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04/12/2009 11:05AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I think that i have finished my last winter project.











 
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04/12/2009 11:08AM  
Photos Explained

1) Kit completely boxed

2) Fire Starters: Tinder Tabs, All Weather Matches, Candle Stub, Strike Master

3) First Aide: Band Aids, Butterfly Closures, Iodine, Neosporin, Steri Strips (not in picture)

4) General Purpose: Mini-Photon Light, Pocket Saw, Button Compass, H20 Tabs (will be repackaged)

5) General Purpose 2: Thread & Needle, Mirror, Fishing Tackle, 20# Braided Line on Bobbin, Glue Stick, Aluminum Foil

The only thing I need to pick up is a Reynolds Oven Bag (Water container)
 
Savage Voyageur
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04/12/2009 11:22AM  
Nice job Mongo, Bear Grills would be proud of you. I like the Reynolds bag idea.
 
04/12/2009 11:27AM  
looks great.
 
lsvanderploeg
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04/12/2009 11:48AM  
Looks great! You might want to check if that compass actually points north though. I had one like that (made in China) that pointed south because the face was printed backwards. Although if you think you are headed north and you find yourself at the equator that wouldnt be so bad.
 
pork eater
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04/12/2009 12:11PM  
that would be one hell of a paddle though!

Nice kit
 
04/12/2009 12:17PM  
Does that saw really work? How bout 20 inches of duct tape and a small swiss army pocket knife? Sorry. What originally came in that tin? I love the hard case survival kit idea, plastic bags worry me.
 
kennk
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04/12/2009 05:23PM  
GREAT KIT!!!

Some things to consider:

o Whistle

o Some kind of basic shelter - even some large plastic bags are better than nothing

I tend to prefer very simple kits that are most likely to be carried EVERYWHERE - like what you built. While there are a lot of great web sites out there to help (first comes to mind is http://www.equipped.org ), the site that best carries this idea is http://www.outdoorsafe.com . Peter Kummerfeldt recommends the following items:

--Shelter material - plastic bag, tube tent, survival bag, cord
X-Fire starting materials - matches, lighter, sparker, candle
x-Signaling equipment - whistle, mirror, marking tape, bright fabric
--Adequate clothing for weather
--Sturdy knife - fixed blades are best but not always portable
X-First aid kit
--Metal cup - boiling water, cooking, digging
X-Headlamp w/ spare batteries - suggest one w/ constant on switch
--Food bars - though food is usually low on the list, it can help frame of mind
X-Water purification tablets
x-Folding saw - those wire saws are kind of ify
X-Compass - a good map is also vital

By the way, the other point P.K. often makes is to dress and gear up to survive a few unexpected nights outside - rather than to just arrive at your final distination. I like that.

A lot of that depends on your situation. If you're canoing, your canoe can be a fantastic shelter ... unless you somehow lose your canoe. In summer, adequate clothing can be as littel as shelter from rain and a light jacket - though insect protection can become REAL important.
 
TwoByGreenCanoe
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04/12/2009 06:33PM  
Superglue. Used for repairs of equipment and also great for cuts on your body.
 
04/12/2009 08:30PM  
Very Cool and Compact so as to always have on your person.(You may not have the chance to gather stuff up) The ONLY thing I could think to add would be a hanky folded 'Space blanket'.
 
04/12/2009 09:09PM  
Thanks for the extra ideas. I do have a whistle on my PFD. The only downside to adding more is that I would have to get a larger container or a separate one. It gets on thinking though.

Bumabu. I have not had the chance to test the saw. It is design for cutting through animal bone. The tin for the kit was a Cabela's gift card box.
 
