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Last Visit: 04/21/2014 02:37AM
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Rambler_Dog  
distinguished member (130)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Photo Journal
01/25/2009 04:16PM
 
What is PMA (Primitive Management Area??) permit?
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kanoes  
distinguished member(22397)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
9 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
01/25/2009 04:22PM
 
when you decide on which pma you want to enter and on what date(s) you just call the issuing station and have them pencil you in. its free.


...there were other times i thought i was mainlining the truth of the universe. (rust cohle)
PaddleAway  
distinguished member(859)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
4 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
01/25/2009 06:15PM
 
What kanoes said. They'll write your name, dates, PMA name & region in a high-tech notebook for reference when you show up.

What is a PMA permit? A separate permit for portions of the BWCA that are no longer maintained (no portages, fire grates, official campsites, etc.). From my understanding it's to keep the density of people down in these areas to minimize impact & to allow only one party at a time in any particular region of any one PMA. Getting into & out of them attains this goal better than any regulation.

If you haven't already, check out Beavers pictures. He's loaded maps of all the PMAs. Great resource.
snakecharmer  
distinguished member(6238)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
3 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
01/26/2009 05:48AM
 
Just to clarify: Anyone can day travel through a PMA without a PMA permit. You only need the PMA permit designation to overnight camp.



"Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after"
~ Henry David Thoreau
eglath  
Moderator
5 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
01/26/2009 12:39PM
 
Here's a PDF I made with the PMAs outlined: BWCA Primitive Management Areas

As already mentioned, you don't need a permit to travel through the area, only to camp there. Each Ranger Station has a three-ring binder for PMAs. Once you have your regular BWCA permit, you call the appropriate Ranger Station and sign up for the PMA. Each PMA is split into multiple "zones" and only one party per night is allowed to camp in each zone.

Sometimes there are former campsites that make good PMA sites...other times you just have to hope to find an opening in the brush. Sometimes there are old portages/trails between the lakes...other times you're just bushwacking (with canoe) through the forest.

PMA "portage"




PMA "campsite"



cheers,
eglath

Pictures?
kanoes  
distinguished member(22397)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
9 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
01/26/2009 02:00PM
 
thanks eglath!


...there were other times i thought i was mainlining the truth of the universe. (rust cohle)
TomP  
distinguished member(569)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Current Donor
12/05/2010 06:25AM
 
Is this PDF still current? A great resource!
forestmaven  
distinguished member(819)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
12/05/2010 06:41AM
 
Eglath: a testament to your diligence!
AndySG  
distinguished member(6103)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
12/05/2010 08:58AM
 
Thanks for Bumping this up Tom, and thanks to Eglath for providing the PMA map. I've been looking for such a map.


"I'd rather paddle in ignorant bliss than be arrogantly informed!" ~ Ken Martenson
Savage Voyageur  
distinguished member(8223)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
Photo Journal Current Donor Gear Reviews
12/05/2010 10:14AM
 
Thanks eglath, printed and saved for future trips. I have been looking for this.


"So many lakes, so little time."
eglath  
Moderator
5 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
12/05/2010 10:59AM
 
You are all very welcome...glad to see it's still of use!


cheers,
eglath

Pictures?
wetcanoedog  
distinguished member(3742)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Photo Journal Current Donor
12/05/2010 11:24AM
 
i've had PMA permits for my last four trips but only got back in twice.low water levels made pulling up a creek/bog impossible and another time i just punked out.when you get a permit expect to be read a long list of no-no's and the zillion dollar fines if you break them.not many people use PMA's,i was the only person on that page when the ranger wrote me in.


it's just a level trail thru the woods.
Amok  
distinguished member(4013)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
12/05/2010 10:40PM
 
Yes, the PMA maps are wonderful. I've got'em saved for reference. And I love the pics, just a 'glimpse' for me of what PMA life will be like in my future :)


Trust, but verify. The Lord will provide !!!!
jwartman59  
distinguished member(1958)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Gear Reviews
12/06/2010 12:57AM
 
i never even realized PMAs existed until last summer. i've canoed and camped in them for years. i guess this explains the crappy portages. i've always planned (if I have ever planned) my routes where i know i won't run into people. find a route with a lot of little creeks and long portages and you probably will be in a PMA.
deepwood  
distinguished member (303)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
12/08/2010 05:41PM
 
How do you determine which zone and which nights you will be in each zone?


