we might all use the same or similar lures.

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Bearfoot

03/10/2010 11:59PM

Brett,

I've done the 3-man canoe trip a few years back without any
major problems. The biggest draw back for me was the lack of
individual mobility. I personally would enjoy the tandem and one solo set up. I tend to paddle solo most of the time anyway. It allows the group more options and would offer each individual some solo paddling time.

I wouldn't worry about getting left behind...you could always tie a rope to the tandem and enjoy a tow. : )

Are there any chances of your group finding a 4th before your trip?

Good luck!

C

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gsfisher13

03/11/2010 12:15AM

I'm surprised nobody has suggested the obvious, post a note on this board and find a new 4th :) I'm sure you would have no problems with volunteers.

Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R.Tolkien

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pswith5

03/11/2010 10:12PM

The Caveman might have a problem finding someone who wants to go to th bdubs with someone his age!!!!!check his profile!

without the bad times: the good times wouldn't seem so good

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wb4syth

03/12/2010 07:57AM

Two years ago we were in the same boat (haha) - luckily my dad had a solo and I used that.

It almost made me a believer that I always wanted a solo. For me the fishing was better - I was able to go where I wanted and if I tangled/snagged, it was my own fault, but I didn't have to worry about putting my rod down every few passes to help the guy in the bow get unsnagged.

I also felt more stable - sitting in the middle of a solo feels more balanced than sitting at the end of a tandem.

I also outpaced the tandem while heading into a strong headwind for 4 miles on Ensign. I used a kayak paddle.

"I'm not superstitious. I'm a little stitious" - Michael Scott

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cavemanwannabe

03/12/2010 09:17AM

pswith5 Thanks for the heads up on my age whippersnapper.

gs, bear We've had a few offers already to round out our group but this is a Daddies trip. We have a four person party just one of us can't make it. I'd loved to have someone that has fished the area before, I think it would throw off what we want to do on this trip. We are a bunch of old friends that have gotten busy over the past few years and this trip is a chance for us to reconnect. So for now the group is set.

Oldsalt can you recommend a way to make rod holder for canoes. I'm one of those weirdos that would rather make stuff verses buying stuff. But it's hard to do without the canoe we are going to use. Has any one ever made rods holders? or seen a webpage on making them? Thanks for all the tips guys.

Brett

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charby

03/12/2010 09:33AM

quote gutmon: "In my experience, a three person canoe works better than you might think, Check out the SR Quetico 18.5."

That canoe is pure awesomeness. I will own one someday.

-C

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