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Bearskin Wilderness Outfitters
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 Boundary Waters Quetico Forum Gear Forum canoe paddle question Reply
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| Previous Messages: | |
| Author | Message Text |
| CharlieWilson |
05/03/2012 05:27PM Paddle fit and the under the boat J w/ bent. Here's the fit protocol for the ACA and it's FreeStyle committee. I'll admit meny will think it fits long, but if one wants to use cross strokes..... PADDLE FIT - Canoe Fitting paddles requires consideration of paddlers physical size, the canoes width at the paddler's station and the seating arrangement. With blade dimensions variable and wanting the blade to pass closely under the canoe, fitting a paddle is a function of selecting optimal shaft length to paddler torso height, stance in the boat and the boats depth in the water. For a general fit; with the paddler seated on a solid bench or step, measure from bench surface to the nose bridge. This measurement matches a general grip-to-throat measurement for bent paddles. Straight paddles for should be fitted with the throat to the hairline or an inch longer. Bents are fitted shorter than straights, compensating for closer location of power phase. Lower seating in the canoe, as in dedicated touring/ marathon hulls will need to bents to be fitted a couple inches shorter. The low stance generally works poorly with a straight paddle because we cannot reach far enough forward to get into the Winters window. Tripping loads usually sink the hull an inch or more deeper in the water, so paddles might be shortened. When a bench or step isn’t available, get a good grasp of the top grip and drop that hand in front of the body. The standing fit should yield the same dimension unless the grip hand lodges, or slips around the grip. The wrist needs be bent tightly. The concept of a J under the boat with a bent sounds a lot like an old, misguided friend. The J with a bent is a weak and pitiful thing, as the blade angle is already close to the end of Winter's Window. Secondly, the bio-mechanics of getting that blade under the boat; top hand way across the rail, shaft hand ~ at the hull's waterline is awkward and weak. Lastly, there is no advantage to having the correction under the hull; anywhere in the stern quadrants will do nicely. It is informative to contemplate that the J ending to the forward stroke corrects for miss-direction induced during the forward stroke by solo or stern, never the bow, paddler. Attention to 1. stacking one's hands to achieve a vertical paddle shaft, 2. Shortening the forward stroke to keep it inside Winters' +/- 15 dg window, which means ending at the knee w/ straight paddles, ending mid-thigh with bents, ie NEVER carrying the blade aft of the body, 3. Paddling parallel to the keel, see 1, 2, above, and 4. Paddling in cadence when paddling tandem, significantly reduces the need for J correction. Now if you like old timey paddles, and/ or prefer to carry that blade past your torso into a sweep, then correct for the sweep with a J, cool. Almost none of us get paid to paddle, and nobody much cares what we do or how long it takes someone to cover their intended distance or how efficiently they paddle. But, if you think of paddling as a skill intensive sport that can be done efficiently to improve your enjoyment, well, there are ways. |
| SunCatcher |
05/03/2012 05:07PM I like this paddle :) 
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| PINETREE |
05/03/2012 04:18PM That's why I like to watch other people why canoeing and seeing their canoe type and paddles used. After using a bent(I use a 54 inch) I just seem so inefficient when using a straight. Now on a river or creek I want a straight shaft. We use to use straight shafts as long as 60 inches,and that was way to big for a 5 foot 8 guy like me. |
| CrookedPaddler1 |
05/03/2012 02:19PM i know that everyone has their opinion on what is the best paddle! That is what is great about canoeing, if it works for you stick with it! Personally, I think that a vast majority of people use paddles that are too long and thus are not using their body mechanics to the best of your ability. A 54" paddle does nothing for me. My paddle is probably longer than that, but the shaft length is what counts. How far apart are your hands and what position does that put your shoulders and back in? I watch lots of people with long paddles that think that is making up for the fact that they are leaning back in back rest and not using their shoulders and back while paddling. I can't tell you the number of clients that I have had on canoe trips that show up with sore backs. And after a couple of days of paddling using a properly sized paddle and learning proper techninque say that they are amazed and their back has never felt better. I have in my aresenol of paddles many very nice bent shaft paddles. I can't tell yo uthe last time I put one in the water. To me canoeing is about the art of paddling. It is about the canoe being responsive to the slightest touch of your paddle. When I think I am learning to be a good paddler I watch a Bill Mason Video and realize that I have only started to scratch the surface of learning about canoeing and paddling. |
| coilcove |
05/03/2012 01:01PM WOW HIGH TECH I just paddle if it's windy I paddle harder. |
| Merganser |
05/03/2012 12:33PM A bent shaft paddle simply moves the catch phase farther back in the stroke. Whether that increases efficiency or not will depend on the paddlers posture, as noted, but also on technique. If you are not reaching forward to maximize the catch on a straight shaft you may well find a bent more "efficient", even if you kneel. I kneel most of the time. When I'm canoe tripping I almost always use a bent shaft because my experience is that it is more efficient for me. I'm sure that means my form is bad and I deserve a lecture on that. But I know I am not alone or solo canoes with skegged hulls would not dominate the market. |
| BWPaddler |
05/03/2012 12:29PMquote CrookedPaddler1: "With a straight shaft paddle you use the traditional paddle strokes (J-Stroke, Sweep, etc.) to control the direction of the boat. " Just heard a pitch at the Expo for more efficient Jstroke using slightly bent shaft (11-12 deg) and longer (54" or so) paddle. Theory was blade comes down and almost under the canoe, closer to keel line requiring less of a J for the correction intended. I haven't paid attention personally, but I will check next time I'm out with bent shaft. |