When you are at the ranger station can you pick a different zone for each night so you are able to move camp throughout the PMA you have chosen?
I'm guessing that it isn't a very heavily patrolled area, so you would probably be fine. I'm just curious if your have to nail your trip down to being in a certain area on a certain day and being sure that you are not camping in a certain area on the wrong day. Having to keep a schedule would be kind of a downer. I go there because there is no schedule!


If at first you don't succeed, you're obiviously not Chuck Norris!
slackard  
senior member (82)senior membersenior member
12/08/2010 06:08PM
 
The ranger station will have a simple map outlining the PMA zones if you ask. (or use the pdf from above)

Each PMA zone is separate from the others. Each is surrounded on all sides by regular bwcaw lakes/campsite/portages. To reach one zone from another, you must exit that zone and cross regular bwca lakes/portages for at least a day or two to reach the next PMA. If you plan to enter 2 different PMA's on 1 trip, when you pick up your permit the rangers will record what days you plan to enter and exit each PMA.

Also in my experience, expect to spend 20-30 mins speaking with a ranger, while they explain the hazards/regulations/etc of pma camping...Yes, even after watching the "leave no trace" video.

If it weren't a crime, I'd recommend a machete--bushwhacking is no understatement.
deepwood  
distinguished member (303)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
12/08/2010 07:28PM
 
Once you have your regular BWCA permit, you call the appropriate Ranger Station and sign up for the PMA. Each PMA is split into multiple "zones" and only one party per night is allowed to camp in each zone.




This is kinda what I was wondering about. The zones inside each individual PMA.











If at first you don't succeed, you're obiviously not Chuck Norris!
slackard  
senior member (82)senior membersenior member
12/08/2010 09:34PM
 
understood. Ive only PMA camped once, and i was the only name in the 3 ring binder for that PMA for weeks and weeks. The rangers effectively told me I had the PMA to myself. And I definitely never saw a map breaking the PMA I was entering into smaller zones.



Inquire with the ranger stations about intra-PMA-zones, they will be your best resource, unless someone else here chimes in.
overthehill  
distinguished member(3523)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
12/08/2010 09:41PM
 
I called and requested info from Ranger Station this fall. It took a few days, but they sent info. Alot of extra rules to check out. Nothing drastic, just minimal impact stuff for the most part.


Not to Hurry-Not to Worry
deepwood  
distinguished member (303)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
12/08/2010 10:23PM
 
yeah I never saw them broken down like that until I saw the maps on this thread.


@ Overthehill- Thanks, I'll do that.


If at first you don't succeed, you're obiviously not Chuck Norris!
slackard  
senior member (82)senior membersenior member
12/08/2010 11:21PM
 
quote deepwood: "yeah I never saw them broken down like that until I saw the maps on this thread.




--edit-- i wasnt reading you right. i never looked past page 1 of that pdf until now. I see the numbered zones now. DUh! :)

Ill get to work adding these PMA outlines to the Google Earth KMZ i uploaded last week

jwartman59  
distinguished member(1958)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Gear Reviews
12/08/2010 11:56PM
 
okay, enough already. i am as liberal as you get. i cry when i see trucks stacked with killed timber, and station wagons with murdered deers tied to the roof.(kidding) but the rangers found a new way to impose more rules on our "wilderness"? huh? i'll be danged if i am going to get a special permit to camp in the super special PMA areas. i've been camping in them for years. even in non official campsites. i am pretending to be in the wilderness. i left my beers at home. how much more can you ask of me?
slackard  
senior member (82)senior membersenior member
12/09/2010 12:11AM
 
One down, 11 to go.




Thanks to eglath for providing the pdf with detailed maps i was able to overlay in google earth and trace.
boonie  
distinguished member(5354)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
2 trip report(s) Photo Journal Current Donor
12/09/2010 08:19AM
 
quote jwartman59: "okay, enough already. i am as liberal as you get. i cry when i see trucks stacked with killed timber, and station wagons with murdered deers tied to the roof.(kidding) but the rangers found a new way to impose more rules on our "wilderness"? huh? i'll be danged if i am going to get a special permit to camp in the super special PMA areas. i've been camping in them for years. even in non official campsites. i am pretending to be in the wilderness. i left my beers at home. how much more can you ask of me?"