04/12/2009 09:54PM  
Other Ideas for First Aid part of kit
(All Fits inside 32 oz Nalgene wide lid, Waterproof and all)
small scissors, very small tweezers, small needle, small fingernail clippers, antisceptic wipes, guaze, 4 sizes of bandaids, bandage tape, small container with ADVIL and Iburprofin, neosporin, WISTLE you can blow on a wistle a lot longer than you can yell...especially when hurt or injured. Q-tips, razor blade, small roll 2 inchs of duck tape,small tube benadryl cream, Tums in old pill bottle or film canister, chapstick, 1 ace bandage, 1/2 doz cotton balls in film canister. this type of stuff will ALL fit in the 32 oz Nalgene, and most of its already at your house somewhere. If you stop by a film developing place they will give you film canisters which work great for lots of things or like I said use an old pill container, inside the Nalgene, it all is crush proof and DRY. And in an emergency, you now have another Nalgene?
SunCatcher
 
04/12/2009 11:53PM  
I asked because I have heard bad reviews about those saws.....You might need to cut your leg off though! Great Kit.
 
kennk
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04/13/2009 08:55AM  
I wouldn't sweat the saw too much. Picture what you'll do if you find yourself unexpectedly spending a night or two or three outside alone. The priorities will most likely be:

1. health (psychological stress, traumatic and environmental injuries)
2. personal protection (clothing, shelter, insects, fire)
3. signaling (fire, whistle, mirror)
4. sustenance (water and maybe food)
5. location & travel (using a map, compass, GPS)

But then again, this all assumes that someone will come looking for your soon enough, so the real priority that tops these is PREVENTION (trip plan filed with trusted person, geared right & planning ahead for conditions, avoiding risks).

(1) So, thinking of these priorities, the most important thing is the mental attitude - the ability to just stop, sit down, and consider your alternatives.

(2) Next comes the first aid kit - to treat any injuries.

(3) Next comes personal protection. Once injuries are treated, you need to consider your own personal protection from the environment, insects, and the like. Are you clothed to survive a few nights? Can you provide shelter from the weather, sun, and insects? I tend to think that plastic shelters and insect protection is often the most overlooked aspects of survival kits.

(4) Fire is a funny thing in that it addresses several of these priorities, so it ranks high on the list. Its common to recommend carrying multiple ways to start a fire (matches, lighter, sparker, tinder, candle). It can help mental attitude. It can provide warmth. It can act as a signal at night and the smoke might draw attention by day. It can be used to boil and sanitize water. It can be used to cook food - insects, crawfish, fish, etc... I don't usually worry about cutting wood, since in most remote wooded areas hand-breakable wood is quite plentiful. Saws are low on my list, though a knife is important to help slit small wet wood and to help create tinder.

(5)In general, if you prepared properly, someone should be looking for you. If you stuck to your trip plan they should have some idea where you are. Of course the best scenario would be have a personal locator beacon, so you can actually place a call for help and provide an accurate location. Even without the PLB, if you properly prepared and followed your plan my advice is to not try to "walk out", but rather conserve your energy, stay safe and dry, and wait for rescue. Given that philosophy, the next critical thing is to signal those who are looking for you. By day the best signal comes from a whistle, a signal mirror, and/or smoke from a fire. By night the best signal comes from a whistle, a bright flashing (waving or blinking) light, or fire. Most of these signals will need to used when you hear rescue crews nearby. That is one reason why fire may not be on the top of the signal list - its hard to quickly start one to draw attention.

(6) You can live several days without water, but your physical condition will be impacted without it. That is why water is probably the next most important concern. Most experts say it is more important to drink questionable water when needed, rather than to worry about getting sick. Still, if you have ways to sanitize water, that is good. If you're near a lake, that's great. If you're near a river, be careful not to fall in and get hurt. Sometimes just getting water is tough. You might be able to use a bandana to sop up dew. A short length of straw can help suck water from crevices. The higher-tech approach is to cover a large leafy branch with a large clear plastic bag and catch the moisture from transpiration. Its pretty much agreed that solar stills don't produce enough water to be worth the work (and sweat) it takes to build one.

(7) I struggle to even mention food, since most folks can live a might long time without eating food. Still, if fish, insects, or other 'grub' are available, by all means, it will help keep the spirits up. Be careful not to eat unknown berries and veggies. Some can kill you outright. Lots of kits contain fishing gear, but be careful not to go overboard on that gear.