| schweady |
05/03/2012 11:42AM I've never had that much trouble adapting similar steering strokes to either straight or bent. But, then, maybe I'm just a paddlin' bumpkin. I like the bent, simply for what I feel is its main selling point: stays more vertical in the water for a longer percentage of the stroke. |
| shsylvester |
05/03/2012 09:40AM I started with a bent, now paddle straight shaft ottertails. I like the feel of the narrower blade in the water and the aesthetics of the more traditional design. Canoeing is about more than just transferring as much energy as possible to the stroke. If I were a competitive canoeist I might think differently, but with my "wrong" old style paddle I have no trouble putting in 20-25 mile days at 53 years. |
| PINETREE |
05/03/2012 09:16AM I love my bent shaft. |
| CrookedPaddler1 |
05/03/2012 08:28AM Personally I would stick with the straight shaft model. A vast majority of people (90%+) are not using the bent shaft properly anyway. With a straight shaft paddle you use the traditional paddle strokes (J-Stroke, Sweep, etc.) to control the direction of the boat. The advantage of the bent shaft is that it gives you a superior mechinical advantage in your power stroke. But as soon as you start to use the steering strokes, you lose that mechanical advantage. Bent shaft paddles were designed for the racing circuit and turning was done in the race fashion by using all power strokes and switching sides to make the canoe turn. An example would be if the canoe needed to turn to the right and the bow paddler was paddling on the right side of the canoe, while the stern paddler was on the left side of the canoe, the bow paddler would simply change sides (both paddlers now paddling ont he left) and the canoe would turn to the right. I perfer the straight shaft models because I prefer the beauty of the traditional paddle strokes and the control that you can develop over years of paddling. There will be just as many people out there that will swear by the bent shaft paddle, but in my opion, unless you are willing to adapt a race style paddling technique, you lose any advantage that the bent shaft would give you by using the turning stroke. I would also make sure that either way you are using a properly sized paddle. There are many ways to determine this but the method that I use and have recommended to many people is very simple. Sit down on a bench, grab a paddle that you think will fit, place one hand on the grip and the other on the throat. If both elbows are at a 90 degree angle you have the right sized paddle. This works regardless of whether you are using a straight paddle or a bent shaft. The size of the blade does not matter at all, it is the length of the shaft that matters. I use a traditional otter tail style straight shaft paddle. The blade is probably 30" long (only about 7" wide). If I remember right the shaft is 32" long. I can paddle all day long and never get tired. |
| tumblehome |
05/03/2012 08:20AM A bent shaft scientifically provides a more efficient stroke using less energy to push you forward with each stroke. It is logical to use a bent shaft paddle if you are out for a while otherwise you are wasting energy. I paddled a straight shaft for many years and reluctantly changed to a bent shaft on one particular trip. I will never paddle a straight shaft again. My explanations are referring to lake paddling. If you are doing rivers than none of this applies. Please remember that paddle length is not the same on a straight shaft vs. a bent shaft. Make sure to talk to someone that knows bent shaft paddles when you pick one out. Tom |
| moosewatcher |
05/02/2012 11:43PM +1 |
| walllee |
05/02/2012 08:16PM I feel less fatigue with a bent shaft at the end of the day. I do like a straight shaft when I am on a small creek or river with lots of sharp turns. It just seems it is easier to control turns for me. |
| CharlieWilson |
05/02/2012 07:55PM If you kneel, best to stick with straights. If you sit, best to try a bent. Long story, but it has to do with reach and paddle blade physics; the blade needing to be +/- 15dg to the intended stroke. John Winters' "t Shape of the Canoe" describes the physics best. I've added 5dg to the +/- 10 dg Winters window because hr rowing guys use 20dg and looking at the data, seems sensible to average the two opinions. On our knees, we can rotate and reach far enough forward to a catch, ~ 18 in in front of the knee; the effective, +/- 15dg part of the stroke ending at the knee. Sitting reduces reach and rotation, our +/- 15dg starts with a catch just in front of the knee, the stroke ending mid thigh. Note the stroke is a little shorter because we are lower in the boat and reach-rotation lessened. This allows a higher cadence, so yields more speed, especially against a wind, hence the marathon racers selection is always bent. The usual small blade surface area of bents re-enforces the higher cadence option without destroying out elbows. In the real world we need use both, because we can't stay on our knees or our sitz bones all day. Best to sit for flatwater, kneel for the moving stuff. This is partially because bent paddles, usually 12dg or so, are already close to the 15dg barrier where they lose effectiveness on draws, etc. Whitewater paddlers need strong maneuvering strokes and sometimes instant acceleration, so they tend to use bigger straight blades. Olympic sprint canoeists use straight or slightly bent paddles with large, often cupped blades, but that is a two minute sprint for glory from a high kneel position and not relevant to recreational paddling. |
| kanoes |
05/02/2012 07:54PM you really wont know if a bent is for you until you try one for yourself. |
| aholmgren |
05/02/2012 07:40PM I have always used beat straight shaft paddles that I buy/acquire used. I was gifted a straight shaft bending branches espresso plus recently, which is much lighter and nicer than any paddle I have ever used. I have acquired many straight shaft paddles in various sizes, condition, and by different manufactures over the years and never known anything different/better. Should I return my gift and trade it in for a similar type in bent shaft? as I have several straight shaft paddles in my quiver. I have never paddled with a bent shaft. What you you recommend? Do you paddle with a bent shaft? are are they better? Please reply with your comments, suggestions and opinions. |
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