I would ask of you that you not go in the one i'm going in with the proper permit so that I'll be the only one camping there that night. That's the purpose of it. Just like I don't want to find five other groups going in the one-permit entry I have the only permit for that day.
Amok  
distinguished member(4013)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
12/09/2010 08:58AM
 
I hate regulation like you do, JWartman. But I agree with this one. I'll be following ALL of the rules strictly (except for minimal clearing along portages --such as they are within a PMA --and I'm talking EXTREME HAZARDS removed only!) whenever I am enjoying a PMA :)


Trust, but verify. The Lord will provide !!!!
eglath  
Moderator
5 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
12/09/2010 09:11AM
 
quote slackard: "One down, 11 to go.






Thanks to eglath for providing the pdf with detailed maps i was able to overlay in google earth and trace."




slackard -- that's fantastic! will you post the kml file when you're done? I would love to have a Google Earth overlay...


cheers,
eglath

Pictures?
slackard  
senior member (82)senior membersenior member
12/09/2010 04:36PM
 
See my original post with a near-complete bwcaw KMZ here.


The links on that post do not yet contain my outlines of these PMAs. But I will update that post and the version number in the links once I finish with mapping the PMAs in google earth.

Last night I finished PMAs 1-6. several to go, but wont be long.



Amok  
distinguished member(4013)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
12/09/2010 04:49PM
 
Ok Slackard.


You haven't been here long, but I have a feeling that nickname's got a bit of sarcasm in it :)


Welcome to the addiction!
(bwca.com)


Trust, but verify. The Lord will provide !!!!
slackard  
senior member (82)senior membersenior member
12/09/2010 04:52PM
 
I have a feeling that nickname's got a bit of sarcasm in it :)

Would you still think its a sarcastic name if I told you I'm posting this from work?

Accurate is what I call it! :D

jwartman59  
distinguished member(1958)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Gear Reviews
12/10/2010 12:42AM
 
slackard, you don't happen to work for a Minnesota (name not mentioned to protect the innocent) county???? i did once, they should have a rehab program for us.


BTW, i used to be a geographic info systems tech / land surveyor. our computers had caused much of the global climate change in those days. my computer alone could have heated most of ely. OK, i am exaggerating, but you would be sweating on the coldest of Minnesotan winter days.
slackard  
senior member (82)senior membersenior member
12/10/2010 02:06AM
 
jwartman59:


Fraid not, I've never worked for any governmental agencies...


I'm just some schmo with too much free time.

btw, 2 pma's remaining in google earth. Ill knock them out sometime this weekend and post the new kmz
Amok  
distinguished member(4013)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
1 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
12/10/2010 06:49AM
 
quote slackard: "I have a feeling that nickname's got a bit of sarcasm in it :)


Would you still think its a sarcastic name if I told you I'm posting this from work?


Accurate is what I call it! :D


"



LOL! Put into that context, than YEAH! That's accurate! (once more, context rules the day!)


Trust, but verify. The Lord will provide !!!!
slackard  
senior member (82)senior membersenior member
12/14/2010 07:04PM
 
As promised, I've added the PMA zones to the Google Earth map. Download the updated version here:



http://www.polymetric.net/bwcaw_v0.1.1.kmz



(Remember Mac users, control click and "download linked as...")
Koda  
distinguished member(3039)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
6 trip report(s) Gear Reviews
12/14/2010 08:06PM
 
quote slackard: "As promised, I've added the PMA zones to the Google Earth map. Download the updated version here:
http://www.polymetric.net/bwcaw_v0.1.1.kmz


(Remember Mac users, control click and "download linked as...")"



You da MAN!! Thanks!
Rob Johnson  
distinguished member(718)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
2 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor Gear Reviews
12/14/2010 09:31PM
 
YUP!!! Add me to the thank you list Slackard. It is interesting that you could spot the PMAs in the old file just by looking for the big blank spots in the sea of red markers.


You are never lost, late, or lagging behind if you are on an adventure.
eglath  
Moderator
5 trip report(s) Photo Journal Past Donor
12/15/2010 09:40AM
 
quote slackard: "As promised, I've added the PMA zones to the Google Earth map. Download the updated version here:




http://www.polymetric.net/bwcaw_v0.1.1.kmz




(Remember Mac users, control click and "download linked as...")"





Thanks!!


cheers,
eglath

Pictures?
anacoluthia  
member (15)member
12/15/2010 01:11PM
 
Never been to the BWCA so can't say anything about PMA's. :)
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