(8) As a last resort - or if you really don't expect anyone to come looking for you - is the issue of self-rescue. That brings up the issue of whether you are 'suviving' because you are lost, or because you are hurt. If you're really lost, then getting found could be tough - but not undouble. Still, in many wild areas you can walk in a straight for days and days without getting found - assuming the walk doesn't kill you. A good map of the area is more important than a boat-load of compasses in my opinion. Heck, you can figure out direction using the sun and stars, though its easier with a compass. A mapping GPS can literally be a lifesaver, especially if it contains critical life-saving waypoints. Some people see them as gadgets, but they can save lives IF used correctly. If you're hurt, then you'll need to be creative and persistent to get yourself reasonably mobile - you can't waste energy on poor navigation. Be careful. It may be more important to move to a location with a higher chance of rescue, than to walk into the nearest town (assuming you know where that is).
 
wetcanoedog
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04/13/2009 09:35AM  
here as some shots of the kit i carry in my PFD.i got a lot of ideas from the Equipped to Survive web site and reading the book about the two guys who were lost in the BW and Q.my main worry is losing the canoe and gear and having to get ashore with just what i would have on me..with all the trippers in the park i assume if i was on the shore someplace help would come within a few days.a fire to warm up after being in the lake..a shelter to stay dry..and comfort items like food and warm drinks were my main items.the photos were taken when i opened the kit at the end of the year to make a few changes the main one was replacing the foil sleeping bag with a Heatsheet bag.
all the food items go in a Swiss Army canteen cup with is sealed in foil,duct tape and a plastic bags..pea soup-tea-sugar-. in the other PFD pocket shelter items-a heat sheet to make a shelter roof and duct tape and twine to hold it together.a foil bag to get into .Off wipes to keep the bugs away,a fire kit and a few fishing things.first aid items as just band aids aspirin type things..a flasher and whistle are attached to the vest.a PLB,SPOT,satellite phone would of course be the best things to take but the chance of ever having to use any of this is so small that i don't feel they are worth the cost for use in a well traveled park like the BW/Q.-also i would sit tight.having done a bit of bushwhacking i know traveling around the woods would just add to the chance of injury...
a fall on the portage is of course my other hassle.being 63 and having a knee that is showing its age a fall is more likely than being washed overboard so the vest is worn across the carrys each time..
 
kennk
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04/13/2009 11:33AM  
Very nice. Is there any way you can give a list of the items in each picture??

I like your scenarios. Its often hard to convince folks - especially backpackers - that there may come a time when all that gear won't be readily available. History is filled with unplanned separations from gear for all sorts of reasons.
 
Big Ying
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04/13/2009 04:59PM  
nitroglycerine tablets. Even if you have never had heart problems it's smart to be prepared. It could happen. I keep them on my keychain.
 
wetcanoedog
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04/20/2009 01:09PM  

Kennk..here is a list of the gear in the kit..first on the
"food side"-a Swiss Army canteen cup,for this years trip i removed the tab on the side and put on a wire bail.under it four compressed pea soup tablets and one packed by itself to fit in as many as possible..this is from Knorr and you can only get it in Europe.under that a fruit and nut bar and four packs of sugar which i replaced with cubes of that same raw sugar to get more into the same space..tea bags-- way over on the left a fire tab that was fit in a odd space.a heavy plastic spoon from a MRE meal pack that has been cut down just a bit to fit in the cup.the three B-day candles were also put in to fit a tiny odd space and are to be used as fire lighters.next instant tea with sugar and creamer,i put that in for a fast hot drink.a razor blade-pain meds-two tea bags-two MRE coffee-two more sugar,also replaced with cubes-five tomato bouillon cubes,i picked these to use because they are not as salty as some others and two small salt packs.

all that is packed in the cup and sealed with duct tape and zip lock bags.on top is a fire kit with Army heat tabs,Bic lighter,candle stub.i arranged it so the fire kit would come out first without having to break into a larger bag.

the "shelter side" pocket of the PFD --a signal mirror which is not wraped up.then inside zip locks --candle stub-lifeboat matches-Army heat tabs--next to that a fishing kit with a lure i know works with a wire leader attached--hooks-split shot and about thirty feet of 12 pound line--Pike are a easy catch and would be added to the pea soup.
over on the left a "cut kit" with a betadine wipe,bandaids,aspirin. i would not expect any sort of a medical problem that i would any more than that for--three Off wipes and a LED light and on the bottom the items for making a shelter-twenty five feet of nylon line and duct tape..a foil blanket to make the shelter roof and a foil bag..this is all last ditch gear if i loose the canoe and gear and have to swim for it..in the BW and Q i assume i would be found by passer's by within a few days.no compass or maps are in the kit because i would stay put and make lots of smoke and blast on that whistle thats attached to the vest--
 
04/21/2009 11:21PM  
Nice kit Wetcanoedog
 
snowman
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04/22/2009 09:19AM  
This is a big one for me...My first trip in to the BW I got a puncture wound through my eye lid! The guy I went with (had been 9yrs running)never packed a survival kit before and gave me all kinds of crap...Until I got hurt. I managed to stay in with the the kit.

I would add and had on hand Liquid Lidocaine viscous type 5% if you can find it. This works as an oral or topical numbing agent. I know it's liquid but was damn nice to kill the pain when cleaning out my puncture wound! Try talking to a dentist it's what they put on your gums prior to shots...much stronger than Oral Jell.

also: Q-Tips, thread and needle for stiches, Triple antibiotic, and hydrocortisone...all made in small single use packs.

Hint: talking with and HR director, maintanence crew, or security department at work can lead to getting the items for free in small quantities from your work. Ask so they can be replaced out of medical supply kits! Also might save looking for a new job :)

YES we put a freaking stich in my eye lid, after flushing with a syringe of boiled water and iodine then packed with neosporine and bandaged! One hell of a black eye I'll look for pictures. I had an MRI of my left orbit upon returning home, Dr. said the stich was good too :) I put my stuff in a zip lock bag then compression sack followed by a quick vac in a heavy duty...I don't open unless emergency.
 
10/12/2011 07:41PM  
Who is bringing a specifice "survival kit" in with them these days? What is going in them. Why? Just to have it all handy in case you have to bug out and ditch everything else?
Just thought I'd bump this up for some new input.
 
luft
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10/12/2011 09:17PM  
Fitgers1, your timing is impeccable. I was just pulling items together for a first aid and ditch kit and trying to remember what all should go in. Log in to the site and --presto-- my problem is solved with this thread! Thanks!
 
10/12/2011 09:54PM  
one of the things I always throw in my kit is a contact lens case filled with solution and an extra pait of contacts (in their original containers). relatively small. I would hate to be lost with poor vision. Injury could keep one from being able to wear the contacts, but in that situation your vision would be poor no matter what.
 
10/12/2011 10:30PM  
quote fitgers1: "Who is bringing a specifice "survival kit" in with them these days? What is going in them. Why? Just to have it all handy in case you have to bug out and ditch everything else?
Just thought I'd bump this up for some new input."

my ditch kit is in my pfd pocket. when you are solo you must have one on you always. not in a pack, not bdb'd to the canoe...on your person. i treat my plb the same way...it never leaves my belt. i dont want to die on a trip. ive seen many posts on here saying "what a great way/place to die". no thank you, that would be a terrible way to go...alone. having those things handy tips the odds in my favor.
 
CanoeKev
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10/13/2011 11:49AM  
Some excellent tips in this thread. I think one point that most survival experts make is that food is generally not that important. The average human can survive for at least 45 days without food -- some of us much longer. In the BW it is not likely that you will be lost that long. Water and protection from the elements are the two most crutial things ro provide for in a real emergency.
 
tonyyarusso
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10/13/2011 08:40PM  
quote kanoes: "ive seen many posts on here saying "what a great way/place to die". no thank you, that would be a terrible way to go...alone."

Well, it depends on how. If a heart attack is going to get me, while off camping sounds great. But for the situations a survival kit would save you from - dying slowly and painfully of hypothermia, blood loss, ruptured appendix, etc. - no way would that be a fun way to go. So yes, survival kit for me.
 
10/13/2011 09:02PM  
I do not carry a survival kit, Never have and do not see much of a use for one actually. (I carry a first aid kit in the pack but not on my person)

A ditch kit is another story. I always have a knife and whistle on my vest, firesteel around my neck and PJCB's in a match safe in my pocket. I also carry bug stuff, head net and sunscreen in my pocket on the life jacket. I also dress properly for the conditions I will encounter. This is really all I need for an overnight or so if I get seperated from my boat and packs. I think the most important thing is to be able to get a fire going to warm up.
Hypothermia is the major danger we face paddling in the BWCA. I keep my spot in the pack, but if doing a major solo trip in the far north or the Q I would probably attach it to my vest.

Survival kits and all of that are just tools. Your head and experience will get you much farther than an altoid tin full of fish hooks, charcloth and asprin. The thing everyone needs to keep in mind is do not put yourself in the position to need it. Accidents happen, but a large percentage of survival situtations can be prevented with just a little common sense.

 
10/13/2011 10:36PM  
So in the big scheme of things, aren't a ditch kit and a survival kit pretty much the same thing?
Please excuse my ignorance.
 
wetcanoedog
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10/13/2011 11:18PM  
i think of a ditch kit as something for the short term,just the basics to keep warmer and dryer than without one.as you can see in my kit above i have something to cook in so i have a warm meal and drinks.those along with a foil bag to get into and a foil sheet to make a rain proof shelter and i would be good until the next pack of fisherman came along.a survival kit,which i have the makings for but don't need for the BW or Q is a long term bit of gear.a break down 22 and ammo,a small ax,bivy bag,lifeboat rations--you get the idea,i would expect to be really lost and out there.with the advent of the PLB and SPOT the old style survival kit is really a thing of the past and more a off shoot of the kits carried by the bush pilots and military.
what a lot of people see as a survival kit is more of a "possibles bag".a real survival kit should be sealed and untouched until needed.
 
10/14/2011 05:47AM  
quote fitgers1: "So in the big scheme of things, aren't a ditch kit and a survival kit pretty much the same thing?
Please excuse my ignorance."


For my purposes they are.
 
Kenny3
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10/14/2011 01:46PM  
ESEE Knives makes a good kit too. you can find it on Knifesupply.com. its a bit pricey but it is well thought out and well stocked. i keep one in the pocket of my PFD just on the off chance things get out of hand and getting ditch bag is not an option.
 
10/14/2011 02:02PM  
quote fitgers1: "So in the big scheme of things, aren't a ditch kit and a survival kit pretty much the same thing?
Please excuse my ignorance."



Good question: In my opinion, they are not. A ditch kit is very small and something you have on your person at all times when paddling or even when hiking. Idea is that if you dump in the middle of a lake and the wind blows your boat away or you wrap your boat in a rapid and end up a mile down stream you have the necessities to survive until you can retreive your boat, gear or help arrives.

A survival kit to me is what some folks carry to weather several days out in the wilds until help arrives. I figure that if I have my packs with me, I have no need for a survival kit because I have my full kit. Many survival kits are full of stuff that is not necessary for a one or two night ordeal. Most purchased kits contain fish hooks and line, snare wire, etc. Really? In a real survival situtation, trolling for walleyes or snaring rabbits is the last thing I intend to do.

If your ________ kit is too large, you will not carry it anyway and likely not have it if you really need it. Your head is the best survival / ditch kit you have and you always have it with you.

There are lots of discussions on survival kits, ditch kits or BOB's on Bushcraftusa.com. Great site that is a great resource for outdoor folks and is not full of the survivalists, zombie killers or armed christians that tend to frequent the hardcore survival sites.
 
kennk
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10/14/2011 02:36PM  
To me survival gear is the stuff you have with you when hell breaks loose - when the unexpected happens. Some folks like to have a well thought out package in a pocket that is not regularly used. Some folks like to spread the gear across several pockets and use it ofen. Both work for me so long as you buy an "extra" survival package and practice with it.

To me, for the money, you're not going to find anything better than the Personal Survival Pak Plus put together by Doug Ritter:

http://www.dougritter.com/psp_index.htm

It runs just under $60 and comes complete with everything EXCEPT:

-- a trustworthy folding knife with a locking blade that can be opening one-handed, though the kit actually includes a very well design tiny little fixed blade knife

-- a pocket-sized shelter - not a mylar emergency blanket - they're a joke

-- a small first aid kit

-- a bandanna
 
Hamm0cker
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10/14/2011 11:17PM  
+1 on the super glue! Anything that can multi-task is a good thing, and super glue is a huge bonus for repairs and especially, first aid. Small and light, it's worth the space.
 
10/15/2011 09:07AM  
As mentioned earlier in the thread, mental preparedness is greatly important. The simple fact that you put together a survival kit and thought about what you would do in case of an emergency significantly helps you in this situation. You should always dress for the elements as your first order of survival. After that, you do not need much to increase your survival chances. If you plan well and let people know where you are going and when you will be back, you should only have to survive for a few days. My kit is in a Nalgene bottle and contains the following (The "H" System):

1. Hypothermia is usually the most critical danger; Get dry, Get Warm: Heat Sheets Emergency Bivy Sleeping Bag, fire steel/waterproof matches and fire starter, cord for building a shelter, Gu Energy (calories = warmth)
2. Hydration: This is why I pack everything in a Nalgene bottle; you may need to carry your water. Purification tablets; you can filter your water through clothing and charcoal from the fire if it is real bad.
3. Health: First aid materials - pain reliever is your most critical item - it helps with your mental stability in an emergency. Your clothing can act as a bandage in most situations. butterfly strips, super glue, band aids, small knife/scissors. Alcohol swabs. I have a first aid kit in my day pack. Hopefully, I would never be with out that.
4. Help: I carry a blaze orange "flag" and a whistle to signal for help. Smoke is also a great way to signal for help. I have a signal mirror as well, but to be useful it needs to be larger so I just keep that in my day pack, not the bottle.
5. Handy: these are items that may come in handy but not necessary: fishing gear (it will help you pass the time more than it will help with survival. You should be able to maintain your energy with Gu Energy, or something similar, for a few days). Compass (in emergency situations, it is usually better to stay put and let help come to you. However, you may need to get yourself out), plastic bag for a rain poncho (the bivy sack can work for this too), saw (most situations you can break up small sticks for your fire)

A few items and a little thought can go along way.
 
10/15/2011 02:24PM  
after dumping this oct. on a solo trip about 300 yards from
shore i did not realize just how long it took to push everything
back to shore. thank god the weather was warm, but i still had
some trouble getting my body to function once on shore. already have a
ditch kit put together for next year
 
10/20/2011 10:12PM  
I have switched the Altoids container for one of the waterproof plastic cell phone boxes. it's a little easier to manage and you can see inside of it.
 
10/21/2011 12:34PM  
Great info all.
Thanks
 
HikingStick
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10/21/2011 07:56PM  
quote bumabu: "Does that saw really work? How bout 20 inches of duct tape and a small swiss army pocket knife? Sorry.

What originally came in that tin? I love the hard case survival kit idea, plastic bags worry me."


Les Stroud gave one of those little cable saws a test during an episode of Survivalman. It didn't last more than a few pulls. You're probably better off with a good bushcraft knife, or a multi-tool with a decent saw (not in you kit, of course)

The ones that really work are too big for a mini survival kit--they are the ones made with chainsaw blades.
 
HikingStick
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10/21/2011 08:01PM  
One reason why I lament the change from film cameras to digital cameras is because those little film cannisters are now hard to find. When I was a Boy Scout, we made survival kits that fit in the film cannisters. It had a little bit of everything in it, all the way down to a quarter for a phone call.

Survival kits are one reason why I like pants and shirts (and life jackets) with plenty of pockets. That way, I can always have one with me.

Those mint tins work pretty well for kits, but I'm fond of the small plastic boxes that started out with mini first aid kits in them (I think they are actually Band-Aid brand or Johnson & Johnson). They're available at local Wal-Marts and Target stores for around $1.00. I put any water-sensitive items in a zip-lock bag that then goes in the case. That way, the case gives some rigidity (crush protection), and the baggie keeps things dry.

Actually, I'm always looking for new survival tips and kit ideas. I'd love to see more people posting what they have in their kits. One of the recent ideas I've run across is to seal a fish hook in tape (starting with a layer inside out so as not to stick to the hook), and to keep it in your wallet/clutch/fishing license holder. That way, you always have a hook in case you end up in a survival situation.
 
kennk
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10/21/2011 08:29PM  
Mr. Stick,

You'll find no end of useful information related to surviving whatever here:

http://www.equipped.org
 